Need to rant and rave

[raptorfan]

Sorry guys,

 

I need to rant and rave, and a fishing forum seems perfect for this rant.

 

In the fall, after joining this forum, I decided to try my luck at steelheading. My first 5 or 6 times out, I used my spinning reel on a 10'6" Quantum IM8 rod. I didn't like the feel of drifting with this reel, so I went to see Jos and bought my first centerpin (some of you may remember my post and excitement about that). I have watched a tonne of videos, how-to's, read the posts from the guys who actually know what they are doing on here, and even fished with a couple of people who actually know what they are doing.

 

The problem is.....after 18 outings and probably 100+ hours of pinning.....I still haven't caught a bloody fish!!!!!!!

 

I don't stay in the same spot too long, I stay long enough to drift the different currents in each spot 5 or 6 times at a different depth each time. I think I am learning to read the waters I fish pretty well. I do try and limit my fishing to only 3 or 4 different water bodies so that I can increase my knowledge and comfort level with that body of water each time I go out. The problem I am finding, because I know I must be doing something wrong, is how am I supposed to learn from my mistakes if I never get it right and get a fish? Know what I mean?

 

The thing that baffles me though is that even the people I go with don't get fish, and they know what they are doing somewhat! Am I just the unluckiest guy on this forum? I for one am not afraid of knowledge. There are some who pretend they know everything because they are afraid to learn something new, or something at all, because it would point to them that they were wrong in the first place. That is definately not me, I will be the first to admit when I am wrong most of the time.

 

Maybe it is just my timing that is off when I choose to hit up these spots, but I am sure there is more to it than that. I know for sure there will be some of you post on here that I just need to suck it up, and you went through all this when you started and I just need to put in my time. I know that I need to put in my time, so I don't really need to hear that. Like I said earlier, I am always very willing to learn, but when I come home and see other posting great results from the same day I fished and I didn't even get a sniff it really gets dejecting. I love this sport, and I do thoroughly enjoy centerpinning. The scenery you see on these inland rivers and streams is absolutely breathtaking. It is the one thing that keeps me going back out.....well that and the hope of finally landing my first trout on a pin.

 

Hopefully one day soon there will be a post from me containing nothing but a photo and sheer exuberance.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Shawn

[Dutchy]

The problem is.....after 18 outings and probably 100+ hours of pinning.....I still haven't caught a bloody fish!!!!!!!

Shawn

 

Your doing pretty well I probably fished a good 150 hours before I landed one. That does include hook-ups and losing them during the fight. I found it to be a pretty huge learning curve. All I can say is stick with it and you'll get one eventually. Tricky buggers so they are. Last year I fished probably 100 hours and got one 4lb fish and a few shakers. And I fish with people who know what they are doing. Its not an easy fish to catch. Probably not the help you were looking for........

[Dondorfish]

First off - let me start by saying that I know absolutely nothing about that type of fishing, have never tried it YET.

After reading your post, I was wondering how you made out fishing these same waters with the spinning real setup? If you had success with it, that would lead me to think that somewhere in the use of the pin reel would lie your problem.

 

I am thinking about trying the stream fishing but it would be like you, with a spinning set up first.

 

Good luck

 

Don

[vance]

A friend of mine was having the same problem with his attempts at fly fishing and his wife got so sick of hearing it for his birthday she got him a full day of guided fly fishing with a REAL pro.It was then he discovered he LOVED his wife and how to catch fish with a fly rod.I am sure if you PMed some of the members on the board that do well they would take you out for some schooling.

 

vance

[raptorfan]

Your doing pretty well I probably fished a good 150 hours before I landed one. That does include hook-ups and losing them during the fight. I found it to be a pretty huge learning curve. All I can say is stick with it and you'll get one eventually. Tricky buggers so they are. Last year I fished probably 100 hours and got one 4lb fish and a few shakers. And I fish with people who know what they are doing. Its not an easy fish to catch. Probably not the help you were looking for........

 

I still have to get my first hook up......I think I have had a couple of hits but I missed them. Thanks for the info man, I guess it is just hard to take as I listen to some talk about getting 4, 6, 12 fish in a day. Hopefully one day I can be in that league.....

[Dozer]

Pffffft, you suck!

 

Haha, look its really quite simple. Talk to people on the river, find out what the fish are sampling and use it. You also have to know what your bait is doing in the water, whether its dragging on the bottom, floating, etc.

 

Fish every part of the river, I find that on clear water days the fish love to sit in log jams. Be stealthy.

 

Maybe there are no fish... last week Monday my local creek was on fire! Last week Wednesday nothing was in the creek 'cause everyone shot up stream?

 

Purchase some books, I read a bunch of books on steelhead and it REALLY helped out. Kenneth R Jaynes' book titled Great Lakes Steelhead fishing goes into a lot of detail.

 

And rather than working different water bodies, stick to one and learn it.

 

Hate to tell you, but good luck landing your first fish. But that first hook up with a brute will make you shake.

 

Are you from Toronto?

 

I'm jokin' about the you suck thing... it takes a while.

[raptorfan]

First off - let me start by saying that I know absolutely nothing about that type of fishing, have never tried it YET.

After reading your post, I was wondering how you made out fishing these same waters with the spinning real setup? If you had success with it, that would lead me to think that somewhere in the use of the pin reel would lie your problem.

 

I am thinking about trying the stream fishing but it would be like you, with a spinning set up first.

 

Good luck

 

Don

 

I had no luck with the spinning set up at all, which was why I decided to go to the pin....for a smoother presentation. Good luck with it when you get into it man, it is enjoyable.

[raptorfan]

A friend of mine was having the same problem with his attempts at fly fishing and his wife got so sick of hearing it for his birthday she got him a full day of guided fly fishing with a REAL pro.It was then he discovered he LOVED his wife and how to catch fish with a fly rod.I am sure if you PMed some of the members on the board that do well they would take you out for some schooling.

 

vance

 

I have PM'd a couple with little or no response. I have thought about paying a guide this spring to maybe help me out. I think once I get into that first one, everything might start to click a little bit. Thanks

[raptorfan]

Pffffft, you suck!

 

Haha, look its really quite simple. Talk to people on the river, find out what the fish are sampling and use it. You also have to know what your bait is doing in the water, whether its dragging on the bottom, floating, etc.

 

Fish every part of the river, I find that on clear water days the fish love to sit in log jams. Be stealthy.

 

Maybe there are no fish... last week Monday my local creek was on fire! Last week Wednesday nothing was in the creek 'cause everyone shot up stream?

 

Purchase some books, I read a bunch of books on steelhead and it REALLY helped out. Kenneth R Jaynes' book titled Great Lakes Steelhead fishing goes into a lot of detail.

 

And rather than working different water bodies, stick to one and learn it.

 

Hate to tell you, but good luck landing your first fish. But that first hook up with a brute will make you shake.

 

Are you from Toronto?

 

I'm jokin' about the you suck thing... it takes a while.

 

Thanks for the info. I will definately find and buy that book. One of the first things I do when I get out is check out what the other anglers are using when they are around, and I always talk to the others as well. No better way to learn than to ask questions. I am down in the lake erie area, but do fish the Toronto area once in a while.

[Dozer]

If you're ever around Toronto, shoot me a PM, we'll go hook into some fish

[raptorfan]

If you're ever around Toronto, shoot me a PM, we'll go hook into some fish

 

For sure man, thanks for the offer. I usually go out on weekends, so if you are gonna be out and about let me know.

[timmeh]

I would strongly consider looking into a guided trip. No offense to your friends you're fishing with but if they're not catching anything they probably can't really help you too much. Think about the $$ you've spent on equipment plus gas money, and it's probably worth spending paying a little extra to get the most out of it.

[vinnimon]

Hang in there raptor.There were times I caught a dozen or more in an outing.But lately its been slower for me,too slow.Too many hours invested, but when I hook up with one it was worth it.If in doubt get a guide esp if your going to fish that body quite often.Its well worth it.If you cant afford that then see the gents at the local fly shop, they ussually keep current records on everything in the area.Dont forget to spend a few bucks there as well, and a round of coffees goes a long way as well.A few flies on the end of the rod could make a good day of fishing.

[MJL]

Hire a guide or tag along with someone who fishes as much as one. It will cut your learning curve in half (or more). A lot of the time, changing one or two small things can make all the difference – In my experience with guiding beginners (similar to you who've already put a lot of time into it), all I had to do in most cases was add more shot to the line, slide the float up or tell them to keep their line off the water.

 

I love fishing rivers. Rivers are a lot like women. They’re full of nice curves and sometimes you get lucky

[fish_fishburn]

Raptorfan, you sound just like me 20 yrs ago when I started fishing bass tournaments. It's not that I didn't know how to catch bass but in every tournament I would do just fine on day one,and then on day two I would siht the bed because I didn't move or change my tactics due to weather changes etc. I would buy every magazine or video I could get my hands on and study it religously. I bought every new bait that came along listened to the pros on the fishing shows and nothing seemed to work. I have probably fifteen shoe boxes full of baits that haven't seen daylight in ten years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't believe everything you read and watch on a video because probably 75% of it is bull siht. You seem like a good guy and I feel for you and know exactly how frustrated you are. You have been fishing for awhile I assume and know how to fish. All these articles in magazines and videos and the pros that endorse them have one objective and that is to sell the product.

I am not saying they are bad people because I have met quite a few of them over the years but thats there job. And if the numbers don't add up at the end of the year there sponsors will cut them loose. Maybe you are suffering from information overload. I know I was. And when I just got back to the basics and really started to analyse my days on the water things started to change for me and I started to win a few bucks here and there and even started to win a few tournaments. I am still trying new baits that come along but mostly I fish the baits that I am most confident with, and most of the time they produce. Look at drop shotting for example. Thats how I fished when I was 5 yrs old. Now its such a big deal you need a certian type of rod and this and that blah blah blah, what a pile of siht. Its all marketing. After a hundred hours that other site fishing for steel and you haven't caught one yet means only better things are to come if you keep at it my friend. Wish I was there when you do cause I would enjoy watching it more than catching one myself. Keep a positive attitude, and remember to much information can be a bad thing. Sorry for rambling on and if I pissed a few pros off but just giving my honest opinion and trying to help a fellow angler.

[raptorfan]

Thanks for the encouragement and advice everyone........it is only a matter of time and timing.

[tdotfisherman]

Steelhead are funny fish man..

 

I've had outings where I've caught multiple Steelhead in the same pool..

 

BUT.. I've also gone an entire season without catching one..

 

Don't lose patience, keep plugging, and eventually good things will come.

 

Think about it this way.. a bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work!

[solopaddler]

Steelhead are one of the easiest fish to catch.

Once you master the most basic presentation techniques success boils down to one thing: timing.

 

These fish are migratory and react to water flow and temperature.

 

Once you figure out where and when you should be fishing the catching will come easy.

[Dutchy]

I still have to get my first hook up......I think I have had a couple of hits but I missed them. Thanks for the info man, I guess it is just hard to take as I listen to some talk about getting 4, 6, 12 fish in a day. Hopefully one day I can be in that league.....

 

These guys who get that many fish are few and far between and have probably been steelheading for years in the same river. Its not the norm. I was fishing on saturday in an area with probably another 15 guys. I saw one fish caught, 3 lost (including one by me) and nowt else. I fish with a guy who catches them all the time. He caught 3 that morning, came down at night with us and didn't get a hit. There is a huge amount of luck in it too. The one thing I have learned over the time I have been doing it is that steelhead often hit very lightly, a 6lb fish will hit like a 1lb fish. The float might only stop, not go under and if you don't strike, its already gone. You have probably had alot more than 2 hits you just didn't recognize they were at your bait.

 

If you just want to hook up a fish, maybe try still fishing for them with a weight. I have caught some that way although it can be boring. You sure know when they hit though

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

i spent years mucking around with limited success. spend the money on the gear and spend the time on the river.

 

 

i can think of things that likely are limiting your success as a beginner (thinking back to my experimentations the last few years):

 

1) what cast do you use? are you able to hit near and far seams accurate and repeatedly? is your line tangling often?

 

2) do you have proper shot or are you using big stuff?

 

3) what size of float are you using? as a beginner there is a tendency to use too much float/weight because it makes the rod easier to cast

 

4) are you "trotting"?

 

also, as solo said these fish (and your success rate) are dictated by environmental stimulus. getting a feel for when certain rivers in your area peak is part of the program for us addicts...eventually you get a feel for for what type of conditions/season are best for what tribs...

 

some days it's bad luck, but after that many hours i'd say it comes down to something you are (or aren't) doing.

[troutologist]

Do you keep a fishing log?

 

Each outing you go take note of weather, winds, temps cloud cover. More importantly, water temp, clarity and colours. This will put a database of when fish move into your favourite rivers and when they are more catchable.

 

Fish a few rivers and get to know their moods, I can tell you right now from 1500km away how certain rivers I used to fish look, check out the flow gauges, befriend an MNR fire employee and they can get you better precip levels, away from Environment Canada weather stations.

 

The Dr. and I spent a lot of years with little success learning on our own how to figure out steelhead, resources are great but keep on fishing.

 

2 last thoughts, are you sure you're in the right place at the right time or just a convienent one? Want to catch fish, go to the flow that is prime conditions, alot of guys are driving 8 hours or more to fish prime conditions.

 

If you're not catching and the fish are there its time for a complete revamp of your rigging, line, shotting pattern/amount etc. Start over with something out of your comfort zone.

[justin elia]

Steelhead are one of the easiest fish to catch.

Once you master the most basic presentation techniques success boils down to one thing: timing.

 

These fish are migratory and react to water flow and temperature.

 

Once you figure out where and when you should be fishing the catching will come easy.

 

Mike is bang on. Steelhead are one of the most predictable fish to target. Not to say that its easy for beginners but the learning curve is a fast one compared to other species. For beginners, I would suggest that you mainly target fall running steelhead and spring dropback steelhead. The main reason in the fall, for one, is that there is way more open water to target them in. Typically in the fall, after the first cold rain around October you should start to see steelhead show up in the rivers. Water will drop and clear faster, bunching up larger numbers of fish.

 

In the spring (dropbacks), the entire rivers are wide open and the fish are hungry. Find a pool with a shallow tail out or a log jam and you'll be in steelhead heaven.

 

Keep at it, you'll be addicted soon enough.

 

If you have any other questions, dont be shy.

 

Justin

[Harrison]

Solopaddler nailed it. I would focus more on figuring out the "fishable" conditions. Like any steelheader starting out you can rack up the kilometers travelling from one creek to the other. One might be gin clear, another chocolate milk, then one has perfect visiability. After years of doing the same milk run of creeks you will key in on what river should be fishable with the weather conditions without have to go and see. This is more of a learning curve then what "equipment to use" IMO.

 

Then there is what presentation to use for the conditions.... it all comes with time on the bank.

 

Good Luck

Edited March 23, 2010 by Harrison

[asdve23rveavwa]

I agree with both Mike and "Harrison"...it is definitely timing. Also, become a master at a few rivers instead of hopping around from "trib" to "trib"...steelhead are a fish of instinct, catching them is not difficult once you master presentation and timing.

[muddler]

Some good advice aleady. The one piece of advice that I like to pass on to all new steelheaders (assuming the fish are there) is , present your offering as NATURALLY as possible. That means:

1. Carefully wading as NOT to spook the fish. Disturb the water as little as possible and you get more hits.

2. The clearer and slower the flow the lighter the tackle: ie leader and hook size, even bait size. Don't fall in love with a dollar size roe bag and a 2/0 hook because it works in the rapids 5 years ago.

3. Experiment. If no one is getting hits on roe then try flies, plastic/real worms. Change colour. be different. If everyone is catching them on a white cricket, then use that.

4. Use enough weight so that you 'tick' the streambed every so often. Adjust weight and depth for every situation.

5. Trot your offering. Have the bait preceed your float.

6. Get that bait right up against the wood. risk loosing a bit of tackle. If they are in the system, they'll be some in the wood.

7. Fish all kinds of water. Fast runs, slow frog water, boulders, wood and under-cut banks. cast well above your target and drift to your spot. Any water that affords protection from above (you can't see the bottom) will probably hold fish.

8. Get a thermometer. You'll learn it's magic real quick. A good fly fisherman check water temperature regularly.

9. If the bobber does anything unusual(stops, move side ways, goes down), set the hook. Firmly witha gentle sweep is all you need.

10. Use the lightest float you can and still effectively present your bait naturally. Use steelhead floats. Stay away from those with the wire spring in the end.

 

Before the internet, steelheading was a well kept secret in Ontario. Information was difficult to get. Now there is a ton of stuff available. Read and research, will answer a lot of questions. Soon you will get the "feel" for it and it will become much easier to catch one of these great fish.

 

muddler.