laszlo Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 its kinda funny now in retrospect...the river was literally on fire last week ...saturday slowed a bit as the water cleared ....Sunday ( when Laz came up) the water was even clearer...but still pleanty of fish ...i went 0 for two in the bow sector but did land a chrome salmon ( weird year)... Laz ....next ttime ill take you elsewhere sooner if the bite isnt hot right away...was good to meet you ...maybe the water temp was off or something ... would you concur ? Nice meeting you as well Dave. Thanks for all the info and help with the set up. Your patience was really appreciated. I'm not sure what was off exactly. I know my floats were way too small and light. The current was making it sink and tilt on weird angles all day. I'm going to get some longer, heavier ones for bigger, faster water. I've never fished rapids that intense before so it was kind of new to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Incredible important tool for steelheading is a thermometer. When the water is cold fish mid to tailout but if the temp of the water climbs even a little fish the whole pool even run water. Ive had days in december that water was 33 degrees first thing and temps climbed a degree and half and boom lots of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chandru Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 hey man just don't give up when i first started fishing i went 2 years only catching sunfish, sometimes not even! only in my 3rd year did things really pick up along with increase in knowledge the right conditions and the right gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laszlo Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 hey man just don't give up when i first started fishing i went 2 years only catching sunfish, sometimes not even! only in my 3rd year did things really pick up along with increase in knowledge the right conditions and the right gear! It's not fishing I'm having trouble with. Pike, Bass, Walleye, Resident Trout = NO PROBLEMS! Steelheading is an entire different situation. No worries though. I'll put in the time which will eventually pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 In fast water you'll want to upsize your float and bulk shot... The key is to get it down quickly and keep it there.. Running small floats is a waste of time in those conditions. I've made that mistake on way to many occasions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneFly Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Unless that fast water is the only hole out of many on the stretch you are fishing,...you can also adjust how you drift, keep your line tight and rely on the 'feel' of the hit. In my experience the Big fish dont sit in the middle of the rapid,..is the mid to smaller ones,..especially at this time of year when the water is cold enough to hold the O2. Once you have rigged heavier, it is difficult to downsize for the next pool without retying. I would suggest just adding a couple micro's to the leader in rapid section, move your float up. when you are done with it,...you can either retie your leader only or slide the micros up to the swivel and slide you float back down. Make sure when you cast that your bait lands directly down stream from you float. this is always important, but utmost in fast water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Buy a pair of decent pliers to remove the shot if you need to downsize... I can fish the 'Geen one day, then the Notty and not have to re-rig. I hate re-rigging, so I do whatever I can to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneFly Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Buy a pair of decent pliers to remove the shot if you need to downsize... I can fish the 'Geen one day, then the Notty and not have to re-rig. I hate re-rigging, so I do whatever I can to avoid it. I personally re-rig every outing and well even more for those slingshot mishaps with trees above, lol. those little nics in your main line from sticks, rocks and any number of things can cause you to lose fish,..removing the shot will for sure weaken your line. I also like to get 20 ft or so of water soaked line off every time I re-rig. just a preference that i find works for me. In fact with regards to the leader, the fish I lost Sunday in wood was on a leader I had already battled a smaller fish plus on bird nested once. Last way I want to see my rig is not top notch is on a big fish lost when it could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laszlo Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I personally re-rig every outing and well even more for those slingshot mishaps with trees above, lol. those little nics in your main line from sticks, rocks and any number of things can cause you to lose fish,..removing the shot will for sure weaken your line. I also like to get 20 ft or so of water soaked line off every time I re-rig. just a preference that i find works for me. In fact with regards to the leader, the fish I lost Sunday in wood was on a leader I had already battled a smaller fish plus on bird nested once. Last way I want to see my rig is not top notch is on a big fish lost when it could have been. I'm glad you guys brought this up. I've been using the Raven pack of multi size split shots. I realize once they're pinched you can't remove them. Scenario: Fishing 9 feet of fast moving water and bulk shotting my rig. Then I decide to move slightly down river where the water changes to 5 feet and slowing down a bit. Question: Do I have to re-rig everything for the change in conditions??? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJL Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm glad you guys brought this up. I've been using the Raven pack of multi size split shots. I realize once they're pinched you can't remove them. Scenario: Fishing 9 feet of fast moving water and bulk shotting my rig. Then I decide to move slightly down river where the water changes to 5 feet and slowing down a bit. Question: Do I have to re-rig everything for the change in conditions??? Thanks I use the split shots called "Sure Shot" (Got them on sale in bulk for cheap)...I normally just slide the shots up and down the mainline to get whatever shotting pattern I need (I might switch floats and add more shots if need be). If my shots are rigged evenly spaced between the leader and the float and I need to get down fast to fish faster water, I just slide them down and clump a bunch together just above the leader (I do put a few small shots on my leader though which most people don't)...Not sure how hard the Raven shots are but some shots do fray and crimp the line as you slide them up and down (always check for line damage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmeh Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) Question: Do I have to re-rig everything for the change in conditions??? Thanks I use the same shots, I just don't pinch them on overly tight, that way I can move them around to avoid re-rigging if possible. Sometimes however if you're changing from very different conditions you'll have no choice but to re-rig. As MJL mentioned if you're moving shots around make sure to check your line for frays every now and then. Edited November 10, 2009 by timmeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneFly Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Just position the shots so you can move your float as low as 5' from your hook,...then you can move it as high as you want. moving the shot around by sliding it helps for some drifts, but no you shouldnt have to re-rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laszlo Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I guess I'm pinching my shots way too tight. Once I pinched them there was no way they would move. I was also looking at the shot patterns Bill linked on here earlier and it seems I was using a pattern for slower moving water in 9 feet of insane rapids. Looking forward to another attempt and hoping this info hooks me my first fish. Stay tuned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I guess I'm pinching my shots way too tight. Once I pinched them there was no way they would move.I was also looking at the shot patterns Bill linked on here earlier and it seems I was using a pattern for slower moving water in 9 feet of insane rapids. Looking forward to another attempt and hoping this info hooks me my first fish. Stay tuned... 9ft of insane rapids? lol You'll want a monster float (11-14g) and a lot of shot right above your tippet (Even some dust shot on your leader never hurt) The thing is, you don't want to fish IN the fast water, you want to fish the seam right besides it.. And like Stonefly said earlier, fishing this type of water is a bit tricky.. You'll feel the hits before you actually see the float go down. You need to make sure you are trotting (keeping the line a bit taught as the float goes downstream) and pay attention. Any time the float bobbles, or does somethig funky, set the hook.. These hits are extremely easy to miss. I had a hell of a day a few weeks ago fishing similar water.. After a few tips from a buddy the next time out, nailed a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyb Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Great thread...it's fun reliving the learning curve through your post laszlo...you're well on your way to success. The Internet is an amazing tool for anglers isn't it? I learned by watching successful guys, being patient, practicing and experimenting and asking a LOT of questions to whoever would talk to me on the water Good luck this weekend...it's can only get better bud and remember etiquette first, fish second Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJL Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I guess I'm pinching my shots way too tight. Once I pinched them there was no way they would move.I was also looking at the shot patterns Bill linked on here earlier and it seems I was using a pattern for slower moving water in 9 feet of insane rapids. Looking forward to another attempt and hoping this info hooks me my first fish. Stay tuned... You could always try bottom bouncing the fast water provided it isn't too snaggy – I like doing this. I do quite well fishing artificials like plastic minnows, plastic worms, plastic eggs, sponge eggs, yarn flies, bigger flies with stiff hackles, etc. You can also try what Bill mentioned…Big floats (11gr to ?) and use a ton of lead (split shots, slinkies, pencil lead, bass worm weights, etc) to get down to the bottom. When I fish the Niagara (fairly fast water and deep in a lot of places), I carry an assortment of floats (mostly slip floats) ranging in size from 11gr to 28gr (I think). This spring when I was down there, I set my float to 25-30ft and launched it in the middle of no where in the really fast stuff and got into a few fish – Really made me rethink about the way I cover water. Really liking the big blackbird balsa slip-floats and the Raven slip floats for big fast water - I destroyed way too many Drennans . For size reference, the 2 floats on the left are what I normally use for small/med sized Lake O tribs...The other floats with a stack of shots on them are for the Niagara and pier fishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave524 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I learned a lot from watching the fish as to where to fish in a run. Get a set of polaroids and a good vantage point like a bridge or a high bank above a hole where you can look down and see the fish, watch them. You will see patterns of movement and resting places. Get to know a couple of stretches of a few rivers well under different conditions. Once you have got their holding patterns down you can apply it to unfamiliar waters. Take a break and sit close to some one who is obviously successful and watch, like I tell my daughter " if you see some one who is more successful than you it is probably because he/she is doing something your not " Think you got the basics of rigging down, it's in the application now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Someone should draw up some sample rigs in MSPAINT or photoshop I'm having trouble following the correct way to put the float/sinkers on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Someone should draw up some sample rigs in MSPAINT or photoshop I'm having trouble following the correct way to put the float/sinkers on. Did you check out the link that was posted earlier on in this thread with all the shot patterns? Sure, it's not ALL the shot patterns, but it gives you a pretty good idea what to use in what situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laszlo Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Tied my own roe bags for the first time this evening and am heading out to give them a shot tomorrow. For some reason I have a good feeling. Going to hit a river with a little slower water with the right floats and what I think are the right shot patterns. Report to follow... Edited November 11, 2009 by laszlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 good luck laz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laszlo Posted November 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Sorry guys. I wish I had good news but I got SKUNKED today. Moral is slightly low but still lots of fight left in me. Others on the river were having a tuff day. Clear low water played a factor. Did solve the float issue though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneFly Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Weird, that spot is usually hopin by now, did you go where you told me (dont post it here). If So, did you walk the stretch or just fish by where you parked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmeh Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Keep at it man, only a matter of time now. You're putting time in and it will pay off. You're getting a lot of good info here, it should really help you out. I wish I had done something like this a couple years ago, it would have really helped get me started. You're going to learn in 2 weeks what it took me 2 years to learn, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Keep it up man! Make sure you take notes on the conditions and the flow rates. If it was a bit gin today, fish it with a bit more flow next time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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