The Credit River Dams

[laszlo]

Does anyone have any info on what the MNR plans on doing to improve The Credit River?

I think there is a fish ladder at the Streetsville Dam but the dam itself is difficult to pass or can't be passed.

 

Also I've heard that the Norval Dam can not be passed at all.

 

Is the MNR working to address these issues?

If so how would this improve the fishery?

 

Thanks

 

Laszlo

[BillM]

Leave the steelhead where they are and let the resident brook trout prosper.

[Hairpy]

Bill , the steelhead need the upper stretches to successfully spawn if we want to improve things. They can live just fine with the brookies.

 

Joseph

[bigreddog]

Check with the Credit River Anglers Association.

 

They are the organization that is driving most of the rehabilitation work around the Credit, including managing the dam and fish ladder in Streetsville, and coordinating the transfer of fish above the dam in Norval.

 

Also, the Norval dam is a privately-owned structure, so it will continue to exist for the forseeable future. However, there are plans for a fishway to be built so that fish can bypass the structure, similar to what's currently in place for Streetsville -- including the ability to manually operate in order to block or separate fish.

 

I suspect that there will also be a new barrier built above the spawning areas in order to protect the indigenous brook trout populations.

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

I'M WITH BILL!

[laszlo]

I just read a couple long articles regarding these issues. Seems like there are a lot of different

opinions going around. Removing dams seems to solve some issues and create others.

[ehg]

Have caught atlantics, fairly large browns, and rainbow trout at the Forks of the Credit area along with decent brookies.

Only the Atlantics and Brook trout could be considered native to the fishery, so there is some introduced and stocked invasive species above the Norval dam. Keeping the Pacific salmon out of there might be good since they don't spawn successfully much anyways.

[CLofchik]

Only the Atlantics and Brook trout could be considered native to the fishery, so there is some introduced and stocked invasive species above the Norval dam. Keeping the Pacific salmon out of there might be good since they don't spawn successfully much anyways.

 

1) The strain of Atlantics being used are no more native to the Credit than the browns & bows. There's actually plenty of argument to say that after 100 generations or so bows are more native to the Great Lakes than any East Coast transplants.

 

2) Pacific salmon never had a shot at successfully spawning in the Credit because of the mentioned dams keeping them out of any areas they (or any other migratory fish) need to spawn. There simply isn't any suitable stretches below Streetsville, which is the way the MNR wants it to stay. Streetsville isn't a ladder, but a trap to stop migratory fish unless they are physically lifted over. Salmon don't get that oppurtunity, that's reserved for the trout and the vaunted Atlantics (who get a limo ride right to the Forks). The CRAA folks will be able to answer alot more question about the bows but I believe they worked hard to finally lift bows above Norval, so you should see them start to reproduce in the numbers they should.

 

3) Contrary to the fears of the tweed wearing spaghetti whipping fly fishing folks migratory trout & natives can and do coexist on the same rivers just fine. More steelhead doesn't mean less headwater natives.

[danbo]

Why don't you go & help C.R.A.A. ?

[craigdritchie]

1) The strain of Atlantics being used are no more native to the Credit than the browns & bows.

:clapping: :clapping:

 

Completely and absolutely accurate. The original strain of ouananiche that once lived in Lake Ontario are long gone. Atlantic salmon (or ouananicche) introduced from other systems are genetically every bit as exotic as the brown trout, steelhead, coho and chinook salmon. This is why the Atlantic salmon program is such a complete and total farce.

[perchslayer666]

I think a whole bunch of people need to chill out on the whole Atlantic Salmon topic….I mean it has already turned the Credit into a true year-round fishery, me and a buddy were catching Atlantics in Mid-July this year, how cool was that!!! I think it’s great that they’re stocking Atlantics again, great fun, people need to shut up and fish for them…. Let’s face it, the original lake Ontario Atlantic Salmon is long gone, this is the next best thing, enjoy it as it develops right before your eyes!

[highdrifter]

I think a whole bunch of people need to chill out on the whole Atlantic Salmon topic….I mean it has already turned the Credit into a true year-round fishery, me and a buddy were catching Atlantics in Mid-July this year, how cool was that!!! I think it’s great that they’re stocking Atlantics again, great fun, people need to shut up and fish for them…. Let’s face it, the original lake Ontario Atlantic Salmon is long gone, this is the next best thing, enjoy it as it develops right before your eyes!

 

Atlantics are closed year round in the Credit River.

[Hairpy]

Chanco , when you guys fish in the summer , please keep an eye on the water temps. Use 20 degrees celcius as a rule and anything under that. Anything over that can be leathal.

 

Clofchik, there are more wild chinnies than you would think

 

Joseph

Edited September 2, 2009 by Joseph

[perchslayer666]

True, you are right, we were catching them ‘pinning for bass in some deep pools on the Credit (tons of fun if you ask me) and apparently a good sized pod of Atlantics where hanging with the Bass (or vise versa), it was unbelievable! Of course we released all of them, but oh man, just wait until open season on these things it’ll a blast!

[Richard S.]

2) Pacific salmon never had a shot at successfully spawning in the Credit because of the mentioned dams keeping them out of any areas they (or any other migratory fish) need to spawn. There simply isn't any suitable stretches below Streetsville, which is the way the MNR wants it to stay. Streetsville isn't a ladder, but a trap to stop migratory fish unless they are physically lifted over. Salmon don't get that oppurtunity, that's reserved for the trout and the vaunted Atlantics (who get a limo ride right to the Forks). The CRAA folks will be able to answer alot more question about the bows but I believe they worked hard to finally lift bows above Norval, so you should see them start to reproduce in the numbers they should.

 

Chinooks do successfully spawn below streetsville because unlike steelhead, coho's, and browns they smolt out in may the same year they hatch before the lower river gets to hot. Streetsville does have a ladder and it does work, all fish can make it over when allowed. Now the reason the Pacific’s aren't allowed above streetsville is because the credit river fisheries management plan does not allow them too. As the FMP stands now Pacific’s are allowed up to streetsville, migratory trout are allowed up to Norval, and atlantics which are a native species are allowed un-restricted access to every part of the credit river and it's tributaries.

 

When the ladder gets built in Norval, which is going to be happening this year. An electro barrier built in Inglewood, migratory trout will be allowed access up to Inglewood and Chinooks hopefully will be allowed to Norval.

 

 

Rich.

[Richard S.]

3) Contrary to the fears of the tweed wearing spaghetti whipping fly fishing folks migratory trout & natives can and do coexist on the same rivers just fine. More steelhead doesn't mean less headwater natives.

 

 

I couldn't agreemore with you. Just look at all the tibs out east of toronto, on Lake Huron, and G bay that have no barriers on them. The problem is that the guys who fish up in the forks are scared that it will bring the "masses" who fish for migratories up there.

 

 

Rich.

[highdrifter]

True, you are right, we were catching them ‘pinning for bass in some deep pools on the Credit (tons of fun if you ask me) and apparently a good sized pod of Atlantics where hanging with the Bass (or vise versa), it was unbelievable! Of course we released all of them, but oh man, just wait until open season on these things it’ll a blast!

 

YEASURE!! "Pinning for bass"

[perchslayer666]

Lol, seriously, you mean you’ve never done that before? It’s awesome catching a 3lb smallies on the Pin….I understand that Salmon/Steelheaders in Canada would only consider using a Centerpin for these types of fish, but people in other parts of the world use these reels for catching anything that swims (ie. England)…. Some guys in the states that I know exclusively use Centerpin reels for fishing channel cats out of slow moving rivers, and do quite well….

[acmarou]

You're right! People do pin for bass, carp, and cats. I'm curous as to what you were using for bait, and like someone said earlier atlantics are closed year round. Regardless of what you're fishing for, if atlantics are hitting, move on. Read the regs or ask Italo. :lol:

[perchslayer666]

We were using power worms, and fishing a deep pool where previously we were nailing smallies up to 3lbs, the following week, nail a couple smallies and surprise Atlantics – the pool is pretty deep so it’s not like we were floating our baits right in front of them, totally accidental catches, and moved on after landing 2 and hooking on to 3 or 4 more by accident. Same thing when you’re fishing for Pickeral and you get the odd OOS bass dude….

[perchslayer666]

We were using power worms, and fishing a deep pool where previously we were nailing smallies up to 3lbs, the following week, nail a couple smallies and surprise Atlantics – the pool is pretty deep so it’s not like we were floating our baits right in front of them, totally accidental catches, and moved on after landing 2 and hooking on to 3 or 4 more by accident. Same thing when you’re fishing for Pickeral and you get the odd OOS bass dude….

[aniceguy]

Brook Trout and migratory anything can intermingle and they can and do successfully in most environments so why not the Credit

 

The Credit is one river that Im all for protecting the Brook trout population that exists and `providing rehabilitation opportunities. Sadly with the demise of the green drake population, poor water quality due in most part I suspect to Orangevilles poor sewage treatment practices thier range is soon to be less and less, sad considering some user groups and in particular one of thier bio's on the Credit does'nt want CRAA's help with it go figure

 

. Since we can safely say there is no measerable brook trout population below the East Credit, then all species of salmonids are non native and as such should all be allowed to intermingle that should include brown trout rainbow trout coho chinook and Atlantics, if someone wants to prove to me there is a difference between a migratory and resident fish beyond life stages Im all ears but until then I ll stand by my comment.

Sadly some stakeholders like TU and Issiac Walton in past didnt see it that way and we have the current credit scenerio where Rainbows cant access .above the papermill dam without a barrier Chinooks and Coho's are scurge of the earth ( in thier eyes ) and cant access above Streetsville) and even browns out of the lake cant get dropped at the cataract because they are some how different then the ones up there ...again go figure.

 

It is inappropriate for ANY angling group be it migratory guys or as said earlier tweed wearing spaghetti whipping fly fishing folks )thanks man that was a good chuckle) to be allowed to have special access to any water for any reason. I had an elderly man come to me almost in tears because someone on the upper chastised him for bringing his grandson to fish and heaven forbid he had a worm on, a typical mentaility of how some in the upper watershed care only about thier experience but could care less about anyone elses.

 

Now to dam mitigation, there are hundreds of dams on the Credit from some with heads in the double digits to some that are mearly a speed bump, many are in disrepair, many provide some species segregation, but for the most thety should all be gone. Its a long ardious process to remove a dam as not only are land owner rights involved but as you see above stakeholders will argue the smallest of facts. For the record i wish they all were gone.

Norval is scheduled to recieve an active fish ladder this year, we are in the advance stages of design and are inches from seeing it start construction, while I knwo many bash the MNR this is one project where the district the local bio and even the Minister want to all see happen.

[acmarou]

Not sure, but I believe you're Louie. Truly a nice guy!!

 

Thanx Bud!!

 

For the rest of the armchair crowd... Like Danbo said. Why don't you go help CRAA? Or any other organization

 

that cares as much about our fishery. It's pretty rewarding!!!!

[ehg]

Brook Trout and migratory anything can intermingle and they can and do successfully in most environments so why not the Credit

That was the point of my post, seems like most species are there intermingling anyways.

Could see why folks up there might not want masses snagging boots up there however.

[Richard S.]

Why not the Credit, you know the answer to that one Louis. It is because they have "there own" special fishery up there and they don't want it spoiled by migratory's and everything that comes with them.

 

 

Rich.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Richard S.