Home Stereo Question NF

[holdfast]

Well due to an insurance claim I get to spend $500 because of damaged speakers. So here is my set up now.

Techniques 5.1,,,100watts per channel

Paradigm Sub I think 250 watts

Cerwin Vega Towers

Dalquist surround and a pair of 400dollar Sound Stage Towers still in the Box

 

I enjoy surround as well as stereo as I HAD used my damaged towers as back or speaker Bull in Stereo.

 

I went to one store and and I was convinced that for my money is buy a 7.1 Denon Amp and use your speakers that you have. Another store told me that 7.1 wont give you any better sound so stick with what you got and Y cable a second sub woofer. This is the same guy that was telling me that a 35 watt Harmon Karmon is better than a 100 watt panasonic. I always thought Panasonic was tops in consumer reports. So heres my questions.

 

1. What would you do with the $500. Remember its not Toronto here. Just a Walmart and 2 Stereo shops.

2. Is he right about the amps or is Panasonic just as good.

3. And those of you with a consumers report was the best Rated amp for the money

 

Thanks for your input

[Deano]

I have the RCA home theatre 700 watts total, 200watt sub and 100watts to each other speaker. Love it, had it for years now. It comes all together in a box. I'm not crazy about Panasonic's sound, I find they sound a little empty, not a full sound like the RCA. That's just my opinion.

[bigfish1965]

You have to listn to a Harmon Kardon to appreciate it. There isn't alot of volume difference between 35 and a 100 watts. But the difference in the clarity is huge. The closer you push that Panasonic to 100 the more distortion you will receive.

I think 5.1 units are more than enough since I've yet to see even a 6.1 movie out. I got my Yamaha 5.1 6 yrs ago. They were pushing the 6's then cause the 6 channel movies were just around the corner. Never happened.

 

Yamaha makes an awsome package for a great price.

[lookinforwalleye]

I have 7.1 surround system that I upgraded from a 5.1 system and to be honest I really can`t say that 7.1 is any better than the old 5.1 sure you get some filler sound in the 2 extra rear speakers but think it takes away from where your focus should be and that is on your screen and the 3 front speakers. For most applications 5.1 is the best set up.

Another thing you should keep in mind is you should not get caught up in what is better a 500 dollar Techniques reciever or a 500 Harmon Kardon because frankly a 500 dollar reciever and 400 or 500 dollar speakers are low end equipment just buy what sounds best to you.

When I upgraded my system last year I thought I just had to have new front speakers to go with my fancy new TV and reciever so I bought a new pair of NHT speakers paid 2 thousand for the pair and low and behold when I hooked them up they didn`t sound any better than the 300 dollar Paradigm that they replaced now I am talking for movie viewing here the NHT`s are wonderful for pure music but for movies they don`t sound any better than all the crap you can by at Future Shop for a couple hundred bucks as a matter of fact I replaced my NHT`s for a pair of 250 dollar Athena speakers for my movie viewing and they are wonderful.

If your Techniques reciever does not clip and your sub does not give out when you listen to say U571 very loud I would just leave them for the time being and look into upgrading your centre channel and then your sub most people overlook the need for a quality centre but in my opinion in the average home system the centre channel and the sub are the 2 most important speakers in the system if you ever get the chance to experience a system with a quality centre channel and sub you will see what I mean, obviously if you do upgrade your centre and sub then your Technique reciever will have to go as well.

[spanky]

well i think both salesman were right, to an extent...

 

a nice amplifier will increase clarity, a less than decent amplifier will dirty the signal... and the speakers can only play as good as the amp tells them too.

 

As for subwoofers, if you've got say 1 2volt pre-out and you Y it then each powered subwoofer will be getting 1 volt each... yuo'll have to up the gains and get close to, if not into, clipping and thats the worst of a dirty signal again. If the subwoofers aren't powered, then you'll be doubling or halfing the Ohms, so it'll either make your 100W subwoofer play at 50W x both subwoofers= 100W (what you already had) or it will be calling for double the power (aproximately) and you better hope your amplifier can handle it... just not a good idea to mix and match subwoofers...

 

If it were me, i'd buy a 6.1 amp and call it a day... Paradigm isn't too shabby... but i do agree with Harmon Kardon being really good aswell... but for me, i'd go with an Elemental Designs A3-250 for an off the shelf sub.... would rather build my own tho

[stuntman]

I know this is a forum about fishing....but I will bite.

 

Whats wrong with what you have now?

 

To be honest, the description of the equipment you have is too vague. "Techniques 5.1,,,100watts per channel" and "Paradigm Sub I think 250 watts" mean squat. Even in a stereo forum no one is going to be able to give you a good answer even if you gave model numbers.

 

For example I am not a fan of any Cerwin Vega speakers, and can think of 5 brands I would buy before Cerwins. On the other hand others love them and I sold many in my time as a salesman (now ex-salesman)

 

It sounds like your system is hooked up to a TV....big screens have really dropped in price. DVD audio sounds amazing (but never took off even though no one can say any thing but positive things about it). Then there is always more fishing equip to buy.

 

Save the cash for a rainy day, boxing day or a day when you know what you want. Thats my opinion

 

Stuntman

[holdfast]

As I stated before, since I lost my speakers to salvage, either I use the 500 dollars or it goes back to our friendly neihbor hood insurance. Its to replace the ruined speakers however it can be used for other components for the stereo depending on the salesman/or I decide to to an exchange after the adjuster gets his sales slip. For stuntman, the reason I like this forum is its not only about fishing all the time. It can be informative for other things to us fisherman. Geez

[Fang]

Good points all around in the feedback

 

For really true balanced 5.1 or 7.1 sound your speakers especially your center channel should be as close to frequency balanced as possible. Putting different speakers together as fronts and backs will most likely put the sond response off just a tad. For a few years I ran a set of Yamos as my fronts and PSB's as backs. When I replaced with a basic Energy series, the surround sound for movies was way better.

 

You did not mention anything about a CD/DVD player. If you have a basic one put the money into a new one. Another area which makes huge improvements are cables. I spent $5/ft on speaker cables for my audio system (Intergra and Yamos) and it was like getting a whole new system.

[lookinforwalleye]

Good points all around in the feedback

 

For really true balanced 5.1 or 7.1 sound your speakers especially your center channel should be as close to frequency balanced as possible. Putting different speakers together as fronts and backs will most likely put the sond response off just a tad. For a few years I ran a set of Yamos as my fronts and PSB's as backs. When I replaced with a basic Energy series, the surround sound for movies was way better.

 

You did not mention anything about a CD/DVD player. If you have a basic one put the money into a new one. Another area which makes huge improvements are cables. I spent $5/ft on speaker cables for my audio system (Intergra and Yamos) and it was like getting a whole new system.

 

Those snakeoil audio sales guys love you guys that spend 5 a ft. for speaker wire that is without a doubt the biggest waste of money when it comes to audio all you need is some good ole 16 ga. copper wire that HD sells in bulk for 35 cents a foot.

[Headhunter]

Be careful with the Cerwin Vegas! They are typically a significantly more efficient speaker than most on the market and as such, you will have sound balance issues if your not running Vegas on all speakers.

I'd stick to the Paradigm (That's what I have) or PSB's (both manufactured in Canada)

As for the Panasonic vs the Denon... two different classes of applification so power ratings go right out of the window! The Denon is a much better machine. Same class as say a Yamaha or Marantz.

For the money, if you can find a dealer in your area, check out the Onkyo surround reciever... excellent sound and really good power supply built in... that's the main thing that usually goes first in audio equipment.

HH

[Fang]

If my speaker wire was copper, yes I agree it would be a waste at $5/ft. Different metals and alloy mixes transmit electrical signals much better than copper. Check out all the connections inside quality built speaker. They are all coated silver. Copper is cheap and plentiful but does not do a great job - sufficient yes but noticable when you upgrade, even to thicker copper it makes a difference.

 

First off you really have to have a system starting with an input device like a cd or dvd player (and turntable for you audiophiles) that can actually capture and transmit a quality signal. For the longest of times I tried different things with my old components and didn't hear any difference. I replaced my audio system a few years back and found renewed enjoyment

 

I knew this thread would take this turn but its what makes audio and fishing fun, the discussion and debate on preferences.

 

Second the recommednation on the Onkyo. Power supply can't be beat for the price points.

[SlowPoke]

The first question your salesman should ask is about room size, shape and design (layout).

The second question should be regarding usage (80% home theater / 20% music?)

 

Don't be skewed by power ratings, pay for quality and listen before you buy.

Good receivers for the money.... Denon, H-K, Yamaha

Good speakers for the money.... Paradigm, Jamo, PSB

A 5.1 system with a nicely matched speaker system will outperform a mis-matched 7.1 system

 

Are you looking to build towards a nice system and spending more in the near future or spend $500 and be done with it?

 

-Brian

[Guest lundboy]

If you are looking at a new receiver, someone mentioned that the power supply is the important factor. This is 100% true! One difference between a 100w/channel Panasonic/Technics/Sony/Harmon $400 range unit and an $1100+ Yamaha, Dennon, Marrantz, NAD is that the power supply is much more robust and capable of delivering sustained peak output (high amperage).

 

The hardest thing for a home theater receiver to do is delivery good quality music. The $400 amps will get very hot when playing music at mid volumes, because unlike movie sound tracks the amp has a continuous signal, which takes it's toll on the power supply and amp circuits causing distortion and clipping. Back in the day (1979-1984) Harmon Kardon used to a top shelf piece of audio equipment (like Luxman), now it is commodity mass produced to compete with Sony and give the impression to folks that they are getting quality. Even Yamaha and Dennon are iffy these days, trying to compete in the low end market. It all comes down to "branding" and price these days.

 

Almost every piece of equipment, be it audio, video, digital cameras, notebook computers, printers etc. are usually made by 2-3 companies in Asia deemed as an O.D.M. which stands for Original Design Manufacturer. So, all they do is come up with designs and product right from CAD to end product with no name on it. A buyer from let's say Pioneer or HP walks in to a huge factory showroom, says I want a device with this spec, in this colour. The Salesman points out a few devices, the buyer says I want 100,000 with our name "Brand" on it, make it exclusive. That's it! In about 4 months the latest 2008 Pioneer HT Receiver hits the market, or Latest HP InkJet hits the market. A real good example is Sunfire Audio "Designed by Bob Carver". They have a HT receiver called Theater Grand IV sells for $5000. They licensed the factory in China that pumps it out for them to sell a compatible unit called EMOTIVA that sells for $2500 exactly the same specs and back panel layout, except it weighs twice as much because it uses 2 discreet power supplies rather than the Sunfire design. The Amp is the same though. And Another that comes from the same factory is the Sherbourn again exactly the same specs and back panel $2800. Just in case you have doubts about branding, read this about notebooks: http://www.powernotebooks.com/articles/ind...lnews&id=17

 

Sometimes it's all in the name.

 

Speakers on the other hand are not quite just "branded". Paradigm and Axiom are two very highly rated speaker companies and they are both Canadian made and designed. Paradigm is modestly priced and good value, Axiom is more expensive but an excellent speaker.

 

For you to gain a noticeable difference (receiver wise) you would have to add about $600+ to your $500 allowance, and step up a notch. Other than that you won't get anything noticeably better.

 

I would put the money into a set of good bipolar rear speakers like Definitive's Bipoloar BP2X Surrounds about $500/pair. These will definitely make a difference in your music surround. Hopefully one of your 2 local dealers can get them. I've had a pair for about 7 years and they are with a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7s, a Paradigm 350 Center and a Paradigm 10" 100W Sub. Best surround speaker I could find for the price, much better than the Paradigm rears that I tested.

 

http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers...d/surround.html

 

As for speaker wire affecting sound.... as long as you have large enough gauge copper wire to support the amperage you are sending down the line, and keep the terminations oxide free, you will get the best sound out of your system. For 100+ watts per I would not go any smaller than 16gauge. Some of the best rated wire for speaker wire is electrical wire called CABTIRE. It's relatively cheap look it up on the web, and I guarantee you it will perform as well or better than any specialty audio wire for $5/foot.

Edited August 17, 2007 by lundboy

[holdfast]

Wow great answers guys. I'm leaning on the Denon Reciever to upgrade my 5 yr old techniques. At least I think it will be easier to set up to my Plasma and satellite receiver. The point about the DVD is what salesman 2 told me. He stated that there is a picture difference between today's DVDs and my 3 or 4 yr old DVD. I guess the new ones have 1050 or whatever better resolution. But I will still take and listen to other Opinions. Again I'm trying to do the best improvement for 500 or 600 dollars. Oh yea, the dealer also displayed on the Denon a 5.1 stereo. Would that be better sounding than what I used to have which was stereo with A and B tower speakers with the B's in the Rear.

[lookinforwalleye]

Wow great answers guys. I'm leaning on the Denon Reciever to upgrade my 5 yr old techniques. At least I think it will be easier to set up to my Plasma and satellite receiver. The point about the DVD is what salesman 2 told me. He stated that there is a picture difference between today's DVDs and my 3 or 4 yr old DVD. I guess the new ones have 1050 or whatever better resolution. But I will still take and listen to other Opinions. Again I'm trying to do the best improvement for 500 or 600 dollars. Oh yea, the dealer also displayed on the Denon a 5.1 stereo. Would that be better sounding than what I used to have which was stereo with A and B tower speakers with the B's in the Rear.

[/quot

 

Standard dvd`s output 480 lines of resolution be they brand new or 3 or 4 years old if you buy a new dvd player that outputs 480 lines of resolution I doubt you will notice a difference in video quality.Many years ago when dvd players were first introduced I purchased one and I still have today and the picture quality it produces is equal to my fancy new Yamaha dvd player as they both produce 480 lines or resolution.

If you want to recieve better quality resolution you will need a new dvd player that up converts the video signal with this technology you may see a slight increase in picture quality.When I tested upconverting dvd players I noticed no difference in picture quality.Your other option would be go with a HD dvd player and of course start re-building your movie collection.

[kennyman]

Those snakeoil audio sales guys love you guys that spend 5 a ft. for speaker wire that is without a doubt the biggest waste of money when it comes to audio all you need is some good ole 16 ga. copper wire that HD sells in bulk for 35 cents a foot.

 

 

Be careful with the Cerwin Vegas! They are typically a significantly more efficient speaker than most on the market and as such, you will have sound balance issues if your not running Vegas on all speakers.

I'd stick to the Paradigm (That's what I have) or PSB's (both manufactured in Canada)

As for the Panasonic vs the Denon... two different classes of applification so power ratings go right out of the window! The Denon is a much better machine. Same class as say a Yamaha or Marantz.

For the money, if you can find a dealer in your area, check out the Onkyo surround reciever... excellent sound and really good power supply built in... that's the main thing that usually goes first in audio equipment.

HH

First of all IMHO good cables (Cardas,Van Den Hul etc.) are not snake oil. With good equipment they can make,break or even help you tune your system. In my stereo (for music) I have noticed big differences from one cable to another and have converted more than one non believer. Great advice from many others here. I'd also stick with a Denon, Onkyo receiver or the like if you're building a budget system new. If you have a little more to spend you might try a Cambridge Azur http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?...%28Version+2%29 or buy a used setup of better quality than the average big box store system. . Here's a link to a great Canadian audio forum/classifieds that has a home theatre system section http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/650...theatre_packge/ . As far as speakers I personally like the NHT's and Energy's surround systems or if you're on even more of a budget the Athenas sound good if you don't really push them too hard. If I had more cash for speakers I'd buy a set of Totem Dreamcatchers http://www.totemacoustic.com/english/produ..._dreamcatch.htm . Heck, if I had tons of cash I'd get a couple Brystons and some Martin Logans ......... dreams ..... only dreams.