Nipissing Walleye???

[crosshairs]

So any fish species is fair game no matter the impact the fish caught,sold or not, have on the fish population and overall balance of the lake. You like to be portrayed as keepers of the lake but you can't have it both ways, you simply don't know, nor does your biologist know, what the long term impact of commercial fishing on the lake will be. No doubt the cod fisherman cared about their fishery too, but that didn't stop their greed from killing it. I genuinely hope that doesn't happen here, but if it does im sure those of us who can't set gill nets will get blamed first. I love the, 'they are eating more smelt' argument for why anglers are finding them harder to catch, but that argument never gets extended to why? And is the commercial netting of the lake changing the balance so that maybe more smelt are available to fewer walleye. Who knows, it's complicated, but that is the point really, being native gill nets does not make them more environmentally sensible, the best of intentions aside. But, this is a dead horse, we have rules to follow and you get to make your own rules, i just hope you know what you're doing.

What we do know is we've been gill netting lake nipissing commercially for centuries (documented by the jesuits). More recently there are actually less people netting, more regulations on them and a quota set in place. For the fishery to change so dramatically in the last 10-20 years what has happened differently to negatively impact the fishery?

 

The commercial fishery has changed, but for the better. Are more anglers on nipissing? We don't know there is no accurate data on how many anglers or how much fish is being caught by them. Is there more Tourist outfitters on the lake? I don't know, but everything was fine until around 2003-2004 and the commercial fishery prior to 2003 was bigger then it is now and had been for centuries. Something new happened but what was it? More Anglers, a New native community netting on nipissing (treaty area is quite large), environmental changes.

 

Not sure, but Nipissing First Nation is the ones finding and leading the research into other avenues while the OMNR sits back and reviews their work. A Pretty bleak picture is being painted by the "Managers of the Lake", this is why the First Nation is now taking their stance.

[Headhunter]

Crosshairs, you seem to have your finger on the pulse of this issue, so please bare with me on this...

Hypothetically, lets say, only for discussion's sake, an individual with status is caught by NFN, netting outside of the "rules" suggested by NFN. What are the ramifications, those individuals can expect to face, as a result of their actions?

Thanks,

HH

[crosshairs]

Crosshairs, you seem to have your finger on the pulse of this issue, so please bare with me on this...

Hypothetically, lets say, only for discussion's sake, an individual with status is caught by NFN, netting outside of the "rules" suggested by NFN. What are the ramifications, those individuals can expect to face, as a result of their actions?

Thanks,

HH

 

Nipissing First Nations Regulations only apply to Nipissing First nation members. Nipissing has proven in court that they have always commercially fished nipissing. If other status fisherman are seen they are reported to the omnr, and then it is upto the ministry to find out if they are fishing for sustenance or commercially.

 

If an NFN member is found netting outside the rules depending on the severity of the offence it may range from a warning down to a meeting with the justice circle. (the justice circle is made up of elders, compliant commercial fisherman, Anishnabek Police sevices, general concerned community members.) Here the person admits their guilt, explains to their peers why they chose to do what they did, and are assigned a penalty. Penalties range from community service, donations of fish to elders and the food bank, attending educational sessions on various topics, writing letters of appology to the community, suspension of fishing permit, and the use of the communities fedarally ispected fish processing facility will be off limits for a set time frame.

 

Remember this is a very small community, and the embarassment faced by the guilty party and their families to the community is quite a strong tool. Recently I have heard that Chief and Council are also looking into having set fines for each possible offence.

 

We have to remember, that until the communities law is challenged in court the courts won't recognize these laws. Hence the justice circles.

[Headhunter]

Nipissing First Nations Regulations only apply to Nipissing First nation members. Nipissing has proven in court that they have always commercially fished nipissing. If other status fisherman are seen they are reported to the omnr, and then it is upto the ministry to find out if they are fishing for sustenance or commercially.

 

If an NFN member is found netting outside the rules depending on the severity of the offence it may range from a warning down to a meeting with the justice circle. (the justice circle is made up of elders, compliant commercial fisherman, Anishnabek Police sevices, general concerned community members.) Here the person admits their guilt, explains to their peers why they chose to do what they did, and are assigned a penalty. Penalties range from community service, donations of fish to elders and the food bank, attending educational sessions on various topics, writing letters of appology to the community, suspension of fishing permit, and the use of the communities fedarally ispected fish processing facility will be off limits for a set time frame.

 

Remember this is a very small community, and the embarassment faced by the guilty party and their families to the community is quite a strong tool. Recently I have heard that Chief and Council are also looking into having set fines for each possible offence.

 

We have to remember, that until the communities law is challenged in court the courts won't recognize these laws. Hence the justice circles.

Thanks for that explanation Crosshairs... so there are no monetary repercussions? It seems to me that such actions (Netting outside of jurisdiction) could potentially have an ill effect on all stake holders... including the NFN... why not consider confiscation of their tools, to help keep them in line?

HH

[crosshairs]

Thanks for that explanation Crosshairs... so there are no monetary repercussions? It seems to me that such actions (Netting outside of jurisdiction) could potentially have an ill effect on all stake holders... including the NFN... why not consider confiscation of their tools, to help keep them in line?

HH

You are correct, that has been there most effective tool. Nets being confiscated seems to really catch all commercial fishermans attention.

[Mike01]

I give up....there is no point in arguing facts and opinions on here, it only frustrates me further. I just don't want to see the lake that I grew up on and have so many fond memories of being decimated to a point were my boys don't get to have the same experiences that I did. I do my part to help the lake, I clean up garbage and debris on the ice after the huts are off. I make sure my boat is maintained properly so it's not leaking fluids. I release most of my fish except for the occasional family meal, and never keep fish in the slot size. I just hope that everybody cares as much as I do and does their part to keep Lake Nipissing a productive fishery for years to come.

 

Mike

[Headhunter]

I give up....there is no point in arguing facts and opinions on here, it only frustrates me further. I just don't want to see the lake that I grew up on and have so many fond memories of being decimated to a point were my boys don't get to have the same experiences that I did. I do my part to help the lake, I clean up garbage and debris on the ice after the huts are off. I make sure my boat is maintained properly so it's not leaking fluids. I release most of my fish except for the occasional family meal, and never keep fish in the slot size. I just hope that everybody cares as much as I do and does their part to keep Lake Nipissing a productive fishery for years to come.

 

Mike

Mike, I believe that most if not all of us have the same feelings as you. I know I do.

That being said, we have here a person in the know, Crosshairs, who has been good enough to pass along the NFN position and has done so in an articulate and respectful way... I appreciate that and would like to have this discussion continue here, in the same manner. It's obvious to me anyway, that what's happening on Nip isn't going to change. There is no will on any side of this issue, to make/force a change, that won't end up getting really ugly for all sides of the "net", so to speak.

 

Crosshairs, you mentioned earlier that NFN "puts back"... can you please describe what it is that NFN puts back into the fishery?

Thanks,

HH

[crosshairs]

"puts back" was just refering to the money they put into enforcement and assessment. They are doing alot of work with the Lake Sturgeon, musky and Bass. I know in the past they were doing alot of ice out trap netting and gathering data on the musky, bass and Northern pike. We all know not enough money is put into lake nipissing, I think the OMNR needs to start looking outside the box.

 

The First Nation has fisheries officers out on the water 4-5 days a week, why not use them to help with angler enforcement and works the other way as well. Here is 2 organizations trying to do the best they can for the lake with limited funds, it's time to put the past behind them and work together.(alot of history between the 2)

 

Everyone has the same goal in mind for the lake, healthy productive lake for all future generations to enjoy.

Just a side bit of information, if the lake nipissing fishery crashes so does the treaty rights of all NFN community members(commercial and angler). So the community has alot at stake, they are determined to get this done right.

 

Not all set nets, actually a small minority actually set nets. Most are anglers like the rest of us, just want to bring their kids out and maybe catch a little snack. Whether fish are caught or not I feel it is time well spent.

 

Teaching all our youth is the key to the lakes future. All biases must be put aside and both sides must be willing to give.

Have a great night folks.

[Rod Caster]

Thanks for the great questions HH and great answers Crosshair. This thread has been a fine read.

 

The MNR doesn't have the funds to keep Nipissing healthy so we can't just rely on them. Us locals need to take the energy we put into blaming others and redirect it towards protecting the fishery.

 

As Mike01 said, I also try to do my part in respecting the lake by putting most of the fish back (i also keeps snacks), but I should probably do more since I use the lake so often.

 

Are there any other NGO groups that work towards keeping lake Nipissing healthy?

 

For the record, I've done pretty good on Nipissing this year.

[Bernie]

Depends where you are fishing RC.

 

To the best of my knowledge Callander Bay/ Deepwater and the North Bay water front isn't being netted...yet.

Callander Bay has many shacks and anglers fish it rather heavy. But there are still fish there. Same as the North Bay waterfront area.

I fish the South Bay and occasionally the French River. Both are areas that the nets have been used extensively.

I guess I'll have to head over that way if I want to catch a Pickerel in the future.

[Nipfisher]

Depends where you are fishing RC.

 

To the best of my knowledge Callander Bay/ Deepwater and the North Bay water front isn't being netted...yet.

Callander Bay has many shacks and anglers fish it rather heavy. But there are still fish there. Same as the North Bay waterfront area.

I fish the South Bay and occasionally the French River. Both are areas that the nets have been used extensively.

I guess I'll have to head over that way if I want to catch a Pickerel in the future.

 

Room for you in my shack any time you want Bernie. Same goes for you Clayton. No biasses here. I don't like the odd 40-50 inch muskie that accidentally dies in the nets but that is my only issue.

[Bernie]

Thank you for the offer Nipfisher.

 

I rarely fish in the winter although I am out at the lake almost every winter weekend puttering around the cottage or reading a book by the fire.

The summertime on the other hand I do enjoy heading out on the water and throw out the anchor to enjoy an evening of fishing.

Use to be I could go to one spot, catch a couple and have a snack for supper.

Now I need to go from one spot to another just to find one.

My brother fishes out on the other side of Lonely Island and does OK but even there it's not the way it was only a few years ago.

[bucktail]

Man they need to close that fishery for 4 years to EVERYONE!

When i was younger it was the place to go, now a echo of what it used to be. With no hope for the future unless everyone comes to the table

[Headhunter]

"puts back" was just refering to the money they put into enforcement and assessment. They are doing alot of work with the Lake Sturgeon, musky and Bass. I know in the past they were doing alot of ice out trap netting and gathering data on the musky, bass and Northern pike. We all know not enough money is put into lake nipissing, I think the OMNR needs to start looking outside the box.

 

The First Nation has fisheries officers out on the water 4-5 days a week, why not use them to help with angler enforcement and works the other way as well. Here is 2 organizations trying to do the best they can for the lake with limited funds, it's time to put the past behind them and work together.(alot of history between the 2)

 

Everyone has the same goal in mind for the lake, healthy productive lake for all future generations to enjoy.

Just a side bit of information, if the lake nipissing fishery crashes so does the treaty rights of all NFN community members(commercial and angler). So the community has alot at stake, they are determined to get this done right.

 

Not all set nets, actually a small minority actually set nets. Most are anglers like the rest of us, just want to bring their kids out and maybe catch a little snack. Whether fish are caught or not I feel it is time well spent.

 

Teaching all our youth is the key to the lakes future. All biases must be put aside and both sides must be willing to give.

Have a great night folks.

Thanks for your response Crosshairs... I typically don't get on here in the evening, so I am only now, seeing your response...

SO, if I have read the above correctly, what you are saying is that NFN is "putting back" by enforcing rules that they themselves have agreed upon as well as spreading the wealth accumulated within the community.

With regard to the MNR's approach to Nip... what would you suggest they do that would be in the best interest of all of the lakes stakeholders?

It seems to me anyway, that any stocking effort they could put forth, would only result in those fish, being netted for NFN commercial use... with the other stake holders, ie local non Natives and the average "tourist" not necessarily benefiting. Remember, Nip is a shared resource for all citizens to enjoy.

Places like this fine fishing board draw an awful lot of traffic, both registered as well as guests... and as more and more people view Nip as a less than desirable location, due to overwhelming fishing pressure, Nip will not their destination of choice. That could result in business that support the tourist trade, failing. And should those businesses fail, it will directly affect the tax base that supports the infrastructure of the area. This leads me to my next question... what relationship does NFN have with the other stakeholders on the lake? Have there been any dicussions about striking a balance between the various stakeholders?

I find this topic fascinating and look forward to continued dialogue.

HH

[Muskieman]

The mouth of the French near Brown Is and Burt Is , Fishermans, Blueberry has been HOT for the past 2 weeks... My Father in Law has been going out everyday and catching 10+ walleye everytime and most are running at 20"... I missed my chance after work yesterday.. my bud went out and caught 11 Walleye and 9 of them being over 28"

the biggest being 31.5" @ 12.5lbs....

 

Here's his 30.5" 11lb or so.

 

Randy

[BUSTER]

Places like this fine fishing board draw an awful lot of traffic, both registered as well as guests... and as more and more people view Nip as a less than desirable location, due to overwhelming fishing pressure, Nip will not their destination of choice.........

 

So as word of mouth travels over the years that nip fishing isn't that good ,less people would be heading to Nip resulting in less pressure on the lake ,With a final result that the fishing would then increase? Maybe you guys should keep telling everyone the fishing sucks so less and less head out on Nip. In 20 yrs it'll be a gold mine.

[Roy]

The mouth of the French near Brown Is and Burt Is , Fishermans, Blueberry has been HOT for the past 2 weeks... My Father in Law has been going out everyday and catching 10+ walleye everytime and most are running at 20"... I missed my chance after work yesterday.. my bud went out and caught 11 Walleye and 9 of them being over 28"

the biggest being 31.5" @ 12.5lbs....

 

Here's his 30.5" 11lb or so.

 

Randy

 

The smile says it all.

[Headhunter]

Places like this fine fishing board draw an awful lot of traffic, both registered as well as guests... and as more and more people view Nip as a less than desirable location, due to overwhelming fishing pressure, Nip will not their destination of choice.........

 

So as word of mouth travels over the years that nip fishing isn't that good ,less people would be heading to Nip resulting in less pressure on the lake ,With a final result that the fishing would then increase? Maybe you guys should keep telling everyone the fishing sucks so less and less head out on Nip. In 20 yrs it'll be a gold mine.

 

So the economic wasteland, left by a lack of tourists and the resulting devistation it will have on the tax base of the area has no bearing on your thoughts?

20 years is a long time to wait, for your revenue stream to return... seems kinda selfish to me!

This is why I asked Crosshairs to discuss how the NFN is working with the other stakeholders on the lake.

HH

Edited March 9, 2011 by Headhunter

[Nipfisher]

So the economic wasteland, left by a lack of tourists and the resulting devistation it will have on the tax base of the area has no bearing on your thoughts?

20 years is a long time to wait, for your revenue stream to return... seems kinda selfish to me!

This is why I asked Crosshairs to discuss how the NFN is working with the other stakeholders on the lake.

HH

 

H.H. I live here and pretty much only fish Nipissing although there are many other "more productive" lakes in the area. I would love to see less pressure on Nip. I'm with Buster..there are no walleye left in this lake. Randy must have photo-shopped that picture...lol.

[canadadude]

The mouth of the French near Brown Is and Burt Is , Fishermans, Blueberry has been HOT for the past 2 weeks... My Father in Law has been going out everyday and catching 10+ walleye everytime and most are running at 20"... I missed my chance after work yesterday.. my bud went out and caught 11 Walleye and 9 of them being over 28"

the biggest being 31.5" @ 12.5lbs....

 

Here's his 30.5" 11lb or so.

 

Randy

nice my favorite area come March,there doing well considering the Southern Ontario weekend warriors have declared Walleye extinct on Nipissing hahahahaha.

 

The fact is the Lake may have gone through a period of decline but this is normal,it's happened many times before on Nipissing. The lake has also gone through periods of way above average stocks,some people think the bonanza years are normal.Maybe there is some area of concern but I think Nipissing will bounce back.

[canadadude]

So the economic wasteland, left by a lack of tourists and the resulting devistation it will have on the tax base of the area has no bearing on your thoughts?

20 years is a long time to wait, for your revenue stream to return... seems kinda selfish to me!

This is why I asked Crosshairs to discuss how the NFN is working with the other stakeholders on the lake.

HH

Perhaps the other stakeholders on the lake hire a Biologist, do some assement,promote catch and release, follow the slot rules. There only argument is completly stop the Native Fishery or screw the slot the fish are all going to be netted anyway. I don't see this atitude in anyway helping, at least the NFN is on the right track by managing it's take from the lake and doing everything possible to keep the fishery sustainable.If the tourist operators rely so much on the fishery perhaps it's time they also took a stand on managing the resource.

[Headhunter]

nice my favorite area come March,there doing well considering the Southern Ontario weekend warriors have declared Walleye extinct on Nipissing hahahahaha.

 

The fact is the Lake may have gone through a period of decline but this is normal,it's happened many times before on Nipissing. The lake has also gone through periods of way above average stocks,some people think the bonanza years are normal.Maybe there is some area of concern but I think Nipissing will bounce back.

Well, I'm glad you "think" it will bounce back, but if I were a stake holder I wouldn't find much solice in your hope alone.

And making comments about "southern Ontarians" is in no way constructive to this discussion. Without those "weekend warriors", the the economics of the region would suffer greatly... but that doesn't seem to be an issue to you... as you seem to have all the fish YOU can use.

Based on Crosshair's responses, the ecomomic benefit of NFN is only being shared by NFN, unless I am reading this wrong, which I will admitt, is entirely possible.

Again, I am trying to understand this situation and consider us to be fortunate to have people like Crosshairs, in the know and conversing.

I guess that if it makes you feel better to bash, then discuss, I can't stop you from doing that.

HH

[canadadude]

The restaurants and fish markets in NorthBay and area who purchase the NFN catch are not benefiting economically, I don't think they give the fish away for free.Tourists who don't fish can now enjoy a meal of Nipissing Walleye and I'm sure the restaurants and fish markets also enjoy a econmic benefit from being able to provide others with fresh local fish

[Headhunter]

Ok Canadadude, I can see that having limited benefit to a small cross section of the Nip region... that being said however, (and of course, I don't have access to the numbers) I wonder how much money those restaurants provide to the region as a whole, in comparison to the large number of resorts and the numbers of secondary support services in the area.

*****I just want to make one thing clear here, I am not trying to do anything here, except understand the lay of the land in the area. I have in the past, expressed my personal thoughts on what's happening, but have come to the conclusion that I did not possess the knowledge to make any kind of an informed personal fact based decision. Like most here, I am a "stakeholder" based on my license dollars as well as my tax dollars and recreation dollars.

I really do appreciate those who have been constructive in the dicussion, their insight and knowledge and their willingness to share it... I do hope that this discussion stays this way... after all this is a dicussion board and I think we all have some interest in the information being presented.

HH

[Bernie]

Headhunter, thank you for your level discussion procedure.

This is the proper way to do it.

 

Yes, there are places that do harbor fish yet.

But most certainly not the way it should be.

In my lifetime and my fathers as well the fishing has never been this poor.

 

Perhaps at the turn of the century from the 1800's. At that time many species were harvested to the point of extinction. And from what I understand it wasn't the natives at that time.

 

I believe at that time the blue pickerel was wiped out completely. Not entirely sure of the details.