Spiel

....Thanks for a great field test report Garry, always nice to have input from knowlegable folks like yourself. As for the flipping feature, for me a must have when back trolling bottom bouncers, and vertical jigging lakers through the water column (ice and open water seasons).

Fishing company, captain fined for violations Friday January 16, 2009 Leamington Post A Lake Erie commercial fishing boat captain has been fined $4,500 and a Wheatley commercial fishing company fined $2,000 for commercial fishing violations. Pisces Fishery Incorporated of Wheatley is the owner of a commercial fishing licence. Jose Pacheco, 55, also of Wheatley, is the captain of the commercial fishing vessel ADCO II. In a Windsor court this week Pacheco and the company pleaded guilty to seven counts each of violating the terms and conditions of a commercial fishing licence. The charges stem from three separate incidents. An investigation by Ministry of Natural Resources officers found that between Jan. 6 and Feb. 23, 2007, and March 12 and March 18, 2008, Pacheco falsified his daily catch reports by recording incorrect information about where and for how long he set his gill nets. The conditions of Lake Erie commercial fishing licences require gill net users between January 1 and March 15 to have a working GPS unit on board their vessel. Ministry of Natural Resources enforcement staff are able to access readings from these units. The readings from the GPS unit on the ADCO II proved that the catch reports were false. On April 14 last year, conservation officers conducted an inspection of the ADCO II and discovered that Pacheco had not declared 150 kilograms of yellow perch he had caught

Parking lots for fishermen shouldn't be iced, says mayor Marilyn Pearce urges staff to continue looking at areas for anglers to park on Scugog Island Jan 14, 2009 Chris Hall / newsdurhamregion.com SCUGOG -- The cost of providing parking for ice fishermen may be trumped by the economic value those who enjoy dropping a line into Lake Scugog bring to the community. While certainly pleased on one hand with how strictly the municipality's bylaw department was patrolling roads on Scugog Island when it comes to policing where ice fishermen park their vehicles, Scugog's elected officials also agreed Monday that perhaps it was time to take a closer look at providing a pay-parking area for angling enthusiasts. According to a staff report, the municipality's bylaw department had issued 25 tickets for parking violations on Scugog Island roads since Jan. 1 -- the start of the 2009 ice-fishing season on Lake Scugog. "I'm pleased to see this report, this is ammunition when I get a call from (island residents) who say they never see bylaw around," said Ward 3 Councillor Lynn Philip Hodgson, who represents Scugog Island residents. Such patrols, explained bylaw officer Matt Balser, are carried out at random, at all times of day during the week. He added a batch of new parking restriction signs erected on some Scugog Island roads last year also seem to be working. "Motorists seem to be obeying all the signs," he said. When quizzed by Scugog Mayor Marilyn Pearce, however, it was pointed out by staff that efforts to make arrangements with officials at Goreski's Lakeside Resort to set up a pay-parking area have not panned out to date. Simply, explained Gene Chartier, the Township's commissioner of planning and public works, Goreski's officials did not want to pick up the cost of plowing the lot or installing signs -- an added expense staff did not think the municipality would want to cover either. The mayor, however, pointed out the municipality should be looking at "how we can improve all aspects of tourism and ice fishing is part of tourism." She then requested staff touch base with Goreski's officials to see how many vehicles could be accommodated at the site, what it would cost to park there, how parking fees would be enforced and who would collect such charges. "I don't think we should simply walk away," said Mayor Pearce. "The opportunity for people to park their cars safely and proceed to ice fish is something I don't think we should dismiss." She later added, "Let's take seriously this idea of parking lots for ice fishermen and where they are. Let's look at what those costs actually could be."

TAKING THE NEXT STEP TO PROTECT LAKE SIMCOE McGuinty Government Asks Ontarians To Comment On Protection Plan News Release / January 13, 2009 NEWS The province is asking Ontarians to comment on the draft Lake Simcoe Protection Plan. The draft protection plan represents the next step in protecting Lake Simcoe and follows the passage of the Lake Simcoe Protection Act on December 10, 2008. Building on Ontario’s watershed-protection approach in the Clean Water Act, the new act requires the province to establish a protection plan for the lake and surrounding areas. The draft Lake Simcoe Protection Plan is the most comprehensive watershed-based legislated plan in Canada. The draft plan is based on advice from the Lake Simcoe science and stakeholder advisory committees and from the people who live and work around Lake Simcoe. The draft plan proposes voluntary and mandatory measures to restore and protect the ecological health of Lake Simcoe and its watershed starting with the most critical areas: - Improving water quality by curbing the amount of phosphorus entering the lake and reducing the lake’s current excessive phosphorus levels to 44 tonnes a year - Protecting and rehabilitating fish habitat, wetlands, woodlands and the vegetation that buffer the lake, rivers and streams - Managing the potential impacts of climate change and invasive species. Going forward the plan would not be applied to existing developments or development proposals that have already obtained significant development approvals. The Ontario government has also committed $20 million over four years to help protect Lake Simcoe through research, monitoring and on-farm stewardship activities. QUOTES “The approach we are taking is intended to ensure the long-term health of the lake and its watershed ecosystem,” said Environment Minister John Gerretsen. “We need everyone from around the lake to participate in this process and make this plan work so that future generations can continue to enjoy this wonderful resource,” he added. QUICK FACTS Human activities have been affecting the Lake Simcoe ecosystem for more than 200 years. Lake Simcoe’s watershed crosses 23 municipal boundaries including Barrie, parts of York and Durham regions, Kawartha Lakes and Simcoe County. Thirty-five rivers flow into Lake Simcoe including the Holland River, Black River, Beaver River, Pefferlaw River and Uxbridge Brook. LEARN MORE Learn more about protecting Lake Simcoe. Contacts: John Karapita, Minister’s Office, 416-314-6736 Kate Jordan, Ministry of the Environment, 416-314-6666 Contact information for the general public: 416-325-4000 or 1-800-565-4923/ www.ontario.ca/environment

January 15, 2009 State of Grand River fishery meeting The results of a 10-year plan to improve the Grand River watershed fishery will be discussed at a public meeting on Jan. 21 at the head office of the Grand River Conservation Authority, 400 Clyde Rd., Cambridge. The meeting, which will run from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. will outline the work that has been done to implement the Grand River Fisheries Management Plan and give those attending an opportunity to talk about future directions for the fishery. Over the past 10 years the Grand River system has enjoyed a rebirth as a great place for anglers. Much of the improvement has come about as a result of the implementation of the recommendations of the plan. It was released in 1998 by the GRCA and the Ministry of Natural Resources after extensive consultation with anglers, fishing groups and residents of the Grand River watershed. The meeting will include these presentations: - Overview of the Grand River Fisheries Management Plan - MNR projects in the Central Grand - Volunteer projects in the Central Grand - Water Quality conditions - Management of the GRCA reservoir system In addition to the presentations, there will be a variety of displays on fishery and environmental issues. More information on the plan and the Grand River fishery is available in the Fisheries section of the GRCA website. This meeting is the second in a series of five to take information to the public and gather comments on the 10th anniversary of the fishery plan. A meeting was held in Elora on Jan. 7. Other meetings will be held in Brantford on Feb. 3, Dunnville Feb. 16 and Six Nations on March 18. Further information: Dave Schultz, GRCA Manager of Communications Phone: (519) 621-2763, Ext. 2273 Fax: (519) 621-4844 E-mail: [email protected]

....Sweeeeet, I definitely needs to get back up there!

....Moving on up. Perhaps I could interest you in doing fishing seminars next?

....It'll be winter year round when I perfect my Bose-Einstein condensate.

2008 was the year man-made global warming was disproved

....It would seem that it has come time again to remind some that we have guidelines for images in the signature line. If your signature line excedes the following criteria would you please make the necessary modifications to meet the parameters outlined. From the Rules.... "One image in a signature is allowed. Images in signatures must not be greater than 500 pixels wide and 75 pixels in height. Signature images must not be more than 100K in file size. Signatures must also conform to language and content guidelines. Please keep signature lines brief, a line or two of text is fine. No lists!" Image Size Example While we appreciate the work involved in creating unique signature images and text it is important to not let them become the focus of your posts. Think small. Thank you.

More species invasions feared for Great Lakes January 9th, 2009 John Flesher / Associated Press Dozens of foreign species could spread across the Great Lakes in coming years despite policies designed to keep them out, causing significant environmental and economic damage, a federal report says. The National Center for Environmental Assessment issued the warning in a study released this week. It identified 30 nonnative species that pose a medium or high risk of reaching the lakes and 28 others that already have a foothold and could disperse widely. Among the fish that scientists fear could cause ecological and environmental damage are the monkey goby, the blueback herring and the tench, also known as the “doctor fish.” The report described some of the region’s busiest ports as strong potential targets for invaders, including Toledo, Ohio; Gary, Ind.; Duluth, Minn.; Superior, Wis.; Chicago and Milwaukee. “These findings support the need for detection and monitoring efforts at those ports believed to be at greatest risk,” the report said. Exotic species are one of the biggest ecological threats to the nation’s largest surface freshwater system. At least 185 are known to have a presence in the Great Lakes, although the report says just 13 have done extensive harm to the aquatic environment and the regional economy. Perhaps the most notorious are the fish-killing sea lamprey and the zebra mussel, which has clogged intake pipes of power plants, industrial facilities and public water systems, forcing them to spend hundreds of millions on cleanup and repairs. Roughly two-thirds of the new arrivals since 1960 are believed to have hitched a ride to the lakes inside ballast tanks of cargo ships from overseas ports. For nearly two decades, U.S. and Canadian agencies have required oceangoing freighters to exchange their fresh ballast water with salty ocean water before entering the Great Lakes system. Both nations also recently have ordered them to rinse empty tanks with seawater in hopes of killing organisms lurking in residual pools on the bottom. Despite such measures, “it is likely that nonindigenous species will continue to arrive in the Great Lakes,” said the report by the national center, which is part of the Environmental Protection Agency. Some saltwater-tolerant species may survive ballast water exchange and tank flushing, it said. And aquatic invaders could find other pathways to the lakes — perhaps escaping from fish farms or being released from aquariums. The report does not predict which species might get through. Instead, it urges government resource managers to monitor waters under their jurisdiction in hopes of spotting attacks in time to choke them off. “Early detection is crucial,” said Vic Serveiss, a scientist with the National Center for Environmental Assessment and the report’s primary writer. Hugh MacIsaac, a University of Windsor biologist and director of the Canadian Aquatic Invasive Species Network, said he expected very few invaders to reach the Great Lakes in ballast water now that both nations are requiring tank flushing at sea. Flushing and ballast water exchange should kill 99 percent of organisms, he said. “I would be very surprised if their prediction comes true,” he said, referring to the EPA report’s suggestion that numerous invaders could reach the lakes despite the new ballast rules. The report reinforces the need for further measures to keep foreign species out, including requiring onboard technology to sterilize ballast tanks, said Jennifer Nalbone, invasive species director for the advocacy group Great Lakes United. “We are only beginning to invest the tremendous amount of resources needed,” Nalbone said. “We’re being hammered by invasive species and are still woefully behind.” National Center for Environmental Assessment

Beaver Lake bass spawning habitat January 9th, 2009 Anthony S.C. Hampton / Napanee Guide Beaver Lake bass spawning habitat improvements underway in January A project to improve spawning conditions for bass in Beaver Lake near Erinsville will go ahead this month. According to Lennox & Addington County manager of roads and bridges Steve Roberts, the project is being carried out under the direction of the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans as part of the HADD program. “It’s the Harmful Alteration Damage or Destruction to Natural Habitat program. In 2007 we did the Puzzle Lake Bridge road reconstruction on County Rd. 15. This displaced the bass spawning beds there,” said Roberts. After consulting with the DFO and biologists, the site in Beaver Lake was selected to make up for the displaced spawning beds from Puzzle Lake. “They have directed that compensation be located on Beaver Lake, adjacent to highway 41 in Erinsville. “What we’ll be doing is creating five spawning beds. The DFO felt this was a more productive and beneficial location to restore spawning.” In building up the spawning beds, workers will lay wash stone, varying from 1.5 to 3.5 centimetres thick. The stones are selected to create the optimal spawning environment for the bass. “The volume of stone is about 250 tonnes, and that will be placed over the five spawning beds. The gross area is approximately 140 square metres total, which means the five areas are about 28 square metres each.” Although it might seem work like this would be better suited to warmer months, the project is timed so that the stone can be placed on top of the ice. “The wash stone will be placed on the ice, then it will settle into the lake bottom in the spring. Primarily, this is because of current issues. Letting it sink in the spring allows it to naturally settle.”We’ve done this in several other locations over the winter, the material has a more natural ability to settle.” By allowing the stone to sink to the bottom, it will be naturally located where it is least likely to be shifted later by currents. The stones are also protected from quick cover by sedimentation. All of this improves the chances for bass that will use the habitat to lay their eggs and then spawn. “For those reasons, the DFO directed that this be done under winter conditions.” Work on the new bass habitat is being carried out in several phases, with an overall, up-front cost to the county of $15,000. The project has already been approved for shared funding, however, so the federal and provincial governments will be reimbursing the county for $10,000 total. According to Roberts, the work is set to be completed sometime between Jan. 6 and Jan. 16. For more information, contact the County of Lennox & Addington at 613-354-4883 or the project manager, G.D. Jewell Engineering of Belleville, at 613-969-1111.

Veteran captain hooks monster walleye January 11, 2009 Will Elliott / www.buffalonews.com Lake Erie charter captains see many sizeable fish while working eastern-basin areas of this great lower Great Lake for walleyes. Bob Rustowicz cruised that chartering circuit for more than two decades, trolling likely walleye waters from Buffalo to Barcelona and using the VHF handle “Forever Fishin’.” Excitement was always high when he and his clients hooked into limit catches, often with monster ’eyes weighing in well over the 10-pound mark. Despite all this time spent netting nice Erie ’eyes, his excitement level was that of a kid with his first big bass, trout or salmon when he called Wednesday evening after returning from an ice-fishing outing in the Big Bay area of the Bay of Quinte at the northeast corner of Lake Ontario east of Toronto. “Capt. Bob” and partner Tony Zogaria, both of Cheektowaga, hauled in some nice walleyes during their two-day stint on Quinte ice. “We weren’t getting any big fish but a lot of nice ones up to about seven pounds, and I saw a couple others [walleye] that might hit 10 pounds,” Rustowicz said of the fishing and catching going on before he hooked into the biggest walleye of his fishing lifetime. Bay of Quinte walleye schools had been the darling of summer and winter anglers decades ago. The Lindner brothers, Babe Winkelman, and other anglers in the national media focused many a camera lens on bull-sized ’eyes — mainly monster female walleye — caught through Quinte ice in the 1980s and early 1990s. Fishing pressure and changing fishery conditions there saw a decline in both numbers and sizes of ’eyes for more than a decade. But those conditions have improved in recent years. Ask Rustowicz. Included in the two-day limit catch he and Zogaria brought home Wednesday afternoon was a walleye taken on Tuesday. “It went 13.95-pounds on a digital scale late Wednesday, so it’s definitely a 14-pounder,” Rustowicz said of his 32-inch massive mount-worthy monster. “That one will definitely go on the wall,” he said of his personal-best walleye. The Lake Simcoe pack has been plagued with a run of runts in recent years, but the dink-to-keeper ratio has moved in favor of keeper numbers at the start of this ice fishing season. Ask Gene Borowicz of Cambria and John Ashe of Pendleton. Borowicz and Ashe booked a two-day trip with Steve Barber of Steve’s Fish Huts at Pefferlaw last week, and the duo did well on 10-inch-plus perch both days. “The bite was constant all morning till night. We released more than 300 and kept 85 [larger ones],” Borowicz wrote. He noted the perch moved in tighter schools during afternoon hours, but the bite was solid all day. “They’ve been doing best on live minnows, but the jack/J-hooks [small, spoon-blade baits] also work well now,” Barber said of the past week’s perch catching.

....Good stuff guys (and Gal). I had a few friends in Gilford on Friday who said it was crazy with fish. Just lots of small ones to weed through.

....Great, more chinooks.

....I used to fish out of "The Pines" not far up the road from Barrie. Lake trout and whitefish primarily. Run by the Chilmans (?), good folks. Not sure if they're still in buisness but I did find a listing on the net. The Pines 705-487-3305 RR #1, Oro Station, Ontario L0L 2E0

....An introduction, some background information, anything. Clarity is usually a good thing on a Saturday morning.

....Hmmmmm, ???????????

Well good luck with that.

....I suggest you go by the....oh hell I dunno? I think an "'09 OFC Tourney" logo will work for now till teams have been selected.

....Hey Jamie. Well 2009 is here and perhaps it'll be a better one for you and hopefully me. Glad you made it back.

....Well things are already being implemented (thanks Roy) and you probably should document anything you catch starting...................NOW!

Lake-saving material being tested Dec 31, 2008 Janis Ramsay / www.innisfiljournal.com The middle of the winter might not be a time to think about splashing around in the water, but the Lake Simcoe Regional Conservation Authority is doing just that. Phosphorous is still a problem in Lake Simcoe, and the conservation authority has a new solution on the horizon. Staff has just finished a pilot project to test phoslock – a clay-based material meant to absorb the phosphorous (nitrogen) in the water. It’s the first time it has been tested in Canada. “We had two projects and we’re evaluating the results,” said David Lembke, senior environmental monitoring scientist. The tests were done at the Cane Parkway Stormwater Quality Pond in Newmarket and a reservoir at the Scanlon Creek Conservation Area in Bradford. Those areas were picked because there’s little chance any water from those ponds will reach the watercourse, said Lembke. Phoslock is sprayed on the water after it’s mixed into a slurry, then it settles through the water. The important ingredient, Lanthanum, attracts phosphorous and locks it away from the water, so weeds and algae can’t use it to grow, said Lembke. It settles in a less-than paper-thin layer. In a similar way, Lanthanum is used by kidney disease patients to get rid of phosphates in their blood. Phosphorous isn’t good in a lake because it feeds weeds and algae, causing an overabundance of plant life. When those plants die, they decay and in turn absorb oxygen at the bottom of the lake. That means little fish can’t stay along the bottom of the lake to hide from predators, so they are also killed off. The conservation authority did jar tests of phoslock first, which showed no harmful impacts, but Lembke said a real-world environment also had to be tested. “It’s widely used in Australia and Europe and has gone through a lot of tests there. We wanted to test to be thorough.” All summer and into November, staff monitored water quality and algae content. Right now, various ministry officials are looking at the results, to be sure there’s no harmful impact to the ecosystem. The summer of 2008 had quite a bit of rain, which might skew some of the results, said Lembke. So a second test period is expected next summer. “We’d like to see it under different environmental conditions.” Phoslock is just one of many plans to combat phosphorous in Lake Simcoe. The province passed the Lake Simcoe Protection Act Dec. 1. That means $50 million in funding from provincial and federal levels of government will help clean up the lake. Lembke said waterfront residents can also do their part to protect the water, and there may be some financial assistance for changes made. For more information, go to www.lsrca.on.ca or call 905-895-1281.

Pro bass fishing's in a boatload of sponsorship trouble Sunday, January 04, 2009 Mike Bolton / www.al.com Pro bass fisherman Randy Howell watched with limited interest on New Year's Day as Georgia trounced Michigan State in football. The smoked turkey he had brought got most of his attention. The upcoming Bassmaster Classic in which Howell will participate finally became a topic of conversation but that talk didn't last long. The unknown future of the 2009 Bassmaster season was obviously heavy on his mind. The parallels between NASCAR and pro bass fishing are remarkable but none are as key as both being sponsor-driven sports. The crumbling economy that has caused many NASCAR sponsors to flee is hitting equally hard in the professional fishing world. Professional bass fishing hit it big only after plastic worm and hard-plastic lure manufacturers were replaced by big-buck corporations as primary sponsors. With an economy that has caused all major companies to tighten their advertising reins, I suppose it was only natural that pro fishing would suffer. The professional fishing circuit, many companies have decided, isn't where they can get the biggest bang for their buck. The savvy Howell was one of the first to land a major sponsor outside of the fishing industry. His years-long association with Purolator opened the eyes of many pro anglers to the vast possibilities. But that sponsorship deal will be no more in 2009. "Everybody is losing sponsors," Howell said. "Greg Hackney and Marty Stone have lost Advance Auto Parts. GE Silicone has pulled out. "The fishermen are losing sponsors. BASS is losing sponsors. "We're keeping the lure companies but the big, non-endemic sponsors are saying they can't do it right now." Just as it takes a lot of sponsorship money to put a NASCAR Sprint Cup Series car on the track, it takes a boatload of money to fish on the professional circuit. Those anglers fishing on the Elite Series this year will pay $57,500 just in entry fees. Toss in expenses such as gas, lodging and meals and the costs can push $100,000. Howell says he spent $85,000 last year just to fish tournaments. "The bad part is that it comes on the heels of what was a tough year because of the gas prices," he said. "You pull a boat across the country and spend days running a boat when gas is close to $4 a gallon and it just about killed everybody." Howell believes the top 25 or 30 established anglers will struggle but survive. He says for the newcomers to the sport, the future will be questionable. "Sponsors are spending their money more wisely," he said. "They can't take a chance of getting a return on their dollar with a rookie." Howell says he and others are now focusing their sponsorship sights not on the big companies that pumped so many dollars into the sport in recent years but on independent companies that might want to get a better bargain on their advertising dollar. He isn't getting any takers yet. It just isn't a good time for the fishing industry. The major boat sponsors on the circuit - Ranger, Triton and Skeeter - were all off 17 percent or more in sales in 2008, Howell said. Regardless, he's headed to the Classic next month on the Red River in Shreveport, La., with his best opportunity ever to win bass fishing's biggest event. "It's perfect for my style of fishing," he said. "There are rocks and wood everywhere. I'm a shallow-water junk fisherman. If we can get a little bit of warm weather, it should be good. "The place is full of 3- to 6-pound fish. We'll probably see one of the biggest catches ever in a Classic."

‘09 must be better for lakes January 6th, 2009 / Traverse City Record-Eagle When it was finally over, 2008 was a good year for the Great Lakes. But work remains. Lake levels rose after nearing historic lows, a historic agreement to protect the lakes was approved by the Great Lakes states and Congress and the nation elected a president from a Lake Michigan state who is expected to give greater credence to science-based concerns, the environment in general and the lakes. Just a few weeks ago Congress adopted and President Bush signed a long-awaited Great Lakes compact aimed at limiting water diversions and managing state, federal and Canadian water policies. In addition to limiting diversions, the compact also calls on the eight Great Lakes states to regulate their own water use, including withdrawals for drinking water; Traverse City, for instance, draws its drinking water from the East Arm of Grand Traverse Bay. The compact requires such communities to meet rigorous requirements for managing water use. There is still work to do, however, and it needs to begin now. Although it was a huge step forward, the compact still contains a major diversion loophole that must be immediately addressed. During the last stages of actually writing the compact it was changed to exempt water diversions — make that sales — in containers of less than 5.7 gallons. While the move was defended as a minor wrinkle by compact defenders, environmental attorney Jim Olson of Traverse City pointed out that such a designation could be construed as declaring Great Lakes water a commodity and stripping it of the protections the compact supposedly provided — not to mention opening lake waters to bottling companies selling it in containers up to 5.7 gallons. U.S. Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Menominee, whose district includes portions of lakes Superior, Michigan and Huron, felt so strongly about the loophole that he voted against the compact as a whole. New wording to close the 5.7-gallon loophole must immediately be adopted. High on the agenda of the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama and Congress, then, must be closing that gap, no matter how much the lobbyists for the bottled water industry howl. What seems now to be a trickle could grow to a flood as parched states probe the compact for ways to get at the largest concentration of fresh water in the world. Once a federal court decides that the rules that cover other commodities also cover water, watch out. The federal government also needs to put some teeth into a new policy announced at the end of the year. The Environmental Protection Agency announced a requirement that commercial ships must dump ballast water at sea or rinse their tanks if they’re empty in an effort to prevent invasive foreign species from entering the Great Lakes and other U.S. waters. On its face, it appears to be the regulation activists have long hoped for. The announcement came after years of foot-dragging by the EPA and the U.S. Coast Guard and the flat-out refusal by both agencies to enforce federal Clean Water Act regulations and federal court decrees in relation to Great Lakes shipping. In reality, however, the new requirement falls far short of regulations that would force ships to install systems for sterilizing ballast tanks to kill aquatic creatures. Though other countries have long approved similar standards, we haven’t. Critics derided the new rules as a “rinse and spit” solution that would still allow the 61,000 domestic and 8,000 foreign-flagged vessels that ply the lakes every year to continue to bring invasive species into the lakes. Obviously, there are changes to be made, and if Great Lakes activists are going to make further headway, this seems the time. The anti-science Bush administration is on the way out, the Compact has just been signed and we’re getting a president who knows water issues. Stupak, Olson and others have work yet to do; if it’s ever going to get done, 2009 seems the time.