Hiring two Conservation Officers

[Fishnwire]

Have you guys read the Job Spec?

 

That $62,000.00 salary is because of:

 

"*Indicates the salary listed as per the OPSEU Collective Agreement."

 

Do the COs belong to a union?

 

No wonder Ontario cannot afford to hire a larger number of COs.

 

carp-starter

 

 

Since the beginning of this thread, I was wondering how long it would take before someone pointed that out. Now that everyone knows that those high starting salaries were fought for and won by a union, I wonder if so many people will be so eager to defend them.

[Terry]

I would think that most people know that most if not all government professional jobs are unionized ..so no surprise here

 

and I don't care about the amount paid as much as comparing it to other jobs

 

IMHO cops/ COs should be paid more then trades persons and teachers and autoworkers

but that is MO

Edited December 13, 2009 by Terry

[Fishnwire]

IMHO cops/ COs should be paid more then trades persons and teachers and autoworkers

but that is MO

 

 

Good, because cops already do make more than teachers, autoworkers and most tradesmen.

[Terry]

then all is right with the world

[walleyejigger]

little bit off topic, but as an outdoors lover, this sort of job never would have appealed to me, i would think all of the times i look forward to throughout the year you'd have to work, (openers for certain fish species.....long weekends...... hunting openers..................weekends) i as well as most enthusiasts look forward to these times in the year, and it is then that i usually see CO's in the field,

 

ps, i think everyone should make 65k a year

[ch312]

An experienced CO with a few years on the job would certainly deserve $65k or more a year. I just think that's a little high for people entering the profession, considering the competetion for those very few openings is quite stiff. Having to travel is part of a lot of professions, and in the case of CO's it doesn't result in a shortage of applicants.

 

As far as my profession goes, you are wrong to assume that the are "many people in my field who would take [my] job for less pay". Industrial electricians with experience in high-voltage construction and maintainence are in relatively high demand with respect to their availability and as such are able to command salaries in the range that I do. No one who is not dangerously unqualified to do so would take my job for half of what I make. They don't have to.

 

The fact is that my argument about there being no shortage of people willing and able to fill entry level positions as COs is far from ridiculous...its a simple truth. I knew lots of guys who seriously looked into entering that profession in high school. Two of them even went to Sault College for whatever 3 year program it is that is geared to doing so alongside a hundred or more other students. Even with the proper schooling the chance of landing a full time job as a CO in Ontario is about as good as winning the lottery. All I am saying is that a high paying starting salary is not required to attract applicants. I'm not advocating doing so, but they could make it a one year unpaid internship, and still fill every opening position.

 

 

ah, i just noticed you're a union guy. i wont even bother trying to discuss how much money people should be making and how many would do the work for less pay

 

do you have some links or sources to backup your claims?

[bushart]

Well Anybody believing that these positions will be going to a fresh out of college kid who still recovering from their last frat party is outta touch.

 

There are individuals who are more than likely "In House" who have been part of the CO process for some time who will advance to this level.

 

This public posting will be made for a few reasons...Politically correct.....written in contract to do so....possibility of Super CO being brought in from other areas.

 

A reason (I would prefer) they hire a seasoned person is they come with life experiences and common sense (works for cops too)

 

Yes they go by the book but realize not all situations are created equal and can make sound judgements accordingly.

 

RE: Dream Job--------Forget It----the only thing that may give you your fishing/hunting fix is that you'll be posted possibly in remote areas (Hope your spouse is on board for Pickle Lake)

 

Yeah my buddy is a CO---seems happy---not for me though

 

Finally I cannot believe this thread went to $$$$$----65 g's is modest in todays society---especially for this job--if you believe this is about driving a boat around on a nice summers' day checkin licences---one really needs a reality check.

 

Bushart

[kickingfrog]

Ah, no mention of a yearly salary, just an hourly wage. No mention of 40 hours a week, or 52 weeks a year either.

 

More folks getting mad about crap that may not exists, worry about facts and things you can change.

[Fishnwire]

ah, i just noticed you're a union guy. i wont even bother trying to discuss how much money people should be making and how many would do the work for less pay

 

do you have some links or sources to backup your claims?

 

 

 

I'm sure a lot of guys would like to try doing my job for less pay, but most of them would kill themselves or somebody else before morning coffee break, because they're not licenced industrial electricians, and don't know the first thing about the trade. The ones that are licenced know their value and are not about to accept a job for half of what they normally make, obviously. There are probably some employers who wouldn't mind taking a chance with an unlicenced guy to save a few bucks, but there are laws against doing so.

 

As far sources to back up what I'm saying goes...go ask any holder of a red-seal interprovincial industrial electrician's licence (union or not) to see his T-4. Looking at mine is all the proof I need, but I know lots of guys who work in a variety of environments for a number of companies and they'll all tell you the same story.

 

All that said, I didn't make $33 an hour when I was an apprentice entering the profession with nothing more than trade school and no real-world skills. I don't think anyone who is in the same position is worth that kind of money. Since we have no way of knowing for sure what kind of candidate they are expecting to and will eventually hire, I'm just stating that I think that offer is high if it is in fact an entry-level position.

 

I'm not dumb enough to think that the job entails nothing more that "riding around in boats and sleds"...but I have a feeling it involves more riding around in boats and sled than most of our jobs do. All jobs are work. Anyone who can't think of some place they'd rather be than at work needs to have their head examined for the mind-control chip their boss had implanted. However, I think a lot people would agree, including CO's, that the job as a whole is probably better than most, and those that hold it are particularily thankful that they are not doing something else. The experienced ones deserve ever cent the earn and probably more, but for the last time (I'm pretty sure this makes 7) $65K is a higher figure than necessary to attact qualified, eager applicants if these are entry level positions. That's my opinion and maybe I'm dead wrong, but I haven't read anything on this thread to convince my otherwise.

[ch312]

As far sources to back up what I'm saying goes...

 

i was referring to your claims that there is no shortage of people who would take this position, there is stiff competition, and they could likely fill the position if there was no pay for the first year.

 

The ones that are licenced know their value and are not about to accept a job for half of what they normally make, obviously

 

this is why i refuse to ever join a union. fear that ill turn into a typical union worker that thinks they are entitled to more money and will typically refuse to work for less.

 

 

The experienced ones deserve ever cent the earn and probably more, but for the last time (I'm pretty sure this makes 7) $65K is a higher figure than necessary to attact qualified, eager applicants if these are entry level positions. That's my opinion and maybe I'm dead wrong, but I haven't read anything on this thread to convince my otherwise.

 

you have apparently stated that 7 times, but failed to read the qualifications. this does not appear to be an entry level position to me or most others in this thread. notice in the first sentence it says EXPERIENCE? they are looking for experienced individuals with everything they listed before that little ; symbol. how is an entry level candidate suppose to have experience with enforcement, investigations, laying charges, testifying, preparing search warrants, etc?

 

if this doesnt convince you, nothing will get it into your head that this isnt an entry level position and they are looking for experienced individuals who deserve to make more than the new guys.

 

Qualifications:knowledge of and experience in natural resource and public safety-related legislation, enforcement, investigative techniques, rules of evidence, laying charges, testifying in court, preparing Crown briefs and applications for search warrants, and court procedures; knowledge of natural resource management principles in the areas of commercial/sport fisheries, game/non-game species of wildlife and forestry; communication and presentation skills; interpersonal skills in negotiating and participating in conflict resolution; organizational, analytical, planning, investigative and intelligence gathering skills; ability to work independently; computer skills; proficiency in operating and maintaining water craft, snowmobiles and ATV`s; ability to fly and work in small aircraft; ability to qualify and be appointed as a Conservation Officer; ability to complete use of force training and firearms certification; standard first aid certificate, pleasure craft operators card; Canadian firearms safety course certificate, Ontario hunting licence; valid driver`s licence to conduct field work. CPIC

Edited December 14, 2009 by ch312

[Fishnwire]

i was referring to your claims that there is no shortage of people who would take this position, there is stiff competition, and they could likely fill the position if there was no pay for the first year.

 

Like I mentioned before. I looked into entering the profession myself and I know two guys who got the schooling and attempted to do so themselves. There is (or at least was at that time) a lot of competetion and few openings. Next time you see a CO go tell him your son wants to be one and ask him what his chances are and if he should count on that carrer path.

 

 

this is why i refuse to ever join a union. fear that ill turn into a typical union worker that thinks they are entitled to more money and will typically refuse to work for less.

 

As I clearly mentioned, that refers to any licenced electrician, whether they belong to a union or not. I mentioned the word "licence" in the paragraph you quote from, I never said "union", so I'm not sure why you went there. Pick up a phone book and call local licenced residential electricians and ask them their rate. You'll find that it doesn't vary too much. It's about the market value of their skills. They're "entitled" to that rate not because they do or don't belong to a union, but because that's what they're worth.

 

you have apparently stated that 7 times, but failed to read the qualifications. this does not appear to be an entry level position to me or most others in this thread. notice in the first sentence it says EXPERIENCE? they are looking for experienced individuals with everything they listed before that little ; symbol. how is an entry level candidate suppose to have experience with enforcement, investigations, laying charges, testifying, preparing search warrants, etc?

 

 

 

if this doesnt convince you, nothing will get it into your head that this isnt an entry level position and they are looking for experienced individuals who deserve to make more than the new guys.

 

Qualifications:knowledge of and experience in natural resource and public safety-related legislation, enforcement, investigative techniques, rules of evidence, laying charges, testifying in court, preparing Crown briefs and applications for search warrants, and court procedures; knowledge of natural resource management principles in the areas of commercial/sport fisheries, game/non-game species of wildlife and forestry; communication and presentation skills; interpersonal skills in negotiating and participating in conflict resolution; organizational, analytical, planning, investigative and intelligence gathering skills; ability to work independently; computer skills; proficiency in operating and maintaining water craft, snowmobiles and ATV`s; ability to fly and work in small aircraft; ability to qualify and be appointed as a Conservation Officer; ability to complete use of force training and firearms certification; standard first aid certificate, pleasure craft operators card; Canadian firearms safety course certificate, Ontario hunting licence; valid driver`s licence to conduct field work. CPIC

 

 

I did underline "If this is an entry level position". The word you need to focus on is "if" It means "in the event of" or "supposing that". It could very well not be such a position, I'm not saying I'm sure it is...but IF it is...that's how I feel. If you want to argue that entry level positions should receive such compensation, then we have something to talk about. Otherwise, you're beating an extremely dead horse or trying to pick a fight where there isn't one.

 

Not that it matters at this point, but I have read the qualifications and I have a feeling a graduate of a recognized post-secondary Fish and Wildlife management program who had completed a relatively short co-op placement with the ministry or simular agency as part of his course of study might very well qualify, and he or she would still be considered entry level.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Fishnwire

[John the Fisherman]

Having previously worked within MNR Fire for 13 seasons I have seen a couple co- workers become C.O's. As well as retired C.O's who started out within Fire. MNR will look inside itself for hirees initially. The best candidates are those who went to a college for natural resource field. Fish & Wildlife, Forestry, Parks. Those with fire experience on a resume have just met all the travel requirements and working in inclimate weather part. When I was a crewleader I had to be taught fire investigation techniques along with C.O's for the purpose of court cases should a individual be charged. I was on the prosecution side. Computers and forms is where I would be after getting back from a fire. Using my notes and fire diary for the final report were included into the file.

I too would like to see more enforcement for the land. I am not saying the applicants have to be from fire, but it certainly helps get you the interview. Interviews are done more on a point scale these days, so it is the individual with the most points at the end of the competition who has the first opportunity to take the job. I have worked with many C.O's while with MNR. Enforcement and Fire are probably the only ministries with a common history because we did'nt get crap from OPSEU. Ha.

 

I am no longer in the public sector with MNR, but always thought about throwing my hat in at one time, but something else came along that suits me fine today.

 

 

JTF