Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 Maybe there never was anything we could do about cormorants because... well... who would ever eat one?! If only we could create a market for them and the sea lamprey in China.
manitoubass2 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 If only we could create a market for them and the sea lamprey in China. Just show their government how to profit from it, and I'm sure they will be all over it. Or maybe convince Japan?
jedimaster Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 The comorant liver when brewed with hot water and lamprey tails will make you as strong as you would if you ate bear galstone
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 The comorant liver when brewed with hot water and lamprey tails will make you as strong as you would if you ate bear galstone just ignore the uni-brow and third nipple you grow.
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 any whiskey drinkers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vedgTokXj04&feature=player_embedded
manitoubass2 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 This is similar to what I saw, except they flew higher and there was probably 100 times this amount of birds, and it went on for a few hours
mercman Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 just ignore the uni-brow and third nipple you grow. THERE YA GO AGAIN !!!!Yer killin me over here.
Gregoire Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 I guess my point is that instead of saying the cormorants are the problem and killing them all we should try to look at what role we play. Before a bunch of you go off on a tangent about government studies and waste: that is not what I am suggesting. I just think that we need to realize that as the dominant species in the ecosystem we play the largest role in determining the health of that ecosystem. Blindly killing off all the animals that we consider pests does not seem to be the best way to confront problems in my opinion. Has there not been movements by Walleye anglers to kill off Muskies because they considered them a pest? There seem to be similarities between killing off Musky ad killing off Cormorants.
jedimaster Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 Accept now people like Musky.Bass fishermen hate Pike. Walleye diehards hate crappie... but pretty much all fishermen hate Cormorants. If we as fishermen really wanted fish to increase in numbers we would all stop fishing for 5 years. Imagine is not a single lure or hook hit the water for 5 years.
manitoubass2 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 Accept now people like Musky.Bass fishermen hate Pike. Walleye diehards hate crappie... but pretty much all fishermen hate Cormorants. If we as fishermen really wanted fish to increase in numbers we would all stop fishing for 5 years. Imagine is not a single lure or hook hit the water for 5 years. If everyone stopped fishing for 5 years, I'd go insane. But it would be neat to see how the fish reacted to that type of thing. Also, I think anglers have improved leaps and bounds as far as respecting other species of fish? At least it seems that way, to me, in my area. All fish play a roll in, and so do cormorants I suppose. I for one used to hate suckers, now every year I target them for a few days when they feed at the top of the rapids. So fun to catch a solid 15lber that runs into the rapids, feels similar to steelheading. Great fun
jedimaster Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 I have often wondered what would happen if the had rolling catch and release fishing, so that every lake would have CnR fishing only for a couple years... Not saying I would be all that happy about it, but it sure would be interesting to see how a large lake system would respond to something like that.
manitoubass2 Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 I have often wondered what would happen if the had rolling catch and release fishing, so that every lake would have CnR fishing only for a couple years... Not saying I would be all that happy about it, but it sure would be interesting to see how a large lake system would respond to something like that. I could handle the C&R only, and yes, it would be very interesting. Especially on lakes like rainy lake or lake of the woods.
Gregoire Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 There are lakes that are C&R only. I'd love to see this happen in some waterways. I fish in downtown Toronto and would love to see that area be a C&R area. When you consider that a lot of the fish in this area may not be that healthy It might be a good idea.
Pigeontroller Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 The Point I was trying to make is that WE are causing way more harm to this planet...So, should we start culling humans? No way! But don't worry, nature has its own way of dealing with over populations...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted February 11, 2011 Report Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) amen PT. as resource users we have to stop pointing fingers at cormorants, aboriginal netting, aka the other guy syndrome and realize that we are all responsible for the decline of our fisheries. but i love the argument that "we used to be able to catch a pail of perch in an hour here whenever we wanted"... hmmmm... food for thought. Edited February 11, 2011 by Dr. Salvelinus
Jonny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Fact is, there are a lot of significant factors to point a finger at, including sport fishing, but I don't think that means we should stop pointing fingers. I don't remember the exact netting quota for the native fishery on Nipissing but I believe it's pegged at about 65-70 % of the total allowable catch of walleye. Is it too high? Nobody is really sure. Sport fishermen impact the lake heavily as well, summer and winter. We already have reduced limits and a slot size for walleye (for sport angling) because the fishery is stressed. Add thousands upon thousands of cormorants to that scenario and it's no wonder that the idea of controlling cormorants gets a lot of support. I mean, look at the pictures of that cut-open cormorant. That bird gorged itself on dozens of bait-fish perch in one very short feeding period (the perch are hardly digested). The thing is a damned underwater vacuum cleaner! Repeat that every day, or several times a day, over the open water season and multiply it by thousands of birds and you start to have an inkling of the impact these birds probably have. I don't think I'm comfortable with throwing up our hands and saying either: a ) There's nothing we can do or b ) This is a natural cycle and we just have to let it take its course Both of these things seem to be a cop out if we want to preserve fisheries and preserve environment. I'll show you something I'm afraid of happening, separate from the fishing issue... The attached photos show some of the small island habitat that is rather rare along the north shore of Nipissing. If I see cormorants starting to show indications of nesting on these islands and turning them into a stinking wasteland, you can be sure I won't be sitting around waiting for someone else to do something... Edited February 12, 2011 by Jocko
Gregoire Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 Jocko, you seem to have a lot of issues that you are dealing with. Did you read the old posts on this topic. You definitely have a point, but I think you should consider the human impact on fish stocks before you blame and cull an animal.
Jonny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) Jocko, you seem to have a lot of issues that you are dealing with. Did you read the old posts on this topic. You definitely have a point, but I think you should consider the human impact on fish stocks before you blame and cull an animal. Yes, Greg, I read the previous thread in its entirety. I should give you a bit of background so you know where I'm coming from. When I was a kid, I fished Lake Nipissing with great regularity with my parents in the 50's and 60's and we didn't even know what a cormorant looked like. There were absolutely NONE on the lake. If we had seen one we would have researched it. My family are avid bird watchers. At times when a cormorant flock on Nipissing is the largest, I've done counts on them, and I have seen flocks that easily top a thousand birds. Once I estimated 1500 by going through a video I took in slow motion mode. You will see "600+" mentioned in the 2004 letter because I had not seen the bigger flocks yet. December 2, 2004 Hon David Ramsay Minister of Natural Resources Queen's Park Toronto, ON M7A 1W3 Dear Mr. Ramsay: Thank you for your reply to my letter about the explosion ofthe cormorant population on Lake Nipissing. But with all due respect, Minister, your response entirelymisses the point. Lake Nipissing in 2004 cannot stand the depletion of itsfisheries by flocks of 600+ cormorants like it might have in decades past. I am quite confident in saying that in the 1960's and 1970's you wouldn't have found a single cormorant on the lake, yet the current large population, especially given the current condition of the fishery on LakeNipissing, gives you no pause? You say that "cormorants and other fish-eating birds consume a significant amount of fish" on the lake. In one way I am glad to see this confirmation, but it's misleading to lump cormorants in with other fish-eating birds. There is no other bird in such large numbers that is such an accomplished fisher. Certainly the only bird that could match the numbers would be the herring gull, which is primarily a scavenger, with no ability to dive and actively pursue fish. In a time when the fishery is dwindling, and the demands of sport-fishing and the native fishery, as well as long-term sustainability, are barely being met, it is not sufficient to simply be monitoring the situation.This needs active study – i.e. money has to be spent on it – and it needs action. Cormorants, regardless of whether they once existed on the lake, were extinct on the lake 40 years ago. I submit that they are not a species which we need to tolerate just because a few of them once happened to be there. I can recall no instances of seeing cormorants on Lake Nipissing in the 1950's, before DDT became an environmental problem that supposedly wiped out numbers of them. I'm afraid that if you haven't seen cormorants in action, you have no idea of the scale of the problem. That's why I sent a picture along with my first letter. In the summer of 2005, I would like to see the North Bay MNR biologist and other staff come to the Great North Bay of Lake Nipissing with video cameras, so they can film the cormorants and send the video on to you. You will see a vast cloud of these birds progressing along the bay like a vacuum cleaner, and simultaneously you will see more birds flying in from the south part of the lake, stacked up like bomber formations in World War Two. In the 70's, by contrast, you would have seen NOT ONE of these birds. Yours truly, I've been at this for a while, with letters to the minister and letters to the editor of the North Bay Nugget. Edited February 12, 2011 by Jocko
Gregoire Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 You have obviously made numerous attempts raise awareness about cormorants. What impact have you seen on the fishery?
Rich Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 lol You could stick 300 of those birds of Long Point Bay and they aren't nearly so harmful as the human locals.
Muskieman Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 You have obviously made numerous attempts raise awareness about cormorants. What impact have you seen on the fishery? I'm with Jocko in this one.. As a lifelong Nipissing resident and angler ... Impact: when I was 10 years old I was able to walk 1 block away from my home after school and fish from shore.. bring back a limit of 6 Walleye in about 30 minutes anyday of the week...during the summer I would spend all week fishing and was able to catch fish after fish...not just (Nipissing's golden nugget)Walleye...my catches would vary everyday...from Smallies , Redhorses, Pike , Muskie,Sturgeon and all sorts of coarse fish along with an abundant amount of Eyes. Now 23 years later,I bring my kids to the very spot that used to be so successful. we sometimes spend all day down there and see 4 fish all day. Every species of fish that dwells in Nipissing has taken a substantial hit. Now this is just one little anecdote... multiply that by 6000+ local anglers .. and now we have a problem.. I can assure you that anglers have a large role to play in the problem.. Some might say that it's cyclical I do know this ...in the late 70's and early 80's there were no flocks of 1000+ Cormorants in the cycle. Randy
Gregoire Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 I'm with Jocko in this one.. As a lifelong Nipissing resident and angler ... Impact: when I was 10 years old I was able to walk 1 block away from my home after school and fish from shore.. bring back a limit of 6 Walleye in about 30 minutes anyday of the week...during the summer I would spend all week fishing and was able to catch fish after fish...not just (Nipissing's golden nugget)Walleye...my catches would vary everyday...from Smallies , Redhorses, Pike , Muskie,Sturgeon and all sorts of coarse fish along with an abundant amount of Eyes. Now 23 years later,I bring my kids to the very spot that used to be so successful. we sometimes spend all day down there and see 4 fish all day. Every species of fish that dwells in Nipissing has taken a substantial hit. Now this is just one little anecdote... multiply that by 6000+ local anglers .. and now we have a problem.. I can assure you that anglers have a large role to play in the problem.. Some might say that it's cyclical I do know this ...in the late 70's and early 80's there were no flocks of 1000+ Cormorants in the cycle. Randy That sounds like a very frustrating situation. My only point is that there are probably a lot of factors that have caused this problem. It is easy to find a scapegoat and blame the cormorants, because then the problem isn't us.
Jonny Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 My only point is that there are probably a lot of factors that have caused this problem. It is easy to find a scapegoat and blame the cormorants, because then the problem isn't us. For sport anglers on Nipissing we have reduced limits and slot limits. For the native netting fishery there is a quota (perhaps excessive, but a quota). Those are the two biggest impacts on the lake. Cormorants are the wild card... something that didn't impact the lake in the past. We don't really need thousands of cormorants thrown into the mix. They're NOT a scapegoat --- we know that fishery problems don't rest solely (or even mainly) with cormorants. What they are is an unaddressed problem loaded on top of other problems that are already being addressed.
Gregoire Posted February 12, 2011 Report Posted February 12, 2011 (edited) For sport anglers on Nipissing we have reduced limits and slot limits. For the native netting fishery there is a quota (perhaps excessive, but a quota). Those are the two biggest impacts on the lake. Cormorants are the wild card... something that didn't impact the lake in the past. We don't really need thousands of cormorants thrown into the mix. They're NOT a scapegoat --- we know that fishery problems don't rest solely (or even mainly) with cormorants. What they are is an unaddressed problem loaded on top of other problems that are already being addressed. Noun 1. scapegoat - someone who is punished for the errors of others I would counter that according to the definition that is exactly what you are doing. I do not necessarily think that controlling animal populations should not be done (however I do not think that it is not ideal) i just think that we need to recognize that human beings have the single largest impact on the ecosystem. Blindly stating that culling or exterminating the population of cormorants will solve all our problems sets a dangerous precedent. All I am arguing is that we need be aware that this attitude, or philosophy if you prefer, is problematic Edited February 12, 2011 by fishgreg
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