Arrrrgh! Ghost net found with 200 rotting fish.

[Spanky80]

Maybe this should be left to those that live north of the boarder here.

These are everyday people living the present up there.

 

Those of us that live north of the border see what is actually going on, instead of relying on our use of the internet , knowledge of treaties and the media. We see blue eyed blond haired "First Nations" taking large walleye out of the Ottawa River full of spawn and over the maximum length, but the OPP and MNR sit in their boat do not enforce the laws because there is no point and they are told not to. We see the fish being sold, not being used to feed a "starving" family or for "ceremonial purposes". We see "First Nations" taking deer and moose with no regard to conservation. It has nothing to do with tradition, as they are taken in non-traditional ways, ie NOT with a bow and arrow...

 

You can say that these people do not represent First Nations, however it is YOUR leaders who have fought for these "interpretations of the law" to allow this to continue.

 

We are all CANADIANS. Equal. It is time our laws represented this.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Spanky

[bushart]

Maybe this should just be allowed to be investigated by the proper authorities and let them determine who is to blame

 

But getting on here and pointing fingers on a hunch and pre-conceived judgements---not cool

 

So am I to think that a certain ethnic group is all bad because they are the "White Bucket" crowd?

 

What about "That" Race that likes to rip sturgeon eggs---they all bad?

 

I understand that Irish gang drink too much ....I hear ya snickerin

 

I do know with some certainty that today's angler is better educated and if not responsible--the numbers that hit Nip could have a very detrimental impact---this group seems to be left out of the finger pointing

 

And Re; Art havin a say---I'm thinkin in an ever shrinking world---and If many of us are gonna have opinions like The Gulf Oil Spill etc that are out of "our" realm---outside objective opinions may help----we are one planet---borders are soon to mean less with environmental impacts----especially if we wish to survive

 

Course like always...I could be wrong

[Bernie]

To me this is not a case of racism, simply a case of right or wrong, no matter who is doing it.
I don't think I have a raciest bone in my body, brought up that way.
I think there are fellows here that will attest to this.

There are great people in this world and bad ones too, no matter where they are from.

[aplumma]

None taken Brian I am not moderating this for the topic or the discussion but from the rules.

 

Debate is encouraged, but please follow the basic guidelines of debate. No name calling. Back up your claims with proof. Don't get your knickers in a knot if someone disagrees. KEEP IT CIVIL!

Things that will not be tolerated. Flaming, baiting, name calling, prejudice, racism, sexism, sexual comments and inuendos, swearing, spam, and general boorishness.

 

 

If we started debating purple crayons and calling each other stupid it will get locked as well.

 

 

 

 

Art

[Gerritt]

I will be the first to say that Bernie is correct. Him like most of us here (I hope) make judgement upon what we think is fact, and what we have experienced as history.

 

Not race. That said there is a history involved here... Which is leaning towards a group given previous incidences, eye to eye occorances, as well as rights no one else has. As well as a clear defiance of the law ie. smoke shacks

 

History and real time incidences I believe are fuelling this indifference.... Not race.

 

And certainly B is the furthest from a racist from anyone I know.... Opinion based upon seeing it in real life and history have merit.

 

Art, for someone to stifle the speech of those that have a stake in this fishery, being those that live there and those of us that are tourists, yourself and I included, would be detrimental in my opinion... As then no one has a voice, and the same old continues. Are you or I attending meetings in Regards to the fishery? But perhaps by voicing our opinions here our voice may have meaning when it is mentioned ontarios largest fishing community is not happy?

 

Just my meaningless 0.05 cents

 

G

[bushart]

My Purple Crayola Iz Bigger dan yours...na nana na

 

Shut up Bushart Your bein stupid again...

 

Am Not!

 

Too!

 

The world...Sheeza flat!!

 

Ok Back to your regularly programmed serious thread

[aplumma]

What part of follow the rules is so difficult? I have never moderated/locked a thread for the content. I have locked many for people breaking the rules. Any further questions on this can be answered in P.M.s so as to not detract from this thread.

 

Thanks

 

Art

[Gerritt]

What part of follow the rules is so difficult? I have never moderated/locked a thread for the content. I have locked many for people breaking the rules. Any further questions on this can be answered in P.M.s so as to not detract from this thread.

 

Thanks

 

Art

Agreed, I feel you have for the most part been always fair.

[bushart]

I was just takin a little fun and lightening the mood actually at my own expense

 

Thinking if people are laughing---they may view the world at a different angle

 

This whole thread could potentially hit the skids in a heartbeat----first glance looks like ----one group is getting something and another group is not

 

Human nature hackles up at this scenario every time---try bringing up Quebec in a provincial conversation---see where it goes

 

Me-- I try and take that extra step back and look at the bigger picture

 

yes one group is getting fishing and hunting opportunities-----but compared to much of our modern society---what opportunities are they going without

 

Many of the standards we could not fathom being without----trade off---maybe

 

But tolerance and trying to understand another viewpoint goes a long way

 

Maybe as crosshairs indicates---this is not about race---but rather addiction----that hits home everywhere--and crosses every Ethnic line

 

Back in 1979---I lived on a Res In Northern Saskatchewan----they used to draw the town's drinking water from the lake----every week--a custodian would show up and pour several bottles of Javex bleach into the system----hardly scientific----likely unhealthy---as shown by the dissentary outbreaks---but hey---they did'nt have a limit on their catch

 

Walk that mile in another's shoes-----check for blisters at the end

[Fisherman]

I had a little PM conversation with another member, something I mentioned to him that might be brought forward here for discussion. Instead of running a commercial fishery, why has the thought not come across to help or start them into fishing lodges or cottages. I would guess that the biomass removed from the lake would be much less. FN people would still be employed in a gainful manner and run their business. I think it's a possibility that would be a win/win for all involved.

[Nipfisher]

http://www.bobgoulais.com/index.php/2014/07/11/time-for-action-on-abandoned-nets-a-6-point-plan/

Time for Action on Abandoned Nets: A 6-Point Plan July 11, 2014, 11:28 am by Bob Goulais Bob_mar2As a Nipissing First Nation member and an Anishinaabe man, I am saddened and sickened by the plague of rotting, abandoned nets being discovered week-after-week on Lake Nipissing. I truly share the anger that is being portrayed in local coffee shops, in newspaper comment sections and in social media. These reckless and illegal acts are unforgiveable. My heart aches as I feel the pain of our beautiful lake and the fish-life that have given our people sustenance and life for centuries. Instead of sulking and festering, I have decided to put forward my thoughts on a decisive action plan that might contribute to the resolution of this issue. I am pleased to deliver this for consideration to my community. 1. Investigation and Prosecution Illegal fishing, accidentally losing a net, recklessness, carelessness, or not using NFN registered gill net tags – no matter how you phrase it, it’s an offence. It may or may not be a criminal offence, a provincial conservation offence or even an NFN by-law offence – but it IS an offence against natural law and the values and practices of our people. ACTION: I hereby demand that Nipissing First Nation enable our own authorities and call in the assistance of the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources to investigate and prosecute the perpetrators of these immoral offences to the furthest extent of the law. If these are Nipissing First Nation members, other First Nation members, or anyone that may be wrongfully hiding behind the veil of Aboriginal and Treaty Rights, your time is up. 2. Courageous and Decisive Leadership It is time for leadership on this issue. Not only for Nipissing First Nation Chief and Council but for each and every one of us. What can you do to be part of the solution? ACTION: I am personally offering a $1000.00 reward for any information provided to Nipissing First Nation or the Ministry of Natural Resources that leads to the successful prosecution of those who have been fishing illegally and are responsible for the abandoned nets. We need leadership and action now to protect our rights as Anishinaabe people. 3. More Effective Regulation, Enforcement The right to an indigenous commercial fishery is a collective right, not an individual right. Our Aboriginal and Treaty Rights must be protected for the benefit of all Nbisiing citizens, our families and for all Anishinaabe people. We must also do our part, as traditional stewards of our territorial lands and waters, to protect the resource from illegal fishing and overfishing. Nipissing First Nation has the right to regulate this fishery. But so far, NFN regulations have done little to curb illegal fishing and abandoned nets. ACTION: I am calling for stronger laws, regulations, increased enforcement and strong punishments for those harvesting outside of the law. This includes lifetime bans, substantial fines and even imprisonment for those guilty of abandoning a gill net. It’s also time that our First Nation laws be enforced by provincial Conservation Officers and Ontario Courts. Nipissing First Nation must finally find a way to work alongside the Ministry of Natural Resources, to jointly work for the good of the lake and the fish-life. 4. Improved Tools & Training for Commercial Harvesters Our Aboriginal and Treaty Rights can be enhanced by using modern technology to monitor and improve practices in gill netting. Gill nets need to be better marked will buoys equipped with highly visual markers and perhaps even GPS equipment for guaranteed location. Registered commercial harvesters should be trained in interpreting the weather, wind and the current patterns of the lake to aid in safety and predicting the drift of their nets. ACTION: I recommend that Nipissing First Nation develop a pilot project to study possible options to enhance the visibility of markers, the electronic tracking of gill nets and improved training of our commercial harvesters. 5. Taking Steps to Move Away from the Fishery For decades, our people made a moderate living off the Lake. My family, and most other families at one time or another were commercial harvesters. We sold our fish out of our backdoor or even out of the back of our trunk. Today, given the state of the Lake and the health of the fishery, our people need to move away from the fishery as a means of earning a living. Our community should be setting our own quota, providing a finite number of commercial gill-netting licenses, and slowly reducing these over time. Or perhaps increasing these over time, depending on the health of the fishery. But to allow for such bold action, our community needs to find sound alternatives for those harvesters who legitimately depend on the fishery as their source of income. ACTION: I recommend that Nipissing First Nation develop a community employment and training strategy that will lead to more skills and jobs for those solely reliant on the fishery. I further recommend that the Province of Ontario invest in such an initiative with a focus on encouraging training, occupations and professions that give back to the Lake and the fishery, rather than deplete the resource. 6. Treaty Education Last, but not least, it is clear by a lot of the newspaper comments section and social media, that there is a very outspoken and vibrant community of ignorance out there. People who are ignorant of the facts about Aboriginal and Treaty Rights. Most are angry individuals who harbor personal resentments that leads to inaccurate, uninformed, hurtful and harmful statements. Racist statements against First Nations people seem to be the norm, and seem to be acceptable, when news like this is published. Ladies and Gentlemen, kind reader – Aboriginal and Treaty Rights are a reality and they are fact. The case law at all levels, including the Supreme Court of Canada, has repeatedly affirmed and entrenched these rights. Nipissing First Nation has the right to a commercial fishery. Nipissing First Nation members have the right to use gill nets. Nipissing First Nation has a right to regulate our own fishery. These aren’t opinions, they are not unfounded statements, these are facts. The tide needs to turn. Just like the 1960s, many people have had to come to grips with civil rights. For some, it was a tough time. To understand civil rights and appreciate civil rights. So too does the Indigenous rights movement. We can’t be content with just saying “it is what it is”. We need the average Canadian to understand why “it is what it is”. ACTION: All levels of government, including Nipissing First Nation, need to do more to educate non-native people about our rights. I strongly encourage the Government of Canada, the Government of Ontario and even our First Nation to invest in Treaty Education. It is through leadership and decisive action, we can eliminate illegal fishing and rebuild the strength of our fishery through understanding, partnership and mutual respect. Moreover, it should be goal of everyone involved, to that we never see another illegal, abandoned gill net in Lake Nipissing. -

http://www.nugget.ca/2014/07/11/mnr-needs-help-

The Ministry of Natural Resources needs help identifying the owners of gill nets that were left unattended in Lake Nipissing for a significant period of time last month. But that may prove difficult as there is very little information to go on. The MNR said one of the nets had a small black float on each end that could be used to locate the net. Another net had a white foam float and a small red float marking the ends. “None of the nets had any markings to identify ownership,” according to a MNR media release The MNR are currently investigating several abandoned gill nets that were set off in the northeast corner of Great Manitou Island between June 7 to 23. MNR conservation officers with the North Bay Enforcement Unit were able to locate and pull the nets, which contained decomposed fish. According to the MNR, the found nets were still properly set and had been left unattended for an estimated three to seven days or even up to 10 days. The ministry is hoping the public can assist them in providing information of the owners of the nets. Edited July 11, 2014 by Nipfisher

[blarg]

this is not a crime committed by ethnicity nor a community. So i find your views to be quite racist and innapropriate. Your flat out stereotyping and you should know better. Since most drinking and driving offences occur with Caucasian males should i assume your a piece of garbage to society? A piss poor parent and a waste of human that should rot in jail??? To crosshairs. Great info. Obviously i am not privy to how large these commercial fishing outfits are etc. plain ignorance on my part. Here commercial fishing is much different so i was wrong to compare the two. I've seen similar situations here with C&C and it can be pretty horrible. Hope the FNs can find a resolution for the people and the resource. Bye bye

 

Yep, thats right, you got me, the thought that the people we know net the lake might have left these nets in the lake was clearly racist, and not in anyway a logical extension of, idk, reality. More likely are the conspiracy theories espoused by some, anyway, you're clearly the better man what with your paternalism and what not, i acquiesce to your assessment of my character, coming from you I have no doubt that it must be correct, you have me all turned around on the subject.

Edited July 12, 2014 by blarg

[manitoubass2]

 

Yep, thats right, you got me, the thought that the people we know net the lake might have left these nets in the lake was clearly racist, and not in anyway a logical extension of, idk, reality. More likely are the conspiracy theories espoused by some, anyway, you're clearly the better man what with your paternalism and what not, i acquiesce to your assessment of my character, coming from you I have no doubt that it must be correct, you have me all turned around on the subject.

meh, you going fishing today blarg? Beauty day up here in NW ontario:) gonna take the kiddos out fishing and swimming. Hope you and yours have a great day;)