The Urban Fisherman Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 Hey Gang - It's been a freakishly warm winter here.... I mean, a few days ago my kids went to the beach with their grandpa and found a baby turtle that was hatching?!?! Averie's been bugging the heck out of me to go ice fishing but we don't have any ice! lol I don't have time to sneak away for a few days so I think it's going to be her first year without any ice fishing.... We'll have to hope for a good spring season... That's my update - on to the house deal.... For a few years Ginny and I have been bouncing back and forth the idea of moving to Port Rowan, which is where Averie goes to school and where most of my wife's family lives.. Right now we live in the middle of nowhere, a good 20 to 25 minute drive to the kids school. Next year she's going to be going every day, and we have to drive her.... that combined with the fact that my in-laws are looking to sell their place (they live next door) and that houses are selling for higher than usual prices in my area right now has convinced us it's time to make the move..... Let's pretend our house actually sells..... lol the next problem is, we want a 4 to 5 bedroom house (3 kids and a home office). There's a limited market in and around Rowan because it's a small community, and when you go from 2/3 bedroom houses to 4/5 bedroom houses the prices skyrocket, usually because most of the 4/5 bed houses are HUGE or on the lake... way out of our budget... The only real affordable option for us is to build a smaller sq. footage house with 4 beds on the main floor and an office downstairs.. or just unfinished basement for now... Who's built a house? What are the things one should always do, and shouldn't do... Somebody please convince me that it's a good idea! lol Thanks again guys - have a great weekend! Cheers, Ryan & Family
Sinker Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 I've built hundreds of houses, but never my own. If you know a good builder, no problem. If you don't have a connection, I would keep searching for something already built. S.
danbouck Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 Without going into huge detail and from knowing you so well... buy an existing home
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Posted February 11, 2012 I've built hundreds of houses, but never my own. If you know a good builder, no problem. If you don't have a connection, I would keep searching for something already built. S. I know one good contractor - he's a friend of the family and did a great job on my in-laws place next door last summer... I'm just waiting for his quote to see if I can afford him... Without going into huge detail and from knowing you so well... buy an existing home Buddy we've been looking for 3 years and any existing homes with 4 rooms and somewhere to put an office are 300K+, to far from town, or are in need of another 5 years of reno's... I'm DONE with this reno stuff... when we make this move I'm moving into a brand new house or a place that's already been completely re-done inside and out... I want my weekends back... You know me... if there's anything that needs to be "done" in my opinion I'll throw away another couple of summers working on it... :wallbash:
danbouck Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 I'm seeing a couple on MLS that are in your price range and looks like the renos are done
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Posted February 11, 2012 I'm seeing a couple on MLS that are in your price range and looks like the renos are done we've seen them all in person... they're all a no-go... our budget is 200 to 220 maxed out.. I think you underestimate how picky I am when I say NO RENO's brother... lol There's only 1 place that I've actually liked, but the only option for an office would be to built a shop because there's no basement... which blows my budget out of the water haha I gotta work here - I'll text you tonight!
Twocoda Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 a 4 or 5 bedroom bungalow with an office and an unfinished basement is going to require a fairly large foot print (raising the cost of your lot)...you can do a raised bungalow/ranch...and locate two of the bedrooms and office into the basement (giving you a completely finished space as opposed to a empty basement)...here is a pic of my house as a raised bunalow that i just finished and we now live in (unfinished in this pic but youll get the idea) ....really its way too big for just the two of us (perfect for 4 kids and two adults)..if you have any specific questions fell free to PM me....the footprint is roughly 1400 sq for the house excluding the garage but gives you 2800 sq of habitable space ....there are many things you can tweek to a house that cost nothing in extras (eg garage door on the back of the garage...the money you save in stone and labour ...pays for the door and installation and is quite handy for outdoor patio parties when it rains or just putting your boat out back)
Twocoda Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 http://propertyguys.com/property/index/id/61702 this one might be worth checking out....i know its a little higher then your budget...but dont forget asking prices are just that.....ASKING prices Cheers
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Posted February 11, 2012 a 4 or 5 bedroom bungalow with an office and an unfinished basement is going to require a fairly large foot print (raising the cost of your lot)...you can do a raised bungalow/ranch...and locate two of the bedrooms and office into the basement (giving you a completely finished space as opposed to a empty basement)...here is a pic of my house as a raised bunalow that i just finished and we now live in (unfinished in this pic but youll get the idea) ....really its way too big for just the two of us (perfect for 4 kids and two adults)..if you have any specific questions fell free to PM me....the footprint is roughly 1400 sq for the house excluding the garage but gives you 2800 sq of habitable space ....there are many things you can tweek to a house that cost nothing in extras (eg garage door on the back of the garage...the money you save in stone and labour ...pays for the door and installation and is quite handy for outdoor patio parties when it rains or just putting your boat out back) http://propertyguys.com/property/index/id/61702 this one might be worth checking out....i know its a little higher then your budget...but dont forget asking prices are just that.....ASKING prices Cheers Wow! You're place looks AWESOME! good work! I love the garage door to the back yard.. my neighbor did that and I think it's great! I'll fire you a PM when I get a few minutes, but how wide is your place? The lots in Rowan are only 55 wide so we have to stick to a narrow house style... Did you do a bunch of stuff yourself, or hire a contractor? Thanks for taking the time to post the place from property guys... we've been inside every house for sale in rowan including that one haha The problem with that place, aside from not liking the layout, is we'd have to buy it and still build a bedroom downstairs right off the bat...so any money I save on negotiations would be spent on that.. also, one of the reasons we'd prefer all the bedrooms on the main level is that our kids are 5,3 and 1 so we just feel better about having them near by at night.... as for the office space, it'd be downstairs for sure... away from the hustle and bustle of the family so I can concentrate when I'm working... This is sort of what we've been looking at.. nothing to fancy, but meets our needs and would be affordable... I just don't really know how much effort is involved in a project like this... http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/house-plan-57147HA.asp
Sinker Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 Good luck building a 4-5 bedroom house on that budget. Maybe a 3 bedroom if your lucky!! Your just not going to find what you want for that kind of cake. If you want a house that size, you need to comprimise....or in other words get something that needs work, and do it over time. S.
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Good luck building a 4-5 bedroom house on that budget. Maybe a 3 bedroom if your lucky!! Your just not going to find what you want for that kind of cake. If you want a house that size, you need to comprimise....or in other words get something that needs work, and do it over time. S. We're not looking for a giant house, just a house that has the right layout for 4 beds and an office space downstairs.... The rough estimate I got from my father-in-law's friend who builds houses for a living is $120 a sq. foot and we're looking at building a 1200ish sq. foot house.... if he isn't to much over his estimate once he get's back to me it's approx. 150,000 or so for the house + 35,000 for the lots in rowan, which at a ROUGH total of 185,000 gives me a buffer zone of 30,000 for unplanned expenses... They're building and selling brand new 1200 to 1400 sq. foot houses in the same subdivision right now for 185,000 to 230,00 I bought my current house for $130,00 and spent 70,000 and the last four and half years of my life renovating it... I'm not doing it again lol Edited February 11, 2012 by The Urban Fisherman
Sinker Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 Dont forget when you build you have landscaping, water systems, septic bed, driveways, power hook ups.....the list never ends, trust me. There is always something. How far do you have to run power? How deep to drill a well? How long is your driveway? Sooooo many things to consider I had my own company for 12 years building homes, both turn key, custom, and subdivisions. I've seen all kinds of people lose thier shirt thinking they could build a house on the cheap. If you don't know what your doing, trust me when I say this, buy a house that is already built.....you don't want the headaches!! Primary reason I got out of that business!!! Good luck! S.
Twocoda Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 Wow! You're place looks AWESOME! good work! I love the garage door to the back yard.. but how wide is your place? The lots in Rowan are only 55 wide so we have to stick to a narrow house style... Did you do a bunch of stuff yourself, or hire a contractor? Thanks Ryan....The foundation for the basement is 26' wide for the house then 9'wide for the vestibule( where the front door is) and the garage is 23' wide....so this paticular one wouldnt fit on a 55 wide lot...but i have adapted this to a 59' foot wide lot before...at the garage and vestibules expence....but i adjusted to go deeper with both to compansate...and left the habitable space the same to the print ...
Twocoda Posted February 11, 2012 Report Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Sinker raises some very valid points....if your going into a subdivision utilities and sewer will be all there at the lot line but this is where you need to compare prices of a lot in and out of the subdivision...i just seen a 1.2 acre parcel in your town for 62....compare that to the subdivision...and go from there....to me ...room for kids to play out weighs the convenience of utilities at a lot line... http://propertyguys.com/property/index/id/29466 Edited February 11, 2012 by Twocoda
HTHM Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 If you want your kids to grow up as citidots, move to town. If you want them to grow up loving the outdoors stay in a rural area. Even small towns have bad influences. Just my two cents. You just spent a ton of time and sweat getting your house the way you want and now someone else is going to have the benefit of all the effort you put in?
Billy Bob Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 Built a house (myself), bought a house and almost had a custom house built for me....(boy am I glad that didn't happen) It took me almost 4 years to build my own summer home....but that was because it was 75 miles away......and did most of the work on weekends... but like Sinker has said....there are a LOT of hidden cost and HEADACHES to consider....when you have a family it's HARD to do....now if you're talking about having someone build you a custom home....well then....THEY should be the one you should be talking to....not us.. I will say, it is almost ALWAYS cheaper to buy a existing home then build one like it....LABOR and MATERIALS are a lot more now then back then....and most older homes were actually built better then many of the new cookie cutter homes that are being built today. Get a older home and renovated it slowly and or add on to a existing home to make it fit your large family. GOOD LUCK, Bob
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Posted February 12, 2012 Dont forget when you build you have landscaping, water systems, septic bed, driveways, power hook ups.....the list never ends, trust me. There is always something. How far do you have to run power? How deep to drill a well? How long is your driveway? Sooooo many things to consider I had my own company for 12 years building homes, both turn key, custom, and subdivisions. I've seen all kinds of people lose thier shirt thinking they could build a house on the cheap. If you don't know what your doing, trust me when I say this, buy a house that is already built.....you don't want the headaches!! Primary reason I got out of that business!!! Good luck! S. Thanks sinker! Much appreciated!! The lots do have water electricity and gas at the lot line, and in my situation I'd be getting a quote on the final build as I'll be buying the house after its built rather than paying in increments.... But I completely understand where you're coming from and fully expect there to be unplanned expenses... Thanks for pointing that stuff out and if anything else comes to mind feel free to let me know! Thanks Ryan....The foundation for the basement is 26' wide for the house then 9'wide for the vestibule( where the front door is) and the garage is 23' wide....so this paticular one wouldnt fit on a 55 wide lot...but i have adapted this to a 59' foot wide lot before...at the garage and vestibules expence....but i adjusted to go deeper with both to compansate...and left the habitable space the same to the print ... Thanks twocoda, there are some lots that are listed at 70 feet wide... I'll look into them properly once we get our house listed... Sinker raises some very valid points....if your going into a subdivision utilities and sewer will be all there at the lot line but this is where you need to compare prices of a lot in and out of the subdivision...i just seen a 1.2 acre parcel in your town for 62....compare that to the subdivision...and go from there....to me ...room for kids to play out weighs the convenience of utilities at a lot line... http://propertyguys.com/property/index/id/29466 1.2 acres IN Rowan?!? Send me the link!!! Haha I agree with the space for the kids but I have to make sure I keep it affordable at the same time... The upside is that the boat docks are about 500m from the lots and the park is within eye shot.... School is walking distance as well... If you want your kids to grow up as citidots, move to town. If you want them to grow up loving the outdoors stay in a rural area. Even small towns have bad influences. Just my two cents. You just spent a ton of time and sweat getting your house the way you want and now someone else is going to have the benefit of all the effort you put in? I know where you're coming from HTHM I grew up in Sudbury which has a population of 165,000 and most of my friends from university were from big cities like Toronto and clueless haha Port Rowan is "town" to us but really it's just a little lakeside tourist community that has a permanent population of 790.... a little less then the amount of kids I had in my high school... lol I love the interior of my house but I really don't have any attachment to it or the location... When I go away for a week for work and I pull in the driveway, I'm excited to see Ginny and the kids but kinda bummed out to be back in "frogmore" which is the hamlet I live in..... When we go to Rowan were always so stolked and never want to go home... 2 hours a day driving the kids to and from school, 25 minutes for groceries or anything for that matter is a bit of a pain with 3 little ones... Some of Averie's friends from school live 40 minutes away because they're on the far side of Rowan.... In town there's a grocery store, parks, library, home hardware, doctors office, shops, marinas, longpoint beach the list goes on.... It's just where we want to... Not to mention real high speed Internet would be good for my job!
DRIFTER_016 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 Buddy we've been looking for 3 years and any existing homes with 4 rooms and somewhere to put an office are 300K+, Don't come looking in Yellowknife 'cause 300K won't even buy you a good trailer!!!!!! New trailers in town are going for 369K!!! You don't want to know what a stick built house costs!!!
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Posted February 12, 2012 Built a house (myself), bought a house and almost had a custom house built for me....(boy am I glad that didn't happen) It took me almost 4 years to build my own summer home....but that was because it was 75 miles away......and did most of the work on weekends... but like Sinker has said....there are a LOT of hidden cost and HEADACHES to consider....when you have a family it's HARD to do....now if you're talking about having someone build you a custom home....well then....THEY should be the one you should be talking to....not us.. I will say, it is almost ALWAYS cheaper to buy a existing home then build one like it....LABOR and MATERIALS are a lot more now then back then....and most older homes were actually built better then many of the new cookie cutter homes that are being built today. Get a older home and renovated it slowly and or add on to a existing home to make it fit your large family. GOOD LUCK, Bob 4 years to build isn't bad, it took me 4 years to gut the interior of my house down to the 2x4's and rebuild it haha I pretty much spent most of my weekends and every holiday the past 4 years renovating and I'm sick of it... I'd rather take my kids fishing for the weekend and make family memories then work on the house... So I would either want a dive for 100 g's so I can pay a contractor 100 grand to renovate it before I walk through the door or I want a new house.... I have OCD or something... if there's anything that needs to be done, even if it really doesn't need to be done but it bugs me a little I'll find a reason to do it and waste my summer away working on it... I post lots of reports fishing with Averie, but really in 2011 I posted probably a dozen reports for the 12 times we got way out of 365 potential days... Mostly... I was renovating
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Posted February 12, 2012 Don't come looking in Yellowknife 'cause 300K won't even buy you a good trailer!!!!!! New trailers in town are going for 369K!!! You don't want to know what a stick built house costs!!! No thank you sir! LOL my house is worth about 220 for 3000sq. feet - in port credit, where we used to live its easily be a 750,000 dollar house... Homes are fairly cheap around here
Tootsie II Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 As an ex CMHC inspector/appraiser I can tell you about a few of the pitfalls that I saw many homeowner/builders get into over the years. Firstly, I don't even know if the banks will still make mortgage loans to homeowner builders. I retired in 1999. I always hoped to meet the homeowner on my first draw inspection and explain things to them. The "darn" bank loans officers never seemed to know how it worked and never explained things right to this type of client. In my early years I saw a lot of homeowner/builders get behind the 8-ball financially during and after construction. On a homeowner/builder loan, the construction advances were based on what was called a "residual holdback basis". This means the bank must hold back sufficient "residual" money to complete the house if they get it back on their hands before it's complete. Say you owned the land outright with a value of $40,000. and it was going to cost you $ 160,000. to build your house on that land. Total cost and completed "market value" to be $ 200,000. So you go ahead get all your permits and approvals and put in the foundation and maybe get the first floor deck (joists and subfloor) in place and maybe get your well and septic done and call for your first money draw inspection. The inspector uses a table based upon the amount the house is completed to determine at what percentage of completion you are at. So at the stage I just described and based on my recollection of those tables, you are at 20% of completion. $ 200,000 minus 80% residual to complete = $ 160,0000. You've hired your foundation contractor, well driller, septic guy, had them do the work and you get $ 00.00 on your first draw! How do you pay them and then buy the rest of your materials and pay the framers and others. I always told clients to check this out and many wound up having to arrange another line of credit to get them through the early stages until the next major draw stages had been reached. Of course that line of credit, if they can get it, has financing charges associated with it that they did not count on. Also, if you are planning on doing some of the work yourself, while working at a fulltime job and doing your family duties, you will damn near kill yourself from exhaustion. I'm not even sure that the banks/trust companies still accept "sweat equity", that is your own work as park of the loan conditions. I've met a few of these homeowner/builders who at the latter stages of doing most of their own worked looked like they about to keel over dead from the stress and exhaustion. I'm not saying it can't be done and I know a friend whose done it three times, but the first one was hell till he got the hang of it. Also, make sure that you have good written specifications and drawings for all work done by subtrades that you may hire. Word of mouth is never good enough these days. Make damn sure that they are WSIB covered. If Joe the Plumber's helper gets hurt on your site and Joe isn't WSIB covered, guess who might get sued by his family or charged by the Ministry of Labour - it's YOU as you are deemed to be the " Major Contractor" on the job. Also ask for references, check them out and particularly ask how they were for getting the work done on a timely manner when you need it and was it as per the original contract price. And of course always have all the permits you need and talk to your local building inspector to make sure you don't miss any mandatory building code stage inspections. While there are a few "power trippers" out there, most inspectors are more than willing to sit down and talk to you so that you know what you can expect from each other. Also make sure that you have sufficient insurance on the site from both loss by fire during construction and liability if some kid goes on your site after hours and breaks his neck. As you can see, if you can hire a good reputable local house builder from the area, the whole process could be easier but again, watch the financing and make sure you don't give him a huge wad of cash even before he starts.
The Urban Fisherman Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Posted February 12, 2012 As an ex CMHC inspector/appraiser I can tell you about a few of the pitfalls that I saw many homeowner/builders get into over the years. Firstly, I don't even know if the banks will still make mortgage loans to homeowner builders. I retired in 1999. I always hoped to meet the homeowner on my first draw inspection and explain things to them. The "darn" bank loans officers never seemed to know how it worked and never explained things right to this type of client. In my early years I saw a lot of homeowner/builders get behind the 8-ball financially during and after construction. On a homeowner/builder loan, the construction advances were based on what was called a "residual holdback basis". This means the bank must hold back sufficient "residual" money to complete the house if they get it back on their hands before it's complete. Say you owned the land outright with a value of $40,000. and it was going to cost you $ 160,000. to build your house on that land. Total cost and completed "market value" to be $ 200,000. So you go ahead get all your permits and approvals and put in the foundation and maybe get the first floor deck (joists and subfloor) in place and maybe get your well and septic done and call for your first money draw inspection. The inspector uses a table based upon the amount the house is completed to determine at what percentage of completion you are at. So at the stage I just described and based on my recollection of those tables, you are at 20% of completion. $ 200,000 minus 80% residual to complete = $ 160,0000. You've hired your foundation contractor, well driller, septic guy, had them do the work and you get $ 00.00 on your first draw! How do you pay them and then buy the rest of your materials and pay the framers and others. I always told clients to check this out and many wound up having to arrange another line of credit to get them through the early stages until the next major draw stages had been reached. Of course that line of credit, if they can get it, has financing charges associated with it that they did not count on. Also, if you are planning on doing some of the work yourself, while working at a fulltime job and doing your family duties, you will damn near kill yourself from exhaustion. I'm not even sure that the banks/trust companies still accept "sweat equity", that is your own work as park of the loan conditions. I've met a few of these homeowner/builders who at the latter stages of doing most of their own worked looked like they about to keel over dead from the stress and exhaustion. I'm not saying it can't be done and I know a friend whose done it three times, but the first one was hell till he got the hang of it. Also, make sure that you have good written specifications and drawings for all work done by subtrades that you may hire. Word of mouth is never good enough these days. Make damn sure that they are WSIB covered. If Joe the Plumber's helper gets hurt on your site and Joe isn't WSIB covered, guess who might get sued by his family or charged by the Ministry of Labour - it's YOU as you are deemed to be the " Major Contractor" on the job. Also ask for references, check them out and particularly ask how they were for getting the work done on a timely manner when you need it and was it as per the original contract price. And of course always have all the permits you need and talk to your local building inspector to make sure you don't miss any mandatory building code stage inspections. While there are a few "power trippers" out there, most inspectors are more than willing to sit down and talk to you so that you know what you can expect from each other. Also make sure that you have sufficient insurance on the site from both loss by fire during construction and liability if some kid goes on your site after hours and breaks his neck. As you can see, if you can hire a good reputable local house builder from the area, the whole process could be easier but again, watch the financing and make sure you don't give him a huge wad of cash even before he starts. Awesome - all great info here... Thanks for taking the time!!!! The deal that I'm working on right now is, our contractor / home builder is working together with the real estate and land developer... So basically they'd be building me a custom home, at their expense and when the house is all said and built I buy the place.... I can still pop in and check things out as it goes, and make minor changes but for the most part the price will be set in stone.... They will build the place then I'll buy it just like I'm buying any other house. The only difference between this and the other new houses they have for sale is I'm bringing in a contractor I know and trust rather than using theirs, and I'm providing my own plans. This is all preliminary stuff right now though... I'm just fishing for info here from the good folks of OFC... I can't build a house the traditional way because I already have a mortgage... The bank is just going to bridge my mortgage to the new place, and increase it if need be.
Twocoda Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 heres the link Ryan.... http://propertyguys..../index/id/29466 since the vendor is selling privately....im sure you have lots of room for negotiations...i dont know your area at all so maybe this lot is too far away from your requirements...
Billy Bob Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 4 years to build isn't bad, it took me 4 years to gut the interior of my house down to the 2x4's and rebuild it haha I pretty much spent most of my weekends and every holiday the past 4 years renovating and I'm sick of it... NO 4 years wasn't too bad considering everything was done during my days off and vacation time....I even met my wife up there in the process....but back then I was in my 20's and was full of piss and vinegar....now I could never pull that off...especially with my arthritis. But here's the KICKER I didn't mention.....after nearly 4 straight years of working on this 2 bedroom summer home on 2.5 acres of land over looking Chautauqua Lake we had a small incendent on May 2, 1983..... I just had a friend in the carpet business lay down wall to wall commercial carpeting through out the house, except bathroom and kitchen....and just need to add a 4 foot piece of floor moulding and it was DONE....had my in-laws up for a long weekend and my pretty bride was 8.5 months pregnant with our first son....when it happened while we were sitting down for dinner in the kitchen.... It suddenly got REAL dark outside and windy....we went to the front window and could see a tornado forming down in the valley below (we sat up on a hill overlooking everything)...that when this tornado headed towards us and I took out my new 35mm camera and started taking pictures...I ran out the back door and got some real nice pics as this twister just missed us....but I ran out of film....I ran back into the house to get more film when another twister hit us head on....yes, twin twisters....pick up the house off the foundation and lifted it over 4 feet high while we were in it....set the house back down kitty corner to the foundation (didn't know it at the time)..if we walked out the front door we would of fell 8 feet down into the basement/garage that was built into the hill......but we walked out the back door where temp steps were attached to the house because I had yet to build my backyard deck.....long story but it was a MESS.....THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars to the house, my travel trailer and both cars we had in the driveway.... >>>BTW when someone says your putting too many nails in that, your overdoing that....well think of my summer home...I was told that MANY MANY times but that house stood the test of a 150 mile hour tornado and saved 4 lives in the process....no one that seen the house after the tornado could believe how it stood completely intact while the barn across the street was levelled and many other homes were also complete losses. That storm took the will out of me to build another home....insurance paid for everything to be put back in order but the contractor took short cuts in everything he could because he knew I was 75 miles away and could get away with it.... DON'T TRUST ANY CONTRACTOR......EVER ! ! !
livinisfishin Posted February 12, 2012 Report Posted February 12, 2012 Not all contractors are bad bob....a lot are but there is still the good ones. Good job on the construction of your summer home.
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