Some things I wonder about the COVID-19 pandemic

[MJIG]

o Why do some otherwise healthy adults develop severe illness, even if they aren’t elderly and have no other known medical conditions?

o In the “old-normal” world, kids were notorious for touching everything with their hands and in really young kids, even with their mouths. Hand-washing wasn’t at the top of their list. Kids have a lower number of infections (1% to 6% based on data from countries where such sampling has been done (https://www.cps.ca/en/documents/position/current-epidemiology-and-guidance-for-covid-19-march-2020) despite their “touch everything” and typical lack of physical distancing. I’m thankful that their outcome is almost always extremely good when they do get it, likely because of their fast-acting immune systems.

o What is the percentage of ventilated people coming off ventilators due to recovery vs the percentage of ventilated people that died?

o What are we going to do if/when a virus comes along that has a higher percentage mortality in the general population than this one? People will truly be afraid to shop and keep the supply chains open. Everybody will want PPE. If we learn from this round, it sounds like there should be massive, redundant stockpiles of PPE established across the country for the “next time.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by MJIG

[Headhunter]

It's my understanding that 20% who go on ventilator survive... 80% don't. There has been chatter that ventilators may well be the wrong approach to this virus.

HH

[Terry]

ventilators keep them alive but do nothing to cure them or make them better , they hope if they keep them alive a while longer their immune system may kick in and cure them 

[Dutch01]

22 minutes ago, Headhunter said:

It's my understanding that 20% who go on ventilator survive... 80% don't. There has been chatter that ventilators may well be the wrong approach to this virus.

HH

I have read numbers from 50 - 80% on ventilators die.

I think that number will come down because I am hearing about more positive outcomes when ventilated patients are flipped to their stomachs. Time will tell.

@MJIG it's my understanding that in the true absence of any underlying health conditions, otherwise healthy patients who have negative outcomes are suffering from an immune reaction called a "cytokine storm".

There is still a lot to learn about this virus so take that with a grain of salt until confirmed.

A quick read on cytokine storms:

 

https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Dutch01

[Old Ironmaker]

I've always promised not to do 2 things on the Internet, 1) Practice law and 2) Practice medicine. 

MJIG, I'm sure there are many medical sites that will answer your exact questions. I have some answers I think are correct but won't even offer them up as that is how rumours start. Someone here reads it and repeats it to 2 more people but don't say that they read it from what a retired Steelworker on a fishing website wrote, and before you know it we have started a rumour. 

[woodenboater]

I know it's apples and oranges, but as someone who has had asthma, lying down on my back was the absolute worst. Sitting upright helped way more and offered more relief. still keep a puffer as an EDC, but seldom use it now. For those who've never had an asthma attack, imagine a sumo wrestler sitting on your chest. and not getting up

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by woodenboater

[Old Ironmaker]

54 minutes ago, Dutch01 said:

I have read numbers from 50 - 80% on ventilators die.

I think that number will come down because I am hearing about more positive outcomes when ventilated patients are flipped to their stomachs. Time will tell.

@MJIG it's my understanding that in the true absence of any underlying health conditions, otherwise healthy patients who have negative outcomes are suffering from an immune reaction called a "cytokine storm".

There is still a lot to learn about this virus so take that with a grain of salt until confirmed.

A quick read on cytokine storms:

 

https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/

 

 

 

I don't know who I listen to and what I read is to believed these days. I didn't read the article. If I don't recognize the author or something on a reputable news source I tend to not bother. Even when a reputable news source publishes something we can't tell if it's legit. Fake websites passing themselves off as real. 

[Dutch01]

Just now, Old Ironmaker said:

I don't know who I listen to and what I read is to believed these days. I didn't read the article. If I don't recognize the author or something on a reputable news source I tend to not bother. Even when a reputable news source publishes something we can't tell if it's legit. Fake websites passing themselves off as real. 

I read the definition of cytokine storm provided in the link before posting it.  It is accurate, up to you if you want to read it or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[MJIG]

1 hour ago, Dutch01 said:

A quick read on cytokine storms:

https://www.newscientist.com/term/cytokine-storm/

Thanks for the info. 

[Old Ironmaker]

4 minutes ago, woodenboater said:

I know it's apples and oranges, but as someone who has had asthma, lying down on my back was the absolute worst. Sitting upright helped way more and offered more relief. still keep a puffer as an EDC, but seldom use it now. For those who've never had an asthma attack, imagine a sumo wrestler sitting on your chest. and not getting up

 

 

My wife suffered badly from asthma when I met her 28 years ago. It was terrible for her and I felt helpless. Many times I thought she was going to turn blue and just stop breathing. Now and for the last 20 years her puffers best before date goes by and she hardly has had to use it. Thank God she is almost cured.The only difference from then and now is that we moved from the heart of downtown in Hamilton on the 18th floor of a high rise to moving out to the country. What a co incidence eh? Do you feel better when you are out in the country? 

[Old Ironmaker]

16 minutes ago, Dutch01 said:

I read the definition of cytokine storm provided in the link before posting it.  It is accurate, up to you if you want to read it or not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I value your opinion Dutch, I don't always agree however. If you think it's a valuable read I am going to read it. I love your home made imogee. I am famous or was for doing my shoulder shrug when the poop hit the fan and it was sort of my "I told you so" body language." As well as many other statements with a simple shrug of my shoulders. 

It took me longer to type this post than read the article, twice. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Old Ironmaker

[Dutch01]

Thanks - I'm normally careful.about understanding the sources I reference.

For this link it's really just a short definition which I was satisfied with after reading it. I didn't vet the rest of the site so buyer beware 😂

[Dutch01]

16 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

My wife suffered badly from asthma when I met her 28 years ago. It was terrible for her and I felt helpless. Many times I thought she was going to turn blue and just stop breathing. Now and for the last 20 years her puffers best before date goes by and she hardly has had to use it. Thank God she is almost cured.The only difference from then and now is that we moved from the heart of downtown in Hamilton on the 18th floor of a high rise to moving out to the country. What a co incidence eh? Do you feel better when you are out in the country? 

Air pollution is a huge contributing factor for asthma. You did the right thing heading for the country.

I saw a video the other day (can't remember where) that said living in a city with high levels of air pollution qualifies as a "pre-existing condition" with regard to COVID-19.

[Old Ironmaker]

Back in 1990 I rented an apt. on the 36th floor in Hamilton's tallest building in the middle of downtown. I once had inadvertently brought home a carbon monoxide detector. I went out on the balcony took some readings and it showed an average of 100 parts per million of C0 in the atmosphere. It was a hot, humid smoggy day. If C0 readings were 35 PPM at the plant several precautions had to be taken for anyone to work in the area. The human body wasn't designed to live within the environment we have created or should I say destroyed. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Old Ironmaker

[woodenboater]

35 minutes ago, Old Ironmaker said:

 Do you feel better when you are out in the country? 

nah, same as here. used to get cold induced asthma in the winter, that sucked bags. so everything is fine now, thankfully. take care and stay safe

[Old Ironmaker]

7 minutes ago, woodenboater said:

nah, same as here. used to get cold induced asthma in the winter, that sucked bags. so everything is fine now, thankfully. take care and stay safe

Sorry you can't get any relief from the thing. Does dry air help i.e. Arizona. I know it helped my bones and it did seem to help with Ticha's breathing somewhat. She loves biking but she gets short of breath doing it here and in Florida, in Mesa she could ride for long periods without getting too winded.  40 years ago when folks said "If you don't have your health you have nothing." I didn't really know what they meant then but sure do now. When I took my very early pension from the plant at 45 years young I might have taken an extra strength Tylenol once in a while for my busted up knees. Now I can't fit in one hand all the stuff I am on. Pain creams plus 2 needles a day. You also take care and stay safe.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Old Ironmaker

[woodenboater]

OI- no,  I'm good. don't use puffer anymore (but keep with me just in case), and asthma is rare occurrence now.

[Old Ironmaker]

That's good Woodenboater. I have always meant to ask, do you have a wooden boat? On a different car forum I am JD Ferrari, I don't have one nor have I ever even sat in one. A bucket list thing. I grew up with a guy that did have a Ferrari, he was a big time drug dealer and he and his ride went to Kingston for a time out. Apparently not a very savy drug dealer. Ironworkers must have been making big bucks in the 90's in Hamilton to drive a Ferrari red Ferrari. Something I didn't know, Ferrari has dozens of different reds they paint their cars in Ferrari red. 

Going on 48 hours no cigarettes, hee haw. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Old Ironmaker