Any Home owner Insurance experts out there? Totaly N/F

[Cookslav]

Just had a significant Leak "somewere" in my Roof or Flashing.

I noticed a wet spot back in the summer in my Master bedroom Carpet Against the Wall, but I figured it was just a spill from one of the kids.

 

Well a month ago, my wife had some laundry sitting near the area, and it was damp?

So I checked it out, and figured it could be another spill, but I'd keep and eye on it and see if it happens when it rains.

 

Well we got some good rain last night, and awoke to my carpets being SOAKED this morning and discoloured redish(on cream color carpet)

Turns out the rain came through in Spades, and the rust from the nails in the flooring washed into the carpet, and extended 2 feet into the room, by about a 10 foot section...

When I pulled the carpet back I noticed it had wept through the Cracks in the floor boards, so I imediatly checked the ceiling below the bedroom in the Garage, and front door entrance area to find MAJOR drywall damage in the Garage, and puddles of water on the floor...

Its a huge mess.

 

My house is 2 years and 4 months old...appearently the Tarian Ontario new home builders warranty expires for Leaks after only 2 years, so I missed the window by 4 months. The Builder is refering me to Tarion, and wiping their hands of the situation, Tarion has wiped their hands clean, and now My Home owners Insurance Company is telling me they will send an adjuster to assess the situation but...

 

In this case they are generally only responsible for the damage caused inside,

So I'm on my own to fix the actual leak out of my pocket....

This sounds strange to me?

Its a 2.3 year old house, and I've not done anything to the roof, nor Can I see any visible damage or cause?

So I don't even know were the water is getting in, or what I'm suppose to fix!!!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but,

Should the Insurance company not take my deductable, and FIX the entire issue so its done correctly the first time thus avoiding future claims?

 

I've never filed a claim in my life...

I'd usualy fix it my self if it was cheaper then the deductable but this is a doozie.

My Carpet is ruined, and I have matching Carpet on the entire 2nd storey that runs down the stairs as well....

So in order to maintain the flow its all going to need replacement.

The Garage I could care less about....just slap up some new insulation, and fix the dry wall....easy fix

but I'm still unsure of were the Water came from, so there may be massive water damage or mold behind the dry wall in my Master bed room, so this is going to cost $1000's of extra dollars that I don't have grrrrrrrrr!!!

 

Any way I'm curios to know If I am correct that they need to cover the outside repair as well?

I just need to know how hard I can push the Insurance guys before I decide to call the lawyer if need be.

Any advice from someone in the field, or someone who has gone through this would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

Thanks,

Edited December 15, 2008 by Cookslav

[Jay T]

When I had a leak, I had to fix everything myself with my own funds. Insurance didn't cover water damage coming in the house from the outside, but would cover it if the washer leaked and flooded the basement.

I think your stuck with the bill to fix it, but I could be wrong.

[JohnF]

Just had a significant Leak "somewere" in my Roof or Flashing.

I noticed a wet spot back in the summer in my Master bedroom Carpet Against the Wall, but I figured it was just a spill from one of the kids.

 

Well a month ago, my wife had some laundry sitting near the area, and it was damp?

So I checked it out, and figured it could be another spill, but I'd keep and eye on it and see if it happens when it rains.

 

Well we got some good rain last night, and awoke to my carpets being SOAKED this morning and discoloured redish(on cream color carpet)

Turns out the rain came through in Spades, and the rust from the nails in the flooring washed into the carpet, and extended 2 feet into the room, by about a 10 foot section...

When I pulled the carpet back I noticed it had wept through the Cracks in the floor boards, so I imediatly checked the ceiling below the bedroom in the Garage, and front door entrance area to find MAJOR drywall damage in the Garage, and puddles of water on the floor...

Its a huge mess.

 

My house is 2 years and 4 months old...appearently the Tarian Ontario new home builders warranty expires for Leaks after only 2 years, so I missed the window by 4 months. The Builder is refering me to Tarion, and wiping their hands of the situation, Tarion has wiped their hands clean, and now My Home owners Insurance Company is telling me they will send an adjuster to assess the situation but...

 

In this case they are generally only responsible for the damage caused inside,

So I'm on my own to fix the actual leak out of my pocket....

This sounds strange to me?

Its a 2.3 year old house, and I've not done anything to the roof, nor Can I see any visible damage or cause?

So I don't even know were the water is getting in, or what I'm suppose to fix!!!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but,

Should the Insurance company not take my deductable, and FIX the entire issue so its done correctly the first time thus avoiding future claims?

 

I've never filed a claim in my life...

I'd usualy fix it my self if it was cheaper then the deductable but this is a doozie.

My Carpet is ruined, and I have matching Carpet on the entire 2nd storey that runs down the stairs as well....

So in order to maintain the flow its all going to need replacement.

The Garage I could care less about....just slap up some new insulation, and fix the dry wall....easy fix

but I'm still unsure of were the Water came from, so there may be massive water damage or mold behind the dry wall in my Master bed room, so this is going to cost $1000's of extra dollars that I don't have grrrrrrrrr!!!

 

Any way I'm curios to know If I am correct that they need to cover the outside repair as well?

I just need to know how hard I can puch the Insurance guys before I decide to call the lawyer if need be.

Any advice from someone in the field, or someone who has gone through this would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

Thanks,

 

Couple of thoughts:

1. I would still get in touch with Tarion in case they'll do something. Don't assume that the time's up so you're outa luck.

2. Your insurance will likely only cover the damage, not the house repairs to stop the leaking.

3. Is it possible you've just got ice damming on the roof somewhere?

 

JF

Edited December 15, 2008 by JohnF

[Joey]

Dig up your policy and read it. It will tell you exactly what is covered and what is not.

 

Generally the back page outlines the major stuff, and inside are details of each and what is covered.

 

Joey

[SlowPoke]

By no means am I an expert, nor am I in the insurance biz.

I feel for you having been flooded myself and sustaining major interior damage as well as nearly having a roof blown off.

In the event of my flood, my insurance covered contents and interior damage but would not flip me a dime for preventitive measures even having paid out twice. I incurred the cost of a backwater valve in the grey water outlet myself. It would seem their responsibilty ends at your four walls, roof and foundation. Nothing to do with poor workmanship.

When my roof was replaced, they offered to pay for one of four sides due to wind damage. I was one of the lucky ones on the street that sustained damage but no leaks. I ate the cost of the other three sides and I was a little disappointed but I can see their point. The other three sides were just old.

I think if anything you should consider pushing the builder for poor workmanship. If it's happened to you, there is a good chance it has or will happen to your neighbours. Obviously your roof(?) has been leaking for a considerable abount of time. Likely before the Tarion warrenty lapsed.

I think if I had a new home I would consider a home inspection before Tarion ran out - that doesn't help you now but maybe it will help others.

Sorry about your water damage but at least you didn't lose anything irreplaceable.

-Brian

[irishfield]

Water is an amazing thing on how it can get in without finding the spot ! That said since it isn't effecting your ceiling...

 

Do you have a plumbing vent stack in that wall?? and water gets in around it's rubber roof seal and runs down into the wall.

 

Do you have any water pipes in that wall ?? Drywall screw into a pipe...that's been a snow leaker and has now grown!

Edited December 15, 2008 by irishfield

[Cookslav]

Couple of thoughts:

1. I would still get in touch with Tarion in case they'll do something. Don't assume that the time's up so you're outa luck.

2. Your insurance will likely only cover the damage, not the house repairs to stop the leaking.

3. Is it possible you've just got ice damming on the roof somewhere?

 

Already dealt with Tarion, and the builder....both are not going to lift a finger.

I have no leverage there as both Warranties end at 2 years.

As far as the obligations and the Law go they are off the hook, according to My lawyer whom I just consulted.

He feels the Insurance company will be on the hook for the interior work for sure, but the Exterior fix is in the air.

If the origion of the Leak is able to be pinpointed and determined as damage, or faulty The insurance company "DOES" indeed need to fix it, however they are not on the stick to "FIND" the cause, as their job is to repair the damage not find it.

 

The issue at hand is if they just repair the water damage and leave the source for me fix it, and it happens again they can deny my next claim for reasons of neglegence...

In other words I failed to "Maintain" the roof in a reasonable fashion.

 

Its crap if you ask me, but I guess I need to get some one in to determine the origion of the leak, or find it myself.

But Like I said I have no idea were its comming from?

Its Hard to fix an invisible problem...

I fear the only real way to find the cause, and reveal the extent of the damage is to tear out the drywall and follow the staining.

But I can't do that until I talk to the Adjusters AFTER they've made their assesment.

 

I can't just go ripping up walls and then ask the insuance company to pick up the peices...

[Cookslav]

Do you have a plumbing vent stack in that wall?? and water gets in around it's rubber roof seal and runs down into the wall.

 

Do you have any water pipes in that wall ?? Drywall screw into a pipe...that's been a snow leaker and has now grown!

 

Nope...

Nothing there its an outside wall and nothing on the roof line in the general area.

I'm guessing its some how got under the Flashing Around the window?

I can't see any holes, bends, or anything to suggest that but the locality of the Damage suggests the water came in somewere close to there...I may re-calk it, and seal it again after the Adjuster has come through.

I think my best bet right now is to wait for the adjusters...find out what they are thinking and hopefully they will discover something, or at the very least I can then rip away the damaged dry wall and have a look.

If both of us are unable to determine the cause I guess I'll call in an expert...what else can I do?

 

Bah humbug!

[Jer]

I had some bad leaking from my roof due to ice-damming almost 8 years ago. Extensive dry-wall and ceiling damage in almost every corner of the house. It was a freak February rain storm and I came home from work to find it raining inside as well (at least it seemed it).

 

Anyways, when calling the insurance company, they insisted I get up on the roof as soon as possible to remove any ice & snow from the edges of the roof (a day & a half on the roof in February with ice-melt & a hatchet, oh what fun). Apparently I was responsible for mitigating my damages as much as reasonably possible (not allowing anymore leaks). All I was able to claim was for interior damage (some insulation, drywall work and paint). No contents or carpet were damaged, I had pots and bowls all over the place until the rain stopped.

 

Insurance wasn't interested in even looking at my roof, that was my responsibility and a similiar claim in the future might be frowned upon if I didn't make some improvements to the roof. Needless to say, I had the roof re-shingled in the spring (with 'ice-guard' over the entire roof) and bought a snow rake which I now use religously.

[spooner_jr]

Sorry to hear about your problems, but unfortunately your homeowner policy only covers you for damage, not for preventative repairs or issues they deem to be faulty workmanship. If the policy did cover you for that, a homeowner would never have to do any of their own regular maintenance (if you don't replace my 15 yr old roof it will leak and cause damage... if you don't remove that old tree hanging over my house it will fall on it...).

 

A house that is two years old should not have these issues if it was built properly. It sounds to me like the problem is around your windows, or a poor flashing job of the area where the garage roof meets the house. Probably your best bet is to get up in the attic above the bedroom and see if you can tell where the water is coming in, a leak in the roof can run down rafters and end up quite a distance from the problem. If you can't tell from that, you should pull the drywall off the ceiling in the garage, then as a last resort, around the windows. If you have any water damage on the drywall in the bedroom, I would pull it anyway as you will end up with mould issues.

 

Good Luck.

[Cookslav]

Well,

Luckily the insurance Company has agreed to fix the source(yet to be determined)

And the interior Damage.

they have a contractor comming into assess the problem tommorrow and fix it...yeah!

If its veiwed as "Faulty Workmanship" The Insuance company will be going after the Builder, and returning my $1000 deductable!!!

It seems likely the leak is comming through the roof were the Garage meets the house, which appearently is Gaurenteed for 15 years

(the life of the Shingles)

Turns out the builder more or less lied about the coverage of their warranty, and the insurance company caught their little fib.

The Insurance company will now take care of it on our behalf.

 

Only issue now is what will become of my Carpet...

The Insurance company is fixing the damage, and the source(which I am gratefull for)

But they only want to replace the stained carpet in the room that was damaged....

Being I have seamless matching Carpet on the entire second storey of the house

that extends down the stairs as well...that isn't going to fly

I can't have one room different then the rest.

Especially when its th ONLY carpet in the house, as the rest it Hard wood or tile....that would look like hell?

 

Anyway thanks for the advice, and Pm's

Turns out a little tough talk goes a long way with these big companies sometimes.

Let just see If I can get them to do the right thing and replace all the carpet.

[irishfield]

Good stuff Cookslav... as for the carpet.. different colours/styles in each room give a house character !! Get them to cut it right where your door closes and tape/glue the seam to your new carpet. Guess you'd hate Leah's Burgandy dining room with hardwood... the striped blue front sitting room beside it thru the french doors with carpet.... or the yellow smooshed living room that we enter our brown walled, light gray carpeted bedroom from. lol

[Whopper]

A good carpet installer can fix it so you won't even know the difference as long as the original carpet is still available.

 

Good Luck

[Dartee]

A good carpet installer can fix it so you won't even know the difference as long as the original carpet is still available.

 

Good Luck

 

As Whopper noted, a good installer will be able to make the seam disappear. Besides there is already a seam at or near the doorway to the room and if the room is wider then 12 ft there is likely a second seam in the room as well.

The only catch will be finding the same carpet/dye lot, but since the house is only 2.3yrs old, odds are pretty good.

 

Good Luck

[Canuck2fan]

That is great about the insurance company manning up and looking out for you!!!

 

Also the others are correct you do have SEAMS you just can't see them. There is absolutely no way you could do a whole upstairs without some seams unless the entire upstairs is less than 12 feet wide. Even a mediocre installer should be able to hide a seam in good quality carpet, a good installer will make it absolutely invisible.

[Cookslav]

Good stuff Cookslav... as for the carpet.. different colours/styles in each room give a house character !! biggrin.gif Get them to cut it right where your door closes and tape/glue the seam to your new carpet. Guess you'd hate Leah's Burgandy dining room with hardwood... the striped blue front sitting room beside it thru the french doors with carpet.... or the yellow smooshed living room that we enter our brown walled, light gray carpeted bedroom from. lol

 

LOL...to each there own right

 

In our case we wanted all the carpets to match on this floor...its all newer carpet as is.

The house is only 2.3 years old....hopefully they still have the same dye # of the carpet available...

To be honest I reeeely don't want to replace it....its nice newer carpet with no stains, or rough spots, but I do want any replacement to match if it needs to be, and if that dye number is no longer available I want it all done.

That and newer carpet or not, the wear and tear on the old carpet is sure to stick out more once you put a brand new peice beside it.

IMO when the Insuruance contract says

and I quote

"Coverd loss and(or) Damage will be replaced, or repaired to the condition it was previous to the incurred Peril"

To me that says I will once again have flowing matching carpet...

 

It would not be the same condition, nor dollor value if it was not matching carpet...

(I'm Pretty sure most real estate agents would agree from a resale point of view.)

Hopefully it all works out...

The adjuster/Contractor should be by today to make the assesments, then we'll take it from there.

[mikeh]

I'd suggest you call the builder one more time and ask him if he'd like to fix it. It might be cheaper for him to fix it (fix leak,repair drywall ,paint and replace ALL the carpet) than for the insurance people to hire somebody plus the lawyers fees plus any other costs incurred.

[Cookslav]

Makes no difference to me really...

The Builder more or less told me to take a hike, so now the insurance company is going to do the work and sue the Builder

And hopefully return my $1000 deductable so I pay nothing.

He had a chance to deal with me, and blew me off...

Its going to cost him much more now I am sure.

Either way he has my number....

If he decides to save his ass and do it himself he just has to call me.

I'll gladly accept his appology and save him the Aggravation, if he's willing to fix it fast.

 

but the balls in his court...