BucktownAngler Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Does anybody notice the difference in small guides and normal sized guides? What exactly is the purpose of the smaller guides? does it improve casting accuracy/distance? I normally use a braid/flouro leader setup, but am wondering how the smaller guides will affect my casting with the knot i use to join the 2 lines. i like to use a 2 ft lead approx im shopping for a new bass rod, and really like the new Quantum Exo rod, so lightweight and felt great in my hand. Id like something 7ft MH any reccomendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC1 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) You're in for a treat. I just read an article about these last night. Micro Guides In a nutshell, it should feel better while casting, but don't be expecting to tie uni to uni knots to have a fluorocarbon leader. You almost have to exclusively use an albright knot just so you can cast past the knot. I don't own a rod with micro guides, hopefully someone else can help you out. Edited February 21, 2012 by EC1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 The smaller guides keeps the weight down on these super light rods. As to the rest. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Dont expect a noticable difference in distance but to me the biggest benefit is with braid you wont get tip wrap because just falls off the rod. You dont want any knots running through them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uglyfish Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 The micro guides will keep the line tighter, increasing casting distance. But also prevents wind knots and the line from looping around the rod tip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PainInTheBass Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Does anybody notice the difference in small guides and normal sized guides? What exactly is the purpose of the smaller guides? does it improve casting accuracy/distance? I normally use a braid/flouro leader setup, but am wondering how the smaller guides will affect my casting with the knot i use to join the 2 lines. i like to use a 2 ft lead approx im shopping for a new bass rod, and really like the new Quantum Exo rod, so lightweight and felt great in my hand. Id like something 7ft MH any reccomendations? I build rods with guides that are on the border of micro sized. For me, the big draw is the weight balance of a rod built with small guides. The smaller guides reduces the weight in the tip of the rod, which improves the feel of the rod IMO. The better balance can make the rod feel lighter and more sensitive. With respect to reducing line slap; that is one of the theories regarding guide placement on a spinning rod. The choker guide basically brings the guide train down to the size of guide that you will be using out to the tip. On a cast, the line oscillates around the spool as it comes off. The larger the guides, the wider the oscillation, and the more line slap you have, impacting casting distance. Smaller guides help to tame the line slap and improve casting. WHen picking guides, the rule of thumb I got with is pick the smallest guide I can while passing all knots/leaders through. Currently, I haave used as small as size 4 guides with 30 lb fluoro tied with an alberto knot to 50 lb braid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeytier Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just how tiny are these micro guides? I can't imagine them being too small to be able to fit a back to back uni through it (unless you're using thick line). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynmar Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I learned a new know the improved surgeons knot that I will be using. Ends up a smaller profile than a uni to uni. Great. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucktownAngler Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Just how tiny are these micro guides? I can't imagine them being too small to be able to fit a back to back uni through it (unless you're using thick line). Edited February 22, 2012 by Boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMc Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Ran across these post 2 posts late last year made by Dan Thorburn, product support specialist for Shimano USA. "We tested the micro guides and there is no gain in performance by using them. Fuji even claims the same findings. The only difference is the weight and cost. Because they are so small you need to use twice and many guides to keep the line from contacting the blank under a load. When you consider this there is no benefit when you have to use twice as many. The reason most manufacturers have switched to them I think is so they can make more money on the rods. Micro guides are half the price of normal guides. Yes it makes the rod lighter but now you have line touching the blank unless you do it the right way and double the guides. Then you have the same weight (maybe more with the extra thread and epoxy) and the same cost." and when stated that you get less line slap and longer casts with micro guides.... "I don't see how you get less line slap when the guides are that close to the blank. Fuji told us there is no gain in performance with the Micro Guides. I figure because they make them they would know best. I fished a Cumara CUC68M with normal SiC guides and one we had made with micros. I could not see any difference in casting distance or any gains in performance that made me say "Let's use these". Shortly after we had a meeting with Fuji and they gave us the news on the micros not offering any advantage. We have a very good relationship with Fuji and I trust their engineers. Guides on a conventional rod will not have any affect on line twist. Casting reels are not like spinning reels. Any line twist you will get in a casting reel is because of the lure you are using. Some just cause twist because of the design. " if i find more i will post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PainInTheBass Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Ran across these post 2 posts late last year made by Dan Thorburn, product support specialist for Shimano USA. "We tested the micro guides and there is no gain in performance by using them. Fuji even claims the same findings. The only difference is the weight and cost. Because they are so small you need to use twice and many guides to keep the line from contacting the blank under a load. When you consider this there is no benefit when you have to use twice as many. The reason most manufacturers have switched to them I think is so they can make more money on the rods. Micro guides are half the price of normal guides. Yes it makes the rod lighter but now you have line touching the blank unless you do it the right way and double the guides. Then you have the same weight (maybe more with the extra thread and epoxy) and the same cost." This is why I spiral wrap my micro guides. I get to use the same number of guides and eliminate line rub. I also get the benefit of eliminating torque on the blank and on the wrists when fighting fish. and when stated that you get less line slap and longer casts with micro guides.... "I don't see how you get less line slap when the guides are that close to the blank. Fuji told us there is no gain in performance with the Micro Guides. I figure because they make them they would know best. I fished a Cumara CUC68M with normal SiC guides and one we had made with micros. I could not see any difference in casting distance or any gains in performance that made me say "Let's use these". Shortly after we had a meeting with Fuji and they gave us the news on the micros not offering any advantage. We have a very good relationship with Fuji and I trust their engineers. Guides on a conventional rod will not have any affect on line twist. Casting reels are not like spinning reels. Any line twist you will get in a casting reel is because of the lure you are using. Some just cause twist because of the design. " if i find more i will post it. The following link is to a page from Angler's Resource - Fuji's exclusive rod component distributor in the US. http://anglersresource.net/TheoryoftheKRConcept.aspx This page describes Fuji's KR concept guides which are micro sized guides for spinning rods. It explains better than I could their theory on micro guides and the potential improvement on performance - including casting distance. There is a lot of talk in rod building that the reasons mass rod manufacturers have not as quickly adopted micro guides and spiral wraps and the such does not have as much to do with performance as it does producing a product for the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Ive been using a custom micro casting rod for 3yrs and I dont see a difference in distance ( there is no line slap with casting rods to begin with) but as for wind knots and tip wrap the micros are miles ahead of conventional guides when fishing braid,once you use one you wont like throwing a bc with regular guides they are that much better. They really shine if you pitch alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PainInTheBass Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Ive been using a custom micro casting rod for 3yrs and I dont see a difference in distance ( there is no line slap with casting rods to begin with) but as for wind knots and tip wrap the micros are miles ahead of conventional guides when fishing braid,once you use one you wont like throwing a bc with regular guides they are that much better. They really shine if you pitch alot. I have never seen any increase in casting distance personally either. However, here is the reason: in order to determine whether casting distance does indeeed improve, you must rewrap the exact same blank with the guides and test cast. Even though 2 blanks could be the exact same model, from the same manufacturer and lineup, each blank is slightly different. To eliminate all other variables, you need to wrap the same blank with the same components and test cast each with the same reel. Casting distance or not; I prefer micros for the improved feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hirk Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just for giggles I took another rod same length/action/reel/line to see if there was a difference but my point is that if there is its small so in the real world insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PainInTheBass Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just for giggles I took another rod same length/action/reel/line to see if there was a difference but my point is that if there is its small so in the real world insignificant. I agree. If there is any real difference, it is likely within standard deviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffw Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 i have 1 micro guide rod and to be honest with you i have noticed a big difference in sensitivity. Cheers Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucktownAngler Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 anybody care to recommend a good bassin' rod with normal sized guides? Lightweight is key, looking for something in the $100-$150 range will be using it mostly with senkos, booyahs (jigs), swim baits, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucktownAngler Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 prefer MH 7" range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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