ScugogBoy Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I own a Pontiac Vibe....it is a carbon copy of the Toyota Matrix (2009).....the Toyotas are being recalled for the gas pedal problem, but nothing in the media about the GM Vibe........has the same pedal and we do experience a surge when you hit the pedal.........Why is GM not going into the media to warn Vibe owners and start a similiar recall.....called my GM dealership and they could not help me (they were aware of the similiar problem, but they had no instructions on what to do) I would hate to think GM is holding out on us because they just went through a tough time???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 How many reports has GM taken about sticky pedals? And it's not just a physical issue, it's also a software issue within the ECU itself... If there was a reason to recall, GM would issue one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vance Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 As a GM retiree and on the mailing list here is part of an email I received this week. Toyota Recall Campaign - Impact on Pontiac Vibe GM has received many questions from dealers and customers about the recently announced Toyota recall campaigns for unintended acceleration. Some of the inquiries have asked about the extent to which the Pontiac Vibe, a sister vehicle to the Toyota Matrix, also may be involved. The Vibe was engineered and designed by Toyota and built by New United Motor Manufacturing (NUMMI), a joint venture between Toyota and General Motors. We want to be as open as we can about these issues so our customers can feel confident about their vehicles and about what they should do. On Jan. 27, Toyota informed GM about its intent to expand its October 2009 floor mat recall to include 2009-10 Vibe models. The Vibe models also are included in a safety recall announced Jan. 21 to correct sticking accelerator pedals. GM has not identified any incidents or customer complaints of sticking accelerator pedals on 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe vehicles. In addition, we have been informed about Toyota’s decision to issue a stop sale order to its dealerships for the affected models. GM also has issued an order to stop sale of the 2009 and 2010 Pontiac Vibe units. We don’t have all of the information that has driven Toyota’s decisions, but we intend to share more information when we can. We will communicate with affected Pontiac Vibe customers when Toyota informs us of its plan to remedy the vehicles included in the recalls so that customers can bring their vehicles to a GM dealership for repair. In the mean time, they can contact their local GM dealer or call 1-800-GM-Drive with any inquiries. vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vance Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 As a GM retiree and on the mailing list here is part of an email I received this week. Toyota Recall Campaign - Impact on Pontiac Vibe GM has received many questions from dealers and customers about the recently announced Toyota recall campaigns for unintended acceleration. Some of the inquiries have asked about the extent to which the Pontiac Vibe, a sister vehicle to the Toyota Matrix, also may be involved. The Vibe was engineered and designed by Toyota and built by New United Motor Manufacturing (NUMMI), a joint venture between Toyota and General Motors. We want to be as open as we can about these issues so our customers can feel confident about their vehicles and about what they should do. On Jan. 27, Toyota informed GM about its intent to expand its October 2009 floor mat recall to include 2009-10 Vibe models. The Vibe models also are included in a safety recall announced Jan. 21 to correct sticking accelerator pedals. GM has not identified any incidents or customer complaints of sticking accelerator pedals on 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe vehicles. In addition, we have been informed about Toyota’s decision to issue a stop sale order to its dealerships for the affected models. GM also has issued an order to stop sale of the 2009 and 2010 Pontiac Vibe units. We don’t have all of the information that has driven Toyota’s decisions, but we intend to share more information when we can. We will communicate with affected Pontiac Vibe customers when Toyota informs us of its plan to remedy the vehicles included in the recalls so that customers can bring their vehicles to a GM dealership for repair. In the mean time, they can contact their local GM dealer or call 1-800-GM-Drive with any inquiries. vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayess Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Geez, what a crappy mail-out. Maybe their knowledge has changed since then, but it sounds like their response is "we don't know, folks -- but until someone drives out of control or Toyota makes the first move..." As a GM retiree and on the mailing list here is part of an email I received this week. Toyota Recall Campaign - Impact on Pontiac Vibe GM has received many questions from dealers and customers about the recently announced Toyota recall campaigns for unintended acceleration. Some of the inquiries have asked about the extent to which the Pontiac Vibe, a sister vehicle to the Toyota Matrix, also may be involved. The Vibe was engineered and designed by Toyota and built by New United Motor Manufacturing (NUMMI), a joint venture between Toyota and General Motors. We want to be as open as we can about these issues so our customers can feel confident about their vehicles and about what they should do. On Jan. 27, Toyota informed GM about its intent to expand its October 2009 floor mat recall to include 2009-10 Vibe models. The Vibe models also are included in a safety recall announced Jan. 21 to correct sticking accelerator pedals. GM has not identified any incidents or customer complaints of sticking accelerator pedals on 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe vehicles. In addition, we have been informed about Toyota’s decision to issue a stop sale order to its dealerships for the affected models. GM also has issued an order to stop sale of the 2009 and 2010 Pontiac Vibe units. We don’t have all of the information that has driven Toyota’s decisions, but we intend to share more information when we can. We will communicate with affected Pontiac Vibe customers when Toyota informs us of its plan to remedy the vehicles included in the recalls so that customers can bring their vehicles to a GM dealership for repair. In the mean time, they can contact their local GM dealer or call 1-800-GM-Drive with any inquiries. vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT8 smoker craft Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 How many reports has GM taken about sticky pedals? And it's not just a physical issue, it's also a software issue within the ECU itself... If there was a reason to recall, GM would issue one. Were did you here this there have been some speculation about a ECU problems but I haven't seen anything other then speculation. the fix is adding a postage stamp size weight to counter act the interfearance on the bushing that causes the sticking, takes 10 minutes to install. if it was just ECU issues they would just flash it and be done with it. GM should be taking it upon themselves to fix there vehicles to save the problems, since they are aware of it. if someone was to get hurt in the mean time it would be devastating for their public image not to mention the affect on anyone involved in a accident or fatality hopefully no one else gets hurt as a result of this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Were did you here this there have been some speculation about a ECU problems but I haven't seen anything other then speculation. the fix is adding a postage stamp size weight to counter act the interfearance on the bushing that causes the sticking, takes 10 minutes to install. if it was just ECU issues they would just flash it and be done with it. GM should be taking it upon themselves to fix there vehicles to save the problems, since they are aware of it. if someone was to get hurt in the mean time it would be devastating for their public image not to mention the affect on anyone involved in a accident or fatality hopefully no one else gets hurt as a result of this mess. That have been many report of cars going WOT without any kind of throttle input. To me that screams software. This is the hardware portion of the fix.. btw these cars are DBW.. Personally I think this pedal replacement is a piss poor attempt to bandaid some crappy engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Shim a spring.... seriously!! I thought you only did that to raise the oil pressure in a lycoming ! lol Have a local guy my son works with.. his car takes off on it's own when on cruise control ! It's not a pedal issue.. it's software. you guys in the shop... are you just installing the spring shim.. or are you plugging in while you're down there and flashing software that the client isn't being told about??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnimon Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Quick question Where is throttle position sensor located on these vehicles?Is it in the ecu or attached to the fuel pedal? I have come across this with trucks that I have worked on, but the sensor is attached to the fuel pedal.Most complaints were irregular or no acceleration or even once wot.All deisels mind you. A similar pedal problem occured recently blocks away from my neck of the woods.I dont know the full details,but Im sure it was one of the first fatalities.Husband runs over his wife in his driveway,if im correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT8 smoker craft Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 That have been many report of cars going WOT without any kind of throttle input. To me that screams software. This is the hardware portion of the fix.. btw these cars are DBW.. Personally I think this pedal replacement is a piss poor attempt to bandaid some crappy engineering. I'm not 100% sure this shim thing will fix the problem either . I am sure that the guys/gals they have working on this have a LOT more engineering know how than anyone that has shared their opinion about this, and that they wouldn't waste the time on a "banbaid fix" they realize what they have riding on this they can't afford for this to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I am sure that the guys/gals they have working on this have a LOT more engineering know how than anyone that has shared their opinion about this, and that they wouldn't waste the time on a "banbaid fix" they realize what they have riding on this they can't afford for this to fail. With 25 years experience, as the owner of a high precision injection moulding company.. making parts for the auto industry... I wouldn't be too certain about either of those statements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 So putting more tension on a spring is going to help with a friction problem. I believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT8 smoker craft Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 With 25 years experience, as the owner of a high precision injection moulding company.. making parts for the auto industry... I wouldn't be too certain about either of those statements! No offence but I'm quite sure of my statements. Comparing a independantly owned injection moulding place to the largest auto manufacturer in the world is a bit far fetched. I'm sure your a very smart individual but to say you know more than toyotas top engineers is kinda like me as a floor employee telling the president how to run the company it doesn't really matter what you or I think. the engineers in japan are crazy smart and I'm sure they are the ones on this and again not questioning your know how I'm just saying these guys are in another league , they are not the ones who designed the pedal as I'm sure that's coming next LOL I also have 12 years in the automotive industry in several different capasities and no one has dealt with a situation like this so I am certain they have their top engineers on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taper Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I agree Wayne, there have been two or three guys on the news stating that their car accelerates when the cruise is engaged and the floor mat has been removed, so I think they have a deeper issue or maybe a third issue. As for the original post, you can be sure Toyota will try to deal with their own branded products and a vehicle branded under another manufacturers label will be slightly less of an priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) No offence but I'm quite sure of my statements. Comparing a independantly owned injection moulding place to the largest auto manufacturer in the world is a bit far fetched. I'm sure your a very smart individual but to say you know more than toyotas top engineers is kinda like me as a floor employee telling the president how to run the company it doesn't really matter what you or I think. the engineers in japan are crazy smart and I'm sure they are the ones on this and again not questioning your know how I'm just saying these guys are in another league , they are not the ones who designed the pedal as I'm sure that's coming next LOL I also have 12 years in the automotive industry in several different capasities and no one has dealt with a situation like this so I am certain they have their top engineers on it I wasn't actually comparing companies... but I bet our 100 or so employees have a better quality output than the masses at Toyota, considering our main work over the years was specializing in internal seat belt locking mechanisms and you don't get a second chance on that product line! What I was trying to convey, as an Electro-mechanical Engineer.... is what I've seen over the last 25 years (sitting in numerous end user and tier one "witch hunt" meetings).. watching issues being swept under carpets by ALL the big boys (GM, Chrysler, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Magna, etc.) that we've done business with directly and through tier one suppliers like TRW, Bendix, Window Motion, Etcha..etc.. . Watching issue resolution ideas from tier one and tier two suppliers that the big boys chose to ignore the advise on, because they were "smarter" and in charge, only to watch it backfire and have them come back to us asking "what was that idea again". I can see that happening with the gas pedal. Some poor Toyota engineering team is under the gun.... 4 millon vehicles.. boss screaming we need a FAST.. CHEAP fix for this RIGHT NOW.. to show that we are doing something about it (to avoid the class action litigation that is growing in numbers). They have "ear muffs" on to any outside suggestions on a fix right now and to what is really happening, because they are so tied up in finding a quick fix they aren't thinking outside the box. I've seen it way too many times in person.. that I want to remember...and truly don't miss those suit and tie affairs at someone elses board room table! (We pay someone to take that s and abuse these days! lol ) I really hope I'm wrong.. but give it a few months to play thru.. and I bet the little square of aluminum under the return spring isn't the final fix ! Edited February 6, 2010 by irishfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vance Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I talked to GM exec who is a friend of mine and he has been in several meetings this week about the Vibe and he is REALLY pissed off because Toyota will NOT tell GM anything about the problem.Even though the matrix and vibe are sister cars I am willing to say that they DON'T have the same control modules because of different option packages. vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I talked to GM exec who is a friend of mine and he has been in several meetings this week about the Vibe and he is REALLY pissed off because Toyota will NOT tell GM anything about the problem.Even though the matrix and vibe are sister cars I am willing to say that they DON'T have the same control modules because of different option packages. vance Of course Toyota won't, they don't know what the problem is either. Sounds like some crazy open loop software glitch.. Hopefully they get it figured out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishforfun Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Honestly I'm shocked at this shim fix, I've been building automotive tooling for over 30yrs and Wayne is bang on! This is a quick fix not an acceptable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 As I mentioned early.. my son's buddies car runs away when on cruise control. He wrote Toyota a letter suggesting to them that there was a software issue. They wrote him back a snotty letter asking him whom he thought he was that he could suggest it was a software issue. The joke on that is he is an honour graduate as a software engineer, with a masters to boot.. pun intended! I'm trying to get a copy of the letter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vance Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 The shim is not a quick fix it is just an attempt to show the U.S. NHTASA that they are doing something-to bad it won't work. vance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish1965 Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Hey maybe the can do a study on the myriad of issues my Caravan has, too. Like bad sway bars, cold weather steering pump failure, low speed steering shudder, cold weather transmission slip, sticky throttle body, untraceable power window failure (lets just keep replacing parts till it works again), rapid rear brake seizure, etc. Of course there are TSB's out for all this yet the dealer has never heard of such issues when I bring the car in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinnerdoc Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 speaking of the caravan my buddy's dad is a garage shop manager, and he told my buddy the caravan help put food on their table for quite a while ....it is his favorite vehicle bec it comes in the garage so often, tis was a whie ago though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west lake charlie Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 What no comments on Ford Using the same part???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 That's the issue.. why no problems there.. which again leads to software issues for Toyota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT8 smoker craft Posted February 6, 2010 Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 Ford recalled 220000 vans over seas with more to come from the news report I saw they are just trying to keep the focus on toyota and let it go unnoticed because they are commercial vehicles that were recalled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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