Simcoe Rescue Fines?

[Rich]

Yeah i've never seen people asking the victims of avalanches to pay for rescue services.

[Rustic-Fisher]

We all know there is no such thing as safe ice, ESPECIALLY on that lake when there are open sections.

Municipal /provincial authorities will seldom give a complete thumbs up for activities where public judgement vs risk to public is to high. Liability is just to great.

Should you pay if a rescue is warranted ? I don't think so, you pay taxes and part of those taxes involve emergency services no matter how stupid you are.

BUT if your pulled from that lake a second time, your on the hook for something, and thats what the courts are for. Those rescuers did a great job in such adverse conditions, though you may not notice there was a few extremely dicey moments where the rescuers could of turned into victims as well .

Though paid to preform technical rescues such as what unfolded that day the bottom line is a few fish aren't worth a few funerals as the fee you could end up paying is your life or someone else's .

 

Unbelievably a few of the people rescued thought the emergency services life jackets (400$ a pop) were theirs to keep and slithered of with them.

 

Hopefully we get a good freeze this year,

Stay safe

R

Edited December 29, 2012 by RyanMc

[Rustic-Fisher]

Food for thought...Isn't this more or less like taking a ride in an ambulance? Which you have to pay for!!

 

 

Should ohip stop covering idiots?

 

So when they calculated cost/staff... Weren't those staff being paid their salaries anyways? Do firefighters get paid extra when they do their job?

No Firefighters , police, or paramedics on scene that day were paid extra .

Edited December 29, 2012 by RyanMc

[mike rousseau]

I live in the area and I did hear warnings from fire/ police and the local tv station every single day last winter

the fact that you did not hear/see all the warnings all winter long gives those guys an out..maybe they did not hear the warnings, after all you missed them all winter long

and sure the guys that got rescued twice b are stupid and that was mother nature tiring to remove them from the gene pool..

 

but you are still wrong, there were so many warnings all winter long, it was like a nagging wife...........

and to not loose sight... the point is ...if fishermen have to pay..then all rescues should pay.....damn fishermen are becoming a cash cow for townships theses days and you guys are playing right into they hands..

 

hey anglers park here...answer lets charge for parking for vehicles with trailers...a park with a ramp..lets charge for launching (no one else gets charged for using the park)

guys are fishing the river answer lets make the buy an Essa fishing license to access the river ( anyone else can access use the river free but have a rod and you pay) a guy can bring their kids and dog and the can play in the river throw sticks in the river(so you can fish) and they don't pay but you with the rod pays

 

 

 

yeah guys continue to agree that fishermen have to pay for services that everyone else gets for free

 

but don't complain when more and more fishing things become pay to play...go ahead and support the wrong side

 

or at lest think about it before you talk/type

 

 

and it is surprising that more guys are not stepping up and agreeing with me ..it is not about if the guys were stupid, it's should we pay when no other group does..

people debating this issue will find this thread on google and you guys are stating it is fine to make fishermen pay for everything.....

 

 

Aren't people rescued from an avalanche when there are warnings charged for the rescue....???

 

I agree it doesn't make sense to charge em.... But fisherman (as far as i know) aren't the first and only to be charged rescue fees...

[chris f.]

Four fishermen were rescued from an ice flow just off Massassauga Point last year on Quinte. The fishermen got caught on a huge sheet of ice that broke off from the east side of the narrows. All four fishermen were floated across to shore on banana boats. The expected bill for rescue was $10,000. Now i don't know if thats each or split between the 4 of them, but i think that along with the safety of your life would be enough of a hint to stay off punky ice

Edited December 29, 2012 by Trent River Fishin'

[Terry]

Four fishermen were rescued from an ice flow just off Massassauga Point last year on Quinte. The fishermen got caught on a huge sheet of ice that broke off from the east side of the narrows. All four fishermen were floated across to shore on banana boats. The expected bill for rescue was $10,000. Now i don't know if thats each or split between the 4 of them, but i think that along with the safety of your life would be enough of a hint to stay off punky ice

 

so if you get in a car accident when road conditions are bad, you expect to get a bill for being rescued?

i think that along with the safety of your life would be enough of a hint to stay off bad roads.....

 

I have no problem with paying for rescue as long as every person pays for every situation not just fishermen

you just gave approval for fees for being a fisherman and I think that is wrong

[chris f.]

i guess i should clarify my stance on this lol.. i believe that being rescued from car wrecks are a bit of a stretch from being rescued on frozen water or lack there of... i was actually in an accident christmas morning. an on coming car was crowding the middle of a slushy country road and forced me off the road into a ditch where the car flipped twice, landing on its roof. should i have stayed home because the roads were a bit slushy? where was my rescue.. i had to get my wife and 10 month old child out on my own.. should i get tax $$ back because it took the opp and ems 45 mins to get there because it was chrismas morning? or because 911 didn't tell them that the car was flipped? if you venture out onto thin ice it is YOUR fault if you have to be rescued and i think that should be an individual penalty. thanks for you input though, as it confirms my thought process that some people only care about themselves and what THEY think is best for everyone. i agree that certain services are a right of EVEYBODY, but what about those people that have never in their life been fishing or out on the ice? I love to snowboard, but i would never go on some mountain with an avalanche warning.. never on the ice when there are warnings.. it's a personal judgement call for vet's of the hard water to head out. so i guess in closing i would just like to say be safe in whatever outdoor winter activity you like to take part in

[chris f.]

"I have no problem with paying for rescue as long as every person pays for every situation not just fishermen

you just gave approval for fees for being a fisherman and I think that is wrong"

 

i never said that it should be charge to us by way of taxes or whatever... i said it should be an "individual" penalty

[Rustic-Fisher]

Yep, you'll be billed for an car accident in some municipalities if your a non resident. Your insurance will cover it.

We better put this thread to rest before insurance company's and the province catch wind and make ice fishing insurance policies mandatory LOL!!

[Rustic-Fisher]

i guess i should clarify my stance on this lol.. i believe that being rescued from car wrecks are a bit of a stretch from being rescued on frozen water or lack there of... i was actually in an accident christmas morning. an on coming car was crowding the middle of a slushy country road and forced me off the road into a ditch where the car flipped twice, landing on its roof. should i have stayed home because the roads were a bit slushy? where was my rescue.. i had to get my wife and 10 month old child out on my own.. should i get tax $$ back because it took the opp and ems 45 mins to get there because it was chrismas morning? or because 911 didn't tell them that the car was flipped? if you venture out onto thin ice it is YOUR fault if you have to be rescued and i think that should be an individual penalty. thanks for you input though, as it confirms my thought process that some people only care about themselves and what THEY think is best for everyone. i agree that certain services are a right of EVEYBODY, but what about those people that have never in their life been fishing or out on the ice? I love to snowboard, but i would never go on some mountain with an avalanche warning.. never on the ice when there are warnings.. it's a personal judgement call for vet's of the hard water to head out. so i guess in closing i would just like to say be safe in whatever outdoor winter activity you like to take part in

Yikes , hope everyone was ok.

[chris f.]

Yep, you'll be billed for an car accident in some municipalities if your a non resident. Your insurance will cover it.

We better put this thread to rest before insurance company's and the province catch wind and make ice fishing insurance policies mandatory LOL!!

 

lol.. and i think that would fix this issue.. insurance companies should offer a fisherman policy lol... if you want to go out on the ice and fish, buy an insurance policy for it because if i weren't a fisherman, i would be livid if my tax dollars went to some band of suicidal ice fishermen had to be rescued.. but if it were me i would have no prob. paying the fine, provided no one else had to pay for my stupidity.

[chris f.]

Yikes , hope everyone was ok.

 

yes thank you we were all fine.. graco car seats for the win... and always wear your seat belts people!! trust me, its alot better to be hanging upside down then to go thru the windshield

Edited December 29, 2012 by Trent River Fishin'

[Terry]

i guess i should clarify my stance on this lol.. i believe that being rescued from car wrecks are a bit of a stretch from being rescued on frozen water or lack there of... i was actually in an accident christmas morning. an on coming car was crowding the middle of a slushy country road and forced me off the road into a ditch where the car flipped twice, landing on its roof. should i have stayed home because the roads were a bit slushy? where was my rescue.. i had to get my wife and 10 month old child out on my own.. should i get tax $ back because it took the opp and ems 45 mins to get there because it was chrismas morning? or because 911 didn't tell them that the car was flipped? if you venture out onto thin ice it is YOUR fault if you have to be rescued and i think that should be an individual penalty. thanks for you input though, as it confirms my thought process that some people only care about themselves and what THEY think is best for everyone. i agree that certain services are a right of EVEYBODY, but what about those people that have never in their life been fishing or out on the ice? I love to snowboard, but i would never go on some mountain with an avalanche warning.. never on the ice when there are warnings.. it's a personal judgement call for vet's of the hard water to head out. so i guess in closing i would just like to say be safe in whatever outdoor winter activity you like to take part in

 

so you have the right to go out on dangerous roads and be rescued but not fisherman because you only care about yourself.........and again they do tell people the roads are bad and you ignored it ...the fisherman ignored it too ..by the way more firemen have been killed on the road rescuing people then by rescuing fishermen.............

 

 

but back to my only real argument if a fisherman has to pay then you do too

[chris f.]

so you have the right to go out on dangerous roads and be rescued but not fisherman because you only care about yourself.........and again they do tell people the roads are bad and you ignored it ...the fisherman ignored it too ..by the way more firemen have been killed on the road rescuing people then by rescuing fishermen.............

 

 

but back to my only real argument if a fisherman has to pay then you do too

 

lol... did you even take some time to read my post terry? i was NOT rescued. OPP and EMS didn't show up for 45+ minutes. And who told me that there was slush on the shoulders of the road? no one... i ignored...? what warnings? so i guess i should not go anywhere for christmas because there is 4 inches of slush on the shoulder of the road.. even the OPP reported that it was not a weather related accident. and what about the driver that forced me off the road terry? you saying that he had the right to go out on christmas morning and almost kill 3 people, or did i ignore that too? so what is your point terry? i'm saying if you put yourself in danger (being on thin ice) you suffer the consequence.. and the fines. whats your say on that terry?

 

and for the record.. every driver puts his/her lives at risk every time you leave the driveway... weather is not an excuse for people who shouldn't be driving in the first place.. fisherman/woman or not and we have INSURANCE for that

Edited December 29, 2012 by Trent River Fishin'

[chris f.]

oh and ps.. sorry for taking the thread on a downward spiral, its just a touchy subject with me about the car wreck.. we are all alive and thats all that matters, as is being rescued from the ice, fines or no fines.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Trent River Fishin'

[Terry]

my point was, you expected free service.... why wouldn't fishermen

 

and as for the avalanche warning.....if you when to see about the avalanche and saw there was no chance of an avalanche and a 1000 people were skiing would you ski

and if every day they still warned about an avalanche, would you start ti ignore the sill people crying wolf.....

 

and as in the fable....crying wolf bit someone in the butt

[soobnoob]

Sounds like an opportunity to start an air boat rescue/taxi service... Who wants in

[chris f.]

Food for thought...Isn't this more or less like taking a ride in an ambulance? Which you have to pay for!!

 

 

Should ohip stop covering idiots?

 

So when they calculated cost/staff... Weren't those staff being paid their salaries anyways? Do firefighters get paid extra when they do their job?

 

exactly

[chris f.]

Sounds like an opportunity to start an air boat rescue/taxi service... Who wants in

 

i do.. my boat launch is right on the trent river..

[chris f.]

my point was, you expected free service.... why wouldn't fishermen

 

and as for the avalanche warning.....if you when to see about the avalanche and saw there was no chance of an avalanche and a 1000 people were skiing would you ski

and if every day they still warned about an avalanche, would you start ti ignore the sill people crying wolf.....

 

and as in the fable....crying wolf bit someone in the butt

 

i expected to be dead along with my family terry.. if we HAD been injured and needed to use the service of an ambulance, i would, and have gladly paid for it in the past. this is exactly my point. you are missing the fact that accident's are one thing all together as far as the service's we require. no one gets in the car in the morning and thinks.. " ok, im gonna get cut off again on my way to work today, but this time im gonna flip my car 5 times and end up squished, not able to get out." do you get billed for that? or me.. i think if there is a bill it comes to me. the same goes for if i get up in the morning and say " im goin' ice fishing " and the ice pack breaks up and i float away. they come to save me.. i gladly pay the price to be alive. i never said that I expected anything for free. the point is that daily, we do dangerous things out of necessity ( drive, work ect ) and things for pleasure ( ie. fishing, snowboarding ect ) if you do things that are dangerous and require others to put their lives at risk to save you, you are the sole person at fault.. not me or anyone else.

 

that being said, yes i agree that everyone should be paying the same for the SAME services. if i get lost on a mountain, and terry got stuck out fishing we both should pay the appropriate fees associated to the rescue .. thats been my point from the beginning of this wonderful and jolly thread lol

 

Merry HoHoHo and Happy New Year... Bay of Quinte for the win

Edited December 29, 2012 by Trent River Fishin'

[Oggie]

So if you're in a car accident and you are convicted of an offense then you're at faulty. Do you get the bill for the rescue service that were needed to assit you? Don't think so!

 

I would much rather see the courts determine who is at fault. They should have charged the ice fishermen that required rescue and then upon conviction have them pay for some of the rescue costs. Terry is right this is the Local Council's vendetta against ice fishermen! They really don't want ice fishing or any of the hassles that result )eg. parking).

Dan O.

[lew]

Before retiring 13 years ago, I spent 32 years as a fireman in Toronto and a BIG part of the job is helping people who got themselves into serious trouble through misfortune, carelessness, accident or just plain stupidness.

 

We'd assess the situation, figure out the best way to fix it and then do it.

 

Never once in all my years on the job did I ever hear any other fireman, copper or paramedic say that a person should be fined for getting himself into trouble.....it's our job to go out and help them, that's why we're there and it's what we're payed to do.

 

Emergency workers are on the job 24/7 and their job is to help people when the call comes in, not to judge them. Doesn't matter if they get trapped in a burning house, injured in a car crash or get stuck on an ice flow in Lake Simcoe.

 

If an emergency worker sits in the station all day and doesn't respond to any calls, he gets paid exactly the same amount of money as if he'd responded to a dozen calls.

 

It always makes me wonder where they come up with figures like posted in this story, where it cost Oro-Medonty (SP) $4300 to rescue those guys when the only extra expense I can see is the extra fuel for the trucks while they sit idleing on the shore.

 

Personally, I think it's disgusting that these guys were fined because they got themselves into trouble and had to be rescued.

 

But that's just the opinion of someone who was payed to help folks.

 

And for what it's worth, I agree with EVERYTHING that Terry said.

[chris f.]

Before retiring 13 years ago, I spent 32 years as a fireman in Toronto and a BIG part of the job is helping people who got themselves into serious trouble through misfortune, carelessness, accident or just plain stupidness.

 

We'd assess the situation, figure out the best way to fix it and then do it.

 

Never once in all my years on the job did I ever hear any other fireman, copper or paramedic say that a person should be fined for getting himself into trouble.....it's our job to go out and help them, that's why we're there and it's what we're payed to do.

 

Emergency workers are on the job 24/7 and their job is to help people when the call comes in, not to judge them. Doesn't matter if they get trapped in a burning house, injured in a car crash or get stuck on an ice flow in Lake Simcoe.

 

If an emergency worker sits in the station all day and doesn't respond to any calls, he gets paid exactly the same amount of money as if he'd responded to a dozen calls.

 

It always makes me wonder where they come up with figures like posted in this story, where it cost Oro-Medonty (SP) $4300 to rescue those guys when the only extra expense I can see is the extra fuel for the trucks while they sit idleing on the shore.

 

Personally, I think it's disgusting that these guys were fined because they got themselves into trouble and had to be rescued.

 

But that's just the opinion of someone who was payed to help folks.

 

And for what it's worth, I agree with EVERYTHING that Terry said.

 

im glad to see that you agree with everything terry said. those figures can be found on a number of local news sites, and i was arguing the same point til i was told it was my fault for going out in my car when there was slush on the roads. im also glad to know its my fault some other driver thought he had rights to the whole road. oh, and how its my fault that they just kept on driving even though they just caused a car to roll into the ditch with a 10 month old child in it. so because i apparently ignored some warning from no one that a car was going to run me off the i should have to pay for a rescue that never came..? thats what terry's telling me so if you want to agree with him fine, but at least read the rest of the posts so you have your facts straight. all i did was comment on the bay of quinte rescue last year and terry felt obligated to tell me that i did something wrong by driving and that i expect free rescue when something goes bad. not the case and i have said that in my previous posts. as for the MAIN issue in question here ( again ).. i agree that people have a right to assistance when in danger, but if that danger is self inflicted then you pay the price... tell me that a fire crew or ems team has ever made a family pay for rescue from a single car roll over... please.. and thats my opinion

Edited December 29, 2012 by Trent River Fishin'

[Terry]

I am sorry but your sad story had nothing or little to do with was being discussed IMO

the details did nothing so I ignored that and hit what I thought was part of the discussion ....I tend to glaze over on unnecessary facts ...

[lew]

if you want to agree with him fine, but at least read the rest of the posts so you have your facts straight.

 

1st, I have no idea who you are.

 

2nd, you never entered my mind when I made my post...see 1st above.

 

3rd, my facts are very straight.