jedimaster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 I always thought that science was about find and presenting fact in a non biased manour. And not about swaying peoples opinion based on that scientists pollitical viewpoint? Doc, and I mean this in the friendliest way I can. Think about the tone an manour you bring these articles here. As soon as you start bashing one side or the other the other side isn't going to listen and you may in the process lose some fence sitters. Try and be a little non biased and maybe just maybe you may do some good rather than just further divide people. The libs done there fair share of negative environmental impact. Few sane people go looking for a fight, but when you stick a hot poker in someones eye what do you think will happen. I mean why not just post a thread about the actual study, and how you feel about those facts, and what your understanding is on the findings. I would actually take that to heart. As soon as someone mixes science and pollitics I tune out and get ready for war.
Old Man Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 I always thought that science was about find and presenting fact in a non biased manour. And not about swaying peoples opinion based on that scientists pollitical viewpoint? Doc, and I mean this in the friendliest way I can. Think about the tone an manour you bring these articles here. As soon as you start bashing one side or the other the other side isn't going to listen and you may in the process lose some fence sitters. Try and be a little non biased and maybe just maybe you may do some good rather than just further divide people. The libs done there fair share of negative environmental impact. Few sane people go looking for a fight, but when you stick a hot poker in someones eye what do you think will happen. I mean why not just post a thread about the actual study, and how you feel about those facts, and what your understanding is on the findings. I would actually take that to heart. As soon as someone mixes science and pollitics I tune out and get ready for war. :good:
Gregoire Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 :good: If this is how you feel than maybe express your opinion instead of attacking someone because they holds a different political viewpoint than you do. Grimace makes two valid points: 1. People who seek to invalidate science probably have something to hide 2. Politicizing debates serve to distance people. Both yourself and the Doc have proven guilty of the second point, however at least Dr. Sal tried to move beyond his political beliefs and add to the topic. You have not.
hammercarp Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 Its fairly standard practise for public servants to not disclose information to the public. I did the same thing when working for several government agencies, even ones while the liberals were in charge. Its nothing new. I am not against science, I am not even against the liberals. However it took a majority govt to erase the retardedness known as the gun registry that the liberals shoved down everyones throat. So now because of that stupididity we need to put up with the PC's for a few more years. Then we can go back to a fence sitting minority where nothing gets done, and everyone can be happy again. I like the way you think.
Rod Caster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 Not good. We'll all be saying the american oath very soon if this crap keeps happening. If anyone actually thinks the CBC is biased, then you have just given away your own bias.
Gregoire Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 I think one of the reasons that Dr. Sal brought politics into this debate is because of the fact that the Conservative government seems to stopping a public official from talking openly about the environmental effect of farming salmon. The conservative government, along with certain other right wing politicians in Canada seem to prefer to silence critics when they can, or attack their credibility when they cannot silence them. (A tactic that Torontonians may recognize) Dr Sal mentioned his oath to add information. If you read the article you could infer with the information from this thread the the scientist in question would be putting her career in jeopardy if she were to talk out about the issue.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) jedi i did not politicize this debate. the article is here to keep my fellow anglers informed of relevant fishing related news. were this the liberals or ndp in power, i would be posting the same article. But it's not. This debate was politicized the moment you accused the article of being 'liberal bias'. so don't accuse me of doing something that you yourself propagated. we should share these concerns as anglers, not as partisan hacks. Edited March 28, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus
jedimaster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 Not good. We'll all be saying the american oath very soon if this crap keeps happening. If anyone actually thinks the CBC is biased, then you have just given away your own bias. Funny how you mention this but I presume you're a liberal since you seem to be against the rights, Wasn't it the liberal Leader in the last election that was an american defector? Stick up for Canada be a liberal you say? Hmm, it was the american liberal leader that was one of the big reasons why I voted for the conservatives for the first time in a federal election.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Funny how you mention this but I presume you're a liberal since you seem to be against the rights, Wasn't it the liberal Leader in the last election that was an american defector? Stick up for Canada be a liberal you say? Hmm, it was the american liberal leader that was one of the big reasons why I voted for the conservatives for the first time in a federal election. this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is the possible muzzling of federal scientists. why are you now insulting another poster for sharing my concerns? Edited March 28, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus
Joeytier Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 Funny how you mention this but I presume you're a liberal since you seem to be against the rights, Wasn't it the liberal Leader in the last election that was an american defector? Stick up for Canada be a liberal you say? Hmm, it was the american liberal leader that was one of the big reasons why I voted for the conservatives for the first time in a federal election. We don't live in a country with a two-party system...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 We don't live in a country with a two-party system... amen joey. ORANGE WAVE!!!!
jedimaster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 As for the cbc not being biased, don't forget that the CBC admited this themselves when they were forced to do an investigation on themselves for being liberal biased. None the less. I guess I wrongly presummed you were thinking about the science behind the article and te information behind that versus the actual debate about the pollitics. So just to be clear, none of this thread was about the actual Information in the report in question (That again is freely available online)... it was all about the pollical aspect.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 this thread is about muzzling of federal scientists as stated in the subject. the few of you that come here to cause trouble will not find any here and i'm not going to allow childish insults thrown at myself and other posters to derail a very important topic. here is a year old article on the subject where 500 leading scientists contacted the government about their stifling of federal scientists. http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2011/04/26/science-federal-cswa-letter.html
jedimaster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 We don't live in a country with a two-party system... Ahh yes, I forgot about the valiant Orange. Or I gues you could be bloq as well. My sincere appologies.
Snidley Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 I strongly suggest that guys here read Alex Morton's blog from start to finish. This issue includes strong arm methods, literally, to silence a government scientist, misuse of Canadian courts to silence and deport a critic, deliberate lies to long time trading partners to benefit of a non Canadian corporation with a long history of corruption and dirty dealing, and the outcome has the potential to ruin one of the worlds largest and best sources of natural protein. The whole thing trumps an oath to a disingenuous partner, a partner that had no intention of honorable dealing from the get go. It has been going on for a long time and the Liberals are involved as well. In truth I'm personally a little right of Attilla the Hun but this scandal transcends political parties. It is simply crime for money which maybe makes it, in fact, politics at it's very heart.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Ahh yes, I forgot about the valiant Orange. Or I gues you could be bloq as well. My sincere appologies. people who vote for the ndp are separatists? that's new. you're only embarrassing yourself now. Edited March 28, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 here's a non-cbc article on the subject. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120302/journal-nature-tells-canada-to-stop-muzzling-scientists-120302/
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 and here is a Sun Media article on the subject. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/02/science-journal-to-feds-stop-muzzling-scientists
solopaddler Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 i feel it is the publics right to know what public servants are doing with their tax dollars, don't you? And I'd like to know what really happened in Area 51, but it's not going to happen. thanks for that new resource snidley...thankfully harper can't gag order everybody. http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/ Snidely is a font of useful information. what a stupid post. yes, i recited the oath. did i mean it? no. am i going to throw away my career based on an oath i don't mean? no. thanks for adding NOTHING to the discussion though You seem angrier than usual tonight. jedi i did not politicize this debate. No of course you didn't.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) hmmmm... another personal attack in lieu of anything intelligent to add. but alas, i won't bite tonight solo. you'll have to go start trouble elsewhere as i feel this is an important subject. Edited March 28, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus
Joeytier Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 Ahh yes, I forgot about the valiant Orange. Or I gues you could be bloq as well. My sincere appologies. What does my affiliation or support for any party have to do with this? I wave no flag for any party, as I'm not so jaded as to think any suit dummy on parliament has any concern for my best interests. And if you think ANY majority government would like their citizens fully involved in key environmental decisions, then you think too highly of those in power.
jedimaster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 I don't at all blame the Conservatives for this. The Scientists knew what they were getting into. Lets think back about what happened when the liberals had there last majority, Weasling around with Kyoto, The liberals were bought out by the oil companies... quoted from a Globe and mail article... Even Liberal members of Parliament are starting to express concern over the government's lack of environmental commitment on global warming and on achieving its goal under Kyoto to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 6 per cent from 1990 levels by 2012. The thing is EVERY party while in power has no choice but to bend and shape its policies so that the big companies can be profitable. Thats just the way it goes. We don't live in a perfect world and sorry to say it never will be. In fact if I recall off hand it was the Oil Companies that were backing the liberals in those days to get Kyoto waxed. I remember being so angry at the liberals, and every environmentalist was so pissed abou this, everyone was screaming and shouting at the Libs for this. To think things would be any different if the NDP or Libs were in charge is just juvinile. These pollitical arguments are just silly. Talk about the science. Please do. Argue about this party is bad or that party is bad and you will just end up painting yourself as a right wing whacko or left wing whacko. There are right wing whackos and Left wing whackos.
jedimaster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 And if you think ANY majority government would like their citizens fully involved in key environmental decisions, then you think too highly of those in power. I think if you read through any of my posts you would see that I would agree with you on this point. These guys win, things sway this way, those guys win it sways a bit back the other way. Thats the only way there is useful progresion. IN the pollitical system we have its only under a majority that anythign actually gets done. Good or bad things get done. Over time things balance out one way or another. To think that things are bad because Party X is in power, is as crazy as thinking if Party Y was in power everything would be perfect.
solopaddler Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 hmmmm... another personal attack in lieu of anything intelligent to add. but alas, i won't bite tonight solo. you'll have to go start trouble elsewhere as i feel this is an important subject. Yep that's me, constantly attacking people with absolutely nothing of value to add to any conversation. I think the non fishing posts on OFC are great, they're part of what makes this such a great place to hang out. In my useless opinion politics is a subject that doesn't belong here. But I digress, you've got a lively debate going here, mostly with yourself. Carry on...
jedimaster Posted March 28, 2012 Report Posted March 28, 2012 Precisely what they want! An open, science-based community of critical thinkers in this country might just be detrimental to Stephen and his bunch of backward-thinking criminals. An ugly picture is starting to unfold... No offense but you brought your pollitical viewpoint into this thread not me.
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