Lake Nipissing Pickerel - Where Can I Buy?

[Gerritt]

Of course it's not fair.

 

One group is allowed free rein, the other is forced to abide by laws and regulations.

 

Don't expect anything to change until it's too late.

 

Crosshair neglected to mention the other native anglers who are selling fish in roadside stands and out of the back of their trucks.

 

How are they being regulated?

 

Don't tell me that's not happening because I've seen it.

 

Nipissing has been one of the top tourist destinations in ON and has been for generations.

 

It's value both economic and intrinsic is priceless.

 

It boggles my mind that government would allow such a decline.

 

Yes overharvest by non natives has also played a role (especially in winter), but no one can tell me that the leading cause of the decline in the walleye fishery isn't native netting.

 

This topic has been hashed and rehashed so many times it makes me nauseous even replying to this.

 

It's been said before but until the natives in this country stop getting subsidized by our government and integrate fully with the rest of society they will continue to be this countries leading social problem.

 

If any of you liberal minded people really believe that we can all work together (natives and non natives alike) to create a healthier, stronger fishery in Nippissing then you're deluded.

 

You're living a dream world.

 

In order for the lake to bounce back to historical levels drastic measures need to be taken.

 

If it was up to me I'd ban all netting and put a 10 year moratorium on all winter fishing.

 

Unfortunately that's never going to happen.

 

 

You have hit the nail on the head. We have had many discussions about this while playing cards or out fishing on Nip.. and the same resounding conclusion is made... just as you put it.

 

G

[canadadude]

Still the same old blame game, been like this for the last 20yrs

[Billy Bob]

Still the same old blame game, been like this for the last 20yrs

 

Yes you are right.....but we need to come together in this world. We will NEVER be united until we all live under the same rules. Can you at least agree on this ? ? ?

 

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL. I know many don't like a outsider telling you what to do but sometimes we see better from a step back.

 

Does anyone remember the "Blue Pike" in Lake Erie......the walleye can disappear on the Nip just as easily.

[crosshairs]

There are some commercial guys who are selling non certified fish (not cleaned in a CFIA inspected facility) and those who aren't even part of the program. The non certified are counted, and the "poachers" fish are accounted for and are included in the quota. The First nation has a really good handle on the number of fish being caught, that is the main part of their whole purpose. They even publish their numbers, I beleive they had went over the quota alittle this past year. It was published by choice not need.

 

There are approx 20 boats, and the enforcement are out approximately 4-5 shifts per week. To be eligible for unemployment stamps fish must be purchased by the first nation.

 

The data set for lake nipissing has shown an increase in population for the past 13 years in all age classes, last year the numbers dropped off the map. Not just one age class (which could explain who was catching that size) but all age classes. This is whats being looked into at this time.

 

As for the age old fight of treaties and equal rights, these were government to goverment agreements produced by the crown to share the lands we lived on. There was no wars because of these treaties, and for the comment about stopping our subsidies, these are al part of the ttreaty as well as resource sharing which hasn't occured in canada yet. There is a site GLIFWIC which is a first nation run operation like ours except a much larger scale and funded throught the US revenue sharing agreement. I beleive it is in michigan. Very interesting site.

 

Take care all, I might not be for a couple days. New born in the house. lol

[JimC]

Ok... now many here will probably know that I have an opinion and a very strong one at that about this topic. However, with that being said, I'm trying to be open minded here.

Can someone here please tell me how opening up the Nip Pickereye market to many more sales opportuinties is beneficial to the fishery?

Can anyone tell me how putting a biologist on their payroll is going to be beneficial to all parties interest?

Can anyone tell me how the local band is dealing with folks who are not participating in this operation and are simply loading up trucks to sell "under the table"

What authority, if any do the band leaders have over folks who are not using the newly opened processing facility? What good is a biologist if they are only getting some of the info they need?

To the OP... glad your trip turned out good, glad yah got a feed of fish.

HH

 

Thanks for weighing in, HH, and for your positive thoughts re our family vacation. The lady in Camp who filets Pike like a surgeon is also an amazing 'shore lunch' style cook, so the entire Camp had a satisfying taste of Pickerel and Pike, deep fried to perfection.

 

re: Can someone here please tell me how opening up the Nip Pickereye market to many more sales opportunities is beneficial to the fishery?

 

Seems a bit of a contradiction of terms doesn't it? Well my hope (and there has to be hope here) is that 'quotas' will be respected no matter what, and that market price adjustments (up or down) will make the New retail / direct to Restaurant arrangement sustainable. Of course buyers (joe public, and reputable restaurants) need to give the 'pickup truck' questionable fish handling / quality, a pass. Hey, these dudes can get with the program and make more money for their catch.

 

re: Can anyone tell me how putting a biologist on their payroll is going to be beneficial to all parties interest?

Ok, well imho, this is where 'trust' comes in ... and I trust that a Professional Biologist, has the integrity to carry out his work honestly (creel counts, etc), make tough recommendations (eg. reduce quotas), when necessary, to sustain the Walleye fishery, and if NOT followed by NFN, resign.

 

re: Can anyone tell me how the local band is dealing with folks who are not participating in this operation and are simply loading up trucks to sell "under the table"

My understanding is that the 'program' is voluntary, as it should be. But those who choose to opt out, then abuse the fishery (gill netting during spawning ... then selling 'under the table') that risks the new retailing program, deserve to be shunned by the band, ignore them and their families ... peer pressure is powerful.

Plus, who is buying their questionable catch ... I for one, wouldn't touch any of it with a 10ft pole, at any price. Established, reputable restaurants won't touch it either.

 

re: What authority, if any do the band leaders have over folks who are not using the newly opened processing facility? What good is a biologist if they are only getting some of the info they need?

Another good question, HH ... pretty sure bet the Band leaders (and the Biologist) know full well who the "under the table" guys are, and what their approx. 'rape' ...er, harvest, would be. Hey, its a small community in the big scheme of things. I also believe that if the 2-retail outlet, and some limited direct sell to restaurants program is successful, more will opt in. Why wouldn't they?

Edited August 31, 2010 by JimC

[JimC]

There are some commercial guys who are selling non certified fish (not cleaned in a CFIA inspected facility) and those who aren't even part of the program. The non certified are counted, and the "poachers" fish are accounted for and are included in the quota. The First nation has a really good handle on the number of fish being caught, that is the main part of their whole purpose. They even publish their numbers, I beleive they had went over the quota alittle this past year. It was published by choice not need.

 

There are approx 20 boats, and the enforcement are out approximately 4-5 shifts per week. To be eligible for unemployment stamps fish must be purchased by the first nation.

 

The data set for lake nipissing has shown an increase in population for the past 13 years in all age classes, last year the numbers dropped off the map. Not just one age class (which could explain who was catching that size) but all age classes. This is whats being looked into at this time.

 

As for the age old fight of treaties and equal rights, these were government to goverment agreements produced by the crown to share the lands we lived on. There was no wars because of these treaties, and for the comment about stopping our subsidies, these are al part of the ttreaty as well as resource sharing which hasn't occured in canada yet. There is a site GLIFWIC which is a first nation run operation like ours except a much larger scale and funded throught the US revenue sharing agreement. I beleive it is in michigan. Very interesting site.

 

Take care all, I might not be for a couple days. New born in the house. lol

 

Crosshairs ... As the initiator of this thread, I want to thank you for your 'insightful' and positive comments. Your 'inside scoop' might help some here with strong opinions against NFN commercially selling pickerel, take a 'wait and see' approach. As you said in an earlier post, it's a good idea to ask questions and have an open discussion on this subject ... I certainly concur, so long as it remains respectful.

 

and Congrats on the 'newborn'. As a recent first time Grandpa ... there's no feeling like it.

Edited August 31, 2010 by JimC

[Nipfisher]

Congratulations Crosshairs. I sent you a PM.

[Headhunter]

Thanks to all who have replied to this topic. I appreciate the civil way this has been discussed. Emotions run high in these conversations and for good reason.

That said, emotions certainly come into play when one party, who deems themselves to be the victim, find themselves having to "trust" the integrity and good will of their fellow man... throw money into the equation and well, trust goes right out of the window.

As many have mentioned, the well being of the lake is of the utmost importance and it's health came be directly related to the commercial success of many diverse people and businesses.

Lake Nip is owned by the population of Ontario. Currently, Ontario has a population of approximately 12.9 million, all of which has a right, under law to use the resource within the bounds of the law.

Nipissing first nation has a population of approximately 2000 people... yet they have virtual control over fish stocks for the entire lake. There seems, to my simple mind anyway, to be a fair amount of disproportional representation in these numbers. I can't think of any other situation where such numbers could happen.

I won't get into the whole treaty thing as, well, those agreements were signed at a time when they made sense to both sides based on circumstances of the day, but times have changed and "progress" for lack of a better word, has been made. Laws are amended all the time to reflect changes in our society, unfortunately there is NO POLITICAL WILL to do anything... it's a can of worms that no politician, at any level, wants to let out.

Given that I personally can't do anything to influence this situation, I guess I will "continue to hope" that people will do the right thing... but my life experience has told me to not hold my breath...

HH

[JimC]

HH @ 09:54am ... Very good summary of what a lot of folks are feeling. and since I started this topic, ditto for me re: your first point.

 

A couple of final points / comments:

- the NFN have a golden opportunity to get top dollar for Lake Nipissing Pickerel (but also including Perch, (boneless) Pike, whitefish, etc) through proper use of the new, squeaky clean, government inspected cleaning station, and (two) retail outlets, that will be sustainable only if they LEAD THE WAY, in protecting the resource. Politicians aren't the answer, and we know it.

 

- the slot restriction on Walleye, for non-natives has to go ... at least in its present form. It is too restrictive, and is the cause of much of the resentment that is festering, imho. If an expanding commercial fishery is ok for the resource, then a one-per-day Pickerel of any size for non-natives is reasonable, and let's bump up the minimum to the rest of the Zone. The inconsistency in the present situation is ridiculous.

 

- Under certain circumstances, I would buy fish from the approved NFN retail outlets, and only there. No "under the table" pickup trucks for me, thanks anyway.

 

- I hope everyone reading this, and especially NFN band leaders pressure the Provincial Government to sanction a controlled cull of Cormorants. I believe these birds are doing more damage to the fishery than we realize. My understanding is that they are native to ocean coasts and have moved inland for easy pickings. They are every bit a much of an 'invasive species' problem as a goby or what have you. Cormorants begone.

 

- at $14+ per pound retail, and $23+ for a dinner at an established North Bay restaurant, like Churchills, or Inn-on-the-Bay, I can't see the working stiffs, seniors on fixed incomes, etc, in the area, gobling up all the Pickerel in the Lake anytime soon. But, for the first time, average folks in North Bay, Sturgeon Falls and area without means to fish themselves, can legitimately treat themselves to an occasional pickerel (or perch or pike) dinner they cook themselves.

 

 

I expect this thread to 'die' a natural death very soon; however, if anyone has anything new to bring to the table (no pun intended), then by all means, resurrect it as you see fit. Just my 2-cents worth.

 

Good fishing, all.

Edited August 31, 2010 by JimC

[Bernie]

Good posts guys.

Allowing fish in the slot is defeating the original purpose of releasing them.

Unfortunately this system will not work in the present situation.

Shorter seasons or as Solo suggested a complete closure to ALL to allow fish stocks to rebuild. This won't happen either as the tourist operators depend on fishing seasons to operate.

So what is the solution? Dang if I know.

Years ago the season was closed through the winter and ice fishing wasn't allowed.

Perhaps alternating closing seasons winter/summer?

All I can honestly tell you is at the present pace, regardless of any biologists "expert" opinion (sorry), is that no one will have anything to catch in the near future.

[fishnsled]

Thanks to all who have replied to this topic. I appreciate the civil way this has been discussed. Emotions run high in these conversations and for good reason.

That said, emotions certainly come into play when one party, who deems themselves to be the victim, find themselves having to "trust" the integrity and good will of their fellow man... throw money into the equation and well, trust goes right out of the window.

As many have mentioned, the well being of the lake is of the utmost importance and it's health came be directly related to the commercial success of many diverse people and businesses.

Lake Nip is owned by the population of Ontario. Currently, Ontario has a population of approximately 12.9 million, all of which has a right, under law to use the resource within the bounds of the law.

Nipissing first nation has a population of approximately 2000 people... yet they have virtual control over fish stocks for the entire lake. There seems, to my simple mind anyway, to be a fair amount of disproportional representation in these numbers. I can't think of any other situation where such numbers could happen.

I won't get into the whole treaty thing as, well, those agreements were signed at a time when they made sense to both sides based on circumstances of the day, but times have changed and "progress" for lack of a better word, has been made. Laws are amended all the time to reflect changes in our society, unfortunately there is NO POLITICAL WILL to do anything... it's a can of worms that no politician, at any level, wants to let out.

Given that I personally can't do anything to influence this situation, I guess I will "continue to hope" that people will do the right thing... but my life experience has told me to not hold my breath...

HH

 

 

Well said Joe.

 

Good post guys, nice to see all the opinions on the subject. I know that I will never buy a fish from a lake that I'm able to go out and get it for myself. If I don't get it the steak will be fine on it's own. I've had store bought walleye that others have bought and the taste is just not nearly as good as the ones you catch yourself. So for myself, why bother buying it?

 

For a lake that is hurting from both fishing pressure and netting something must be done. But like others have said, what do you do? What if anything can be done to keep everyone happy? What will be done when the resource is gone???