NF- Central Vacuum installation - electrical question

[icefisherman]

Just bought my first ever central vacuum today and am planning to install it myself in the next few days. I've already done all the piping rough in , low voltage electrical cable pulls, wall inlets, etc. Just need to mount the unit in my garage and power it.

Now....my entire garage is on 15Amp breaker.

The central vacuum owners manual asks for "20 Amp dedicated circuit". Since I've already finished my basement (this is where my electrical panel is) it'll be tough/expensive to pull a new/dedicated wire from the panel to the garage and use it for the vacuum.

I've checked and on the unit itself it says 12.8Amp.

I know everyone likes to over-insure things, hence the requirement for 20Amps dedicated circuit.

What if I simply pull cable from one of the existing power outlets in my garage and power it that way?

And since my garage is also with finished drywall can I run that 110V wire on the surface of the drywall in some sort of conduit/plastic molding?

The only other plugged electrical devices in my garage are two garage door openers (2.7Amps each), one light and one double wall power outlet.

Can I also change the garage breaker from 15 to 20 Amp?

Considering the vacuum is only 12.8 Amp and chances of me running bunch of other high Amp tools in the garage while the vacuum is working is slim to none will this idea work?

Thanks.

Edited January 22, 2010 by icefisherman

[tschirk]

You should be fine

You cant change breaker without upgrading wiring

Just don't use other items when vacum is on or breaker with trip.

[danc]

You should be fine

You cant change breaker without upgrading wiring

Just don't use other items when vacum is on or breaker with trip.

 

Or do what I do. Just don't vacuum.

[icefisherman]

You should be fine

You cant change breaker without upgrading wiring

Just don't use other items when vacum is on or breaker with trip.

 

Thanks Ted,

 

what if I use the existing 14 gauge wire as a fish line and pull new 12 gauge wire between the panel in the basement and the only outlet in the garage?

They share the same concrete wall and straight distance between both is not more than 10 feet....but who knows if the wire bends and curves inside the wall and what might be in between?!!? If I manage to replace the wire I can then change to 20 Amps breaker and problem solved.

 

Also any particular requirements for running the wire on the drywall surface?

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[tschirk]

if you can pull 12Guage yes , but not likley due to wire staples etc....

[cheaptackle]

In a way you answered it yourself. You said the garage is on a dedicated 15 amp breaker now. Just plug the "can" in and have at it. As long as there is no other big draw on the circuit when the vacuum is running you will be fine. If you have a light on that's on the garage circuit it will dim when the vacuum starts up. The reason for the 20 amp spec is for start up (all units have an initial high draw) or if there's a long term blockage. I believe you will find the can itself has a 15 amp reset on it that will trip if the unit overheats.

As for using other high draw devices when the unit is running, how ya gonna do that when you're cleaning? (ha ha!) In a worse case scenario (surprise!) the panel breaker will trip. Turn off any other devices while vacuuming. The other option is to pull another 14 ga wire on a dedicated 15a breaker for an outlet for the can only, but you say you can't without opening drywall up. My advice is to try the existing FIRST before you worry, I think you'll find it'll be ok unless you have a freezer or beer fridge on the same circuit.

If the panel breaker keeps tripping, go fishing and pontificate on how you'll run the additional wire (hint - FISH it!)

Good Luck!

Michael

[Whopper]

I'll try to answer your questions.

 

#1 Most residential panels the circuit breakers are only good for 80% of their actual rating, so with that being said your 15amp breaker is only good for 12 amps of continuous use.

#2 #14 gauge wire is only good for 15amps and should not be installed on a 20amp breaker.

#3 I know your in Canada but in the US National Electric Code does not allow to run type NMB cable (romex) to be run surface on drywall inside of your garage, it has to be protected.

#4 It is highly unlikely that if you want to replace the existing wire to the garage and use it as a pull string if it was installed correctly in the first place.

 

If you want to have the proper installation of your new central vac system and not worry about what to use and when have a dedicated circuit installed as per instructions.

[icefisherman]

I would like to thank ALL who have advised me on this (on the board and in PM's).

I just came in the house after ALL day in the garage/basement....and everything works yehoooooooooo.....I guess I am half now electrician ha ha ha...

First I've tested the vacuum using the existing 15 Amp circuit and even with both garage door going up/down and circular saw going on it didn't trip the breaker....so I was going to leave it like that...but then I gave one more try to finding an easy path from the basement to the garage...and surprise surprise I found a small hole ....went bought 12/2 cable and pulled it for no time....did bunch of gluing for the white vacuum pipe for an extra outlet near the garage doors (for vacuuming my cars) put the 12/2 cable inside plastic conduit, install new 20 Amp breaker in the panel....tight it all up nice and tidy...and....as of 8pm I have functioning vacuum throughout the whole house....huraaaaaaaaahhh

It gives me great pleasure when I manage to do things I didn't think are possible for me to do ;-)

 

Thanks again guys!

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[Billy Bob]

Sounds like you did a job you can be proud of.

[Baldy]

I'll try to answer your questions.

 

#1 Most residential panels the circuit breakers are only good for 80% of their actual rating, so with that being said your 15amp breaker is only good for 12 amps of continuous use.

#2 #14 gauge wire is only good for 15amps and should not be installed on a 20amp breaker.

#3 I know your in Canada but in the US National Electric Code does not allow to run type NMB cable (romex) to be run surface on drywall inside of your garage, it has to be protected.

#4 It is highly unlikely that if you want to replace the existing wire to the garage and use it as a pull string if it was installed correctly in the first place.

 

If you want to have the proper installation of your new central vac system and not worry about what to use and when have a dedicated circuit installed as per instructions.

 

#1 Most residential panel breakers will not trip until at least the breaker rating is met or exceeded. The Canadian Electrical Safety Code states that circuit loading should not exceeded 80% of breaker rating. I have seen 15A breakers hold up to 26 amps before tripping.

 

Well done getting this machine working. How many HP is the motor? Does your manual say anything about providing a manual starter with overload protection?

Did you extend the wiring and if you did was a conduit or metal raceway used where subject to damage?

 

Also did you take out an electrical permit to comply with your homeowners insurance as well as the Electrical Safety Authority requirements? Extension cords, temporary wiring that somehow becomes permanent and wiring by unauthorized persons are some of the major causes of house fires.

 

http://www.esasafe.com/GeneralPublic/ir_001.php?s=3

[icefisherman]

How many HP is the motor? Does your manual say anything about providing a manual starter with overload protection?

Did you extend the wiring and if you did was a conduit or metal raceway used where subject to damage?

 

Also did you take out an electrical permit to comply with your homeowners insurance as well as the Electrical Safety Authority requirements? Extension cords, temporary wiring that somehow becomes permanent and wiring by unauthorized persons are some of the major causes of house fires.

 

http://www.esasafe.com/GeneralPublic/ir_001.php?s=3

 

 

Not sure and haven't seen anywhere rating on how many HP is the motor.

I pulled dedicated separate cable directly from the electrical panel to near the vacuum and protected it with rigid PVC 1/2" conduit. Terminated in plastic box into power outlet. The box and conduit all surface mounted onto the drywall with screws into the joist under the drywall. No extension cords or temporary wiring of any kind. No exposed 110V wiring anywhere. All 110V wire(12/2), conduit and box as per the code requirements.

My understanding is a home owner in Ontario can do as much/as little work as he desires on his own house without hiring licensed electrician and everything is working fine. Spoke to two licensed electricians describing what I've done and both said all was done by the rules. I don't think a licensed electrician would have done anything different/better than what I've done myself.

 

Here is a picture of the completed work:

Large white pipe is the vacuum, small gray pipe is the electrical conduit.

Small gray cable is the low voltage for the vacuum. It runs on the outside of the white vacuum pipe.

You can clearly see the main pipe coming out of the basement and the additional piping I've installed that terminates near my garage door so I can vacuum my cars/boat etc. outside.

I need to make a small correction where the garage door branch joins the main line....that joint should be horizontal (not vertical as it is now) to avoid the gravity drop in the garage door line. Not a big deal though - 10 min rerouting and new joint. Was going to do it horizontally but decided against it as it will be sticking away from the wall....now that I think about it, functionality should trump aesthetics in this case.

 

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Edited January 24, 2010 by icefisherman

[Baldy]

Wasn't criticizing your work, actually looks very well done. Didn't say you needed an electrician either, master electrician and contractor myself but with more work than I can handle so am not digging for work.

What I am trying to say is that if there is a fire in your garage, related to your wiring job or not, and your installation was found not to be inspected, then your insurance company will deny your claim citing unauthorized electrical wiring. You could fight them, if you have the money but more often than not you will lose. Insurance companies spend a lot trying to find a way out of paying a claim, a $5,000 investigation is still cheaper than a $50,000 claim.

[Billy Bob]

Something wrong.........I just can't put my finger on it........OH, I know....the whole garage is too neat from someone who fishes a lot....

[motion]

#1 Most residential panel breakers will not trip until at least the breaker rating is met or exceeded. The Canadian Electrical Safety Code states that circuit loading should not exceeded 80% of breaker rating. I have seen 15A breakers hold up to 26 amps before tripping.

 

Well done getting this machine working. How many HP is the motor? Does your manual say anything about providing a manual starter with overload protection?

Did you extend the wiring and if you did was a conduit or metal raceway used where subject to damage?

 

Also did you take out an electrical permit to comply with your homeowners insurance as well as the Electrical Safety Authority requirements? Extension cords, temporary wiring that somehow becomes permanent and wiring by unauthorized persons are some of the major causes of house fires.

 

http://www.esasafe.com/GeneralPublic/ir_001.php?s=3

 

Gimme a break Baldy You want us to call you to come hook up our Christmas lights too! Will I need a ESA permit for that too? The vacuums dont need a manual starter as they come with internal overload protection. Nice job Icefisherman. Looks good to me. Better than most installations I have seen.

 

Cheers.

[irishfield]

I think it's great that he did it all without moving the boat out into the cold !!

[Billy Bob]

On your boat........do you have a on-board charger......I have had one for about 6-7 years and it really prolongs the life of both my batteries.....but what I would like to suggest if you have one or are planning on installing one is have the extension cord drop down from the ceiling and plug into the cord for the on-board charger......this way it automatically unplugs in the morning as you pull away (I have my boat hooked onto the truck the night before)....this way no damage is done to anything when you forget to unplug it come morning....and YES I almost always forget to unplug the boat before heading out.

 

Bob

[icefisherman]

Hey Guys,

 

here is a new picture of the latest (and final) changes I did this morning to correct the gravity drop situation.

I liked it flash to the wall but it could have presented a problem with accumulating trash in to the base of my garage pipe so I've changed it.

Just in case someone else does the same project here is the correct way to connect branch line

 

 

Thanks again to everyone's input. Really appreciate it.

No problem Baldy, didn't mean anything personal....thanks for your points as they were good ones.

I am just one of those guys who try to do as much as possible myself....saves me lots of money and sure teaches me things I've never thought I could do.

Your point about the insurance is valid one but hey....there comes a point when you cannot insure yourself against everything...you simply do the best you can and take your chances for the rest (this is my life philosophy anyways).

Most people don't bother with all those permits and there are very good reasons for that.

 

Bob,

 

don't have on board charger yet but am planning on getting one soon. Will keep your advice in mind.

 

Anyhow, this board rocks.......sorry to repeat myself again hahaha

I've got great advice here many times.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Edited January 24, 2010 by icefisherman

[irishfield]

Smart move on the Tee reorientation Emil !! My garage inlet does exactly what you were worried about and every once in awhile I have to remember to prop the inlet cover open and hit the switch on the vacuum to clean the pipe out before it clogs solid.

[Dara]

It would cost you about a hundred bucks for the permit. You are allowed to do your own work.

I did my garage 2 years ago and got it all permitted and inspected..60 amp burried from the house to garage, 100 amp service in the garage...no problems and peace of mind.

I have added circuits in the house without bothering as well, but that was before the garage so its all covered now.

[douG]

Very fine journeyman professional type work there, Emil. I would be proud to have that workmanship in my place.

[John Bacon]

Wasn't criticizing your work, actually looks very well done. Didn't say you needed an electrician either, master electrician and contractor myself but with more work than I can handle so am not digging for work.

What I am trying to say is that if there is a fire in your garage, related to your wiring job or not, and your installation was found not to be inspected, then your insurance company will deny your claim citing unauthorized electrical wiring. You could fight them, if you have the money but more often than not you will lose. Insurance companies spend a lot trying to find a way out of paying a claim, a $5,000 investigation is still cheaper than a $50,000 claim.

 

Has anybody actually heard of an insurance company denying a claim because someone did their own wiring? I haven't heard of it happening. I think it would make the news if it actually did happen.

[royM]

Looks like a good installation in your pictures, but I can't see in the last picture a 20 amp "T " slot receptacle.It looks to be a standard 15A recptacle. I appologize if I am wrong.

[icefisherman]

Looks like a good installation in your pictures, but I can't see in the last picture a 20 amp "T " slot receptacle.It looks to be a standard 15A recptacle. I appologize if I am wrong.

 

Thanks Roy and no need for apology at all.

In fact you made a good point so I just replaced the receptacle and here is how it looks now:

 

 

I believe this is the one you were talking about?

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Edited January 25, 2010 by icefisherman

[royM]

excellent