NF: Health Care in the US

[DonC]

Minnow

 

 

 

Group: Members

Posts: 33

Joined: 21-May 07

From: Tennessee

Member No.: 1,776

 

 

Buried at the end of a long thread on the Canadian Health Care System is my post. For those who do not want to read the prior 38 posts.

 

I work in an ER in the US. I will relate our situation, an anecdote and an opinion.

 

We see 85,000 patients per year. 90%-95% of those patients are in a room within 30-45 minutes ready to be seen. 90% of the patients are seen within one hour by a doctor or physician assistant after checking in at the front desk, and around 75% of patients are seen within 30-45 minutes after checking in. Many ER's are not so timely. We run around 3.5-4 hours on average to be admitted to the hospital and 2.5-3 hours to be discharged home after signing in to the ER. 15% of our volume have no insurance. 28% have Medicaid and 32% have Medicare. 26% have commercial insurance.

 

My hospital, as many others, have programs for patients with limited means and no insurance. If you make less than $13,000 per year for a single person, you have no bill whatsoever from the doctors in the ER and any hospital based doctors, and no hospital bill. If you are single and make less than $18,000, you get a 60% discount. If you have 2 children, a spouse and make less than $40,000, you get a 40+% discount.

 

Within the past 2-3 years there have been successful lawsuits against multiple hospitals that gave 50% or so discounts to commercial insurance plans and none to uninsured patients. If we can give up to 55% discounts to insurance plans, and up to 70% discounts to Medicaid (government requires the discounts), then it is fine to give discounts to uninsured.

 

No one is turned away from the ER. On occasion they may have difficulty finding a doctor to follow them up. Usually everyone is taken care of with infrequent exceptions after they leave the ER. Office based doctors give a portion of their care away free. If a patient needs admission, we have a call list if they have no doctor, without regard to financial status. All care is given regardless of financial status in my ER and hospital. We do not delay care to check on insurance status. To do so is illegal.

 

We have a utilization problem in the US. Over and under-utilization. Patients almost always have no financial stake in their care. We have an aging population, with increased technology and patient expectations, an ever increasing medical liability situation driving unnecessary testing and admissions. If patients had a medical savings account, paid by government out of existing funds, or through some tax incentive, then the patient would be more involved in the cost of evaluation and treatment. They would have an financial incentive to not have unnecessary testing and utilization. We can not afford the cost in the future without proper utilization. We need legal relief from the malpractive connundrum.

 

An anecdote: The owner of the lodge in Ontario we go to each year has a home in a town of around 50,000 or so in Florida for the winter. She had a heart attack 2 years ago in Florida. 35 minutes after the chest pain started at home, she was in the cardiac cath lab at the local hospital getting the coronary blockage opened up and had virtually no damage to her heart. Not many places in the world would that occur so promptly. They have a policy that covered the cost. They are Canadian citizens.

 

Socialized medicine, which at my ER represent 60% of our volume, is great for those on it. The doctors have a 10.6% cut coming next month unless reversed by Congress. If that happens, and the future cuts in the coming years occurs, then they will have trouble finding doctors. They will still receive care in the ER. Our government health programs are going broke in the coming years. We get paid around 33% of what we charge in the ER. I am OK with that, but not with a 25% projected further cut in reimbursement in the next 5 years. Either patients are going to need an incentive to utilize the program correctly, or the medical system, nurses, doctors and midlevel providers with take a cut in reimbursement. Many doctors in offices do not break even on Medicaid patients due to paperwork and other costs, with the low reimbursement, which is sometimes around 10% of what they charge.

 

I estimate that 25% of what we do is defensive medicine. If we had the relief from medical malpractice that Canadians doctors have, then we could save some significant money. That will never happen. The trial lawyers have the democratic party in their back pocket. We have had some legislative relief here and there, but not to the extent really needed to change the situation.

 

To summarize: The US health care system is very consumer oriented. We need changes to improve utilization and relief from having to practice defensively.

 

Don

 

PS: I have 3 brothers who choose to not have health insurance. That is their freedom of choice, and to live with its consequences. We lose our individual freedoms for the mantra of Societal Greater Good.

[Moosebunk]

Thanks for the post and it's effort Don.

 

I don't get much time for following US healthcare concerns as Canadian concerns are what I live with. Reading this brief overview was quite interesting.

[ehg]

Thanks for your summary of the U.S. health care system DonC.

Your post was a quick education from a health professional in the U.S which answered a lot of questions i had.

Thanks for post doesn't sound so bad down there.

ehg

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I have heard conflicting stories and I speak with many Americans.

 

Now rather than me bringing up all the ugly stuff that happens both in America and Canada.Medicare Insurance has gone through the roof and still rising. And many people cannot afford it any longer.

 

Just wondering. What are the costs to have a child(medical bills) if you don't have insurance in the USA?

 

I heard a story of a couple that were well off. Had a child. There were complications. The child died and the parents on top were left with a huge bill that left them bankrupt and broke......

Edited June 22, 2008 by Johnny Bass

[bbog]

I have been sitting on the sidelines during the two threads with respect to medical treatment in Canada and the US. Speaking from personal experience the service I received in the US (relating to a scuba diving accident) was second to none. The treatment was expedient and under the care of world reknowned experts (Duke University and DAN).

 

At no time was treatment delayed to check for ability to pay. The most important concern was getting back to health. Sure a bill came later and had to be paid - but if I had the option where to get sick - well lets just say that the usual wait times in Canada may have been fatal.

 

The medical system in Canada (or rather the abuse it takes) needs to be fixed NOW!

 

And one other thing. When my beloved Fraser (a Golden Retriever) was sick recently - there was not a single test that I couldn't get in a moments notice. Of course the bill for these tests would be mine alone but in a country as rich as Canada - we need to find a way to provide our people with this immediate access to health care.

 

Back to the sidelines.

[DonC]

Johnny Bass,

 

I am not an OB/GYN. I would guess that the costs would be in the tens of thousands potentially. Most hospitals eventually write off what they can not collect. My brother-in-law had around $30,000 written off. He was diabetic on dialysis in his early 50's. Passed away at age 52.

 

My brothers who choose to not pay for insurance take the risk. There are some in the US with medical conditions that are not insurable.

 

Medicare and Medicaid are going broke. We have a tremendous system for prompt patient care. How long can we afford it with over-utilization and the defensive medicine we are forced to practice remains to be seen.

 

I have not seen anything the looks to be passible by the government to deal with situation given current politics, and do not have much faith in a universal health system, though Canadians seem pleased frequently with theirs. We can not afford the current socialized health programs as structured in the future.

 

I support fully the medical care system we have. We need to change the patient's stake in the cost of medicine where they benefit when not over-utilizing the system, and have the relief that Canadian doctors have from malpractice.

 

Don

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Johnny Bass,

 

I am not an OB/GYN. I would guess that the costs would be in the tens of thousands potentially. Most hospitals eventually write off what they can not collect. My brother-in-law had around $30,000 written off. He was diabetic on dialysis in his early 50's. Passed away at age 52.

 

My brothers who choose to not pay for insurance take the risk. There are some in the US with medical conditions that are not insurable.

 

Medicare and Medicaid are going broke. We have a tremendous system for prompt patient care. How long can we afford it with over-utilization and the defensive medicine we are forced to practice remains to be seen.

 

I have not seen anything the looks to be passible by the government to deal with situation given current politics, and do not have much faith in a universal health system, though Canadians seem pleased frequently with theirs. We can not afford the current socialized health programs as structured in the future.

 

I support fully the medical care system we have. We need to change the patient's stake in the cost of medicine where they benefit when not over-utilizing the system, and have the relief that Canadian doctors have from malpractice.

 

Don

 

First of all? Sorry to hear your brother passed away at such a young age.....

 

Second?Basically they take what they can get form you an write the rest off? I can tell you a story that happened in the state regarding this but I wont bother. I don't want to sound like I am bashing the American health care, but in my opinion, it only works for the wealthy....

 

Why are your other brothers taking the risk? because medic care is over priced. If they socialized it, it would bring costs right down.

 

Tell me Don C? Are you in the medical field or are you wealthy? Those seem to be the only people that support your health care.

 

The American health care system caters to the rich. If you have money to burn? That system is the way to go....

 

Not only is it working in Canada, but it is working in Europe also. Have you seen where your health care is ranked in the world? Its no where near number 1 with universal health care systems leading the way.

 

All the people that tout America's health care system are either benefiting from it(profit wise)or have believed the hype.

[Billy Bob]

Johnny Bass,

 

I am not an OB/GYN. I would guess that the costs would be in the tens of thousands potentially. Most hospitals eventually write off what they can not collect. My brother-in-law had around $30,000 written off. He was diabetic on dialysis in his early 50's. Passed away at age 52.

Don

 

I am a little confused. Write off what to who ? ? ? The tax payers make up for lost revenue already as all hospitals at least in NY are subsidized by the state.

 

I believe we do need to get the lawyers out of our health care systems. Doctors are only human and rarely make mistakes. But because of the lawyers we are sent for unneeded blood test several times a year not to mention all the other test. Also our prescriptions are way over priced. It's funny how this administration will accept imported goods of any kind from anywhere in the world but when it comes to importing prescription drugs from Canada at a great savings that where actually in some cases from the US we can't because all a sudden our government is concerned with safety. The pharmaceutical industry is way too powerful for our own good.

 

Many people are fast to put the blame on doctors for high costs but sometimes I wonder how they even break even. A GP is a fading practice and only specialist are making money and both deserve to make a VERY good living considering how much schooling doctors need to get a medical license in this country.

 

Bob

[TennesseeGuy]

Johnny Bass, no disrespect, but I think you might be responding to posts that you're not reading completely.

 

RE: DonC stated that he works in ER and it was his brother-in-law, not his brother who died.

 

Being able to connect horror stories with names and locations would do much to add validity to claims.

[DonC]

I am an emergency physician. 85% of the patients we see have insurance. The 15% that do not have insurance have help in some form, from discounts to total write offs of the bill, at least in the hospitals, unless they are well off.

 

The US system expediently takes care of virtually everyone usually, regardless of financial status. We do not have much waiting unless the specialist can not see a patient in the office if they overly busy, and there may be a few weeks of waiting for nonurgent situations.

 

There are good and bad anecdotes with the Canadian system it seems, and also with the US system. Americans are used to being taken care of in a reasonably quick timeframe, and that usually is the case.

 

We pay more of our GNP for the luxury of our system. I would pick the US system for uniform consistency of excellent care. I can not comment on other systems that are reportably less costly, and leave that to those who live in those systems.

 

Regarding writeoffs, in the state I am in, there is reimbursement for a small portion of the losses. The writeoff is the part of the bill that the patient does not pay.

 

Don

Edited June 23, 2008 by DonC

[OhioFisherman]

Johnnybass that story was widely reported on the news here, it seems that the couples insurance had a 2 million dollar limit or something to that effect, something that a lot of people aren`t aware of or informed of. Medical costs far exceded that.

 

Bankruptcy due to medical bills is reported to be the number one cause here. Pricing for some testing and procedures can vary widely from hospital to hospital and insurance you have. Co-pays also vary widely with different insurance policies.

 

Smaller hospitals in my area frequently transfer patients with severe injuries, illnesses to trauma centers or larger hospitals in Cleveland hospitals (lifeflight), just to insure better care.

 

Some tests that may require a wait in Canada are done more quickly here if ordered, just a population thing, more people here, more equipment and staff available. As an example my MRIs once ordered were scheduled in less than 2 weeks, the last set were started at 8pm, some hospitals may not be able to schedule routine testing that late due to staffing conflicts.

 

My son recently injured his knee, the Orthopedic doctor he saw was a Canadian from Ontario(eh?) probably more money and opportunities on this side of the border? A larger client base?

 

Over the years the insurance benefits from employers has seen shifting to the workers, pretty much a standard thing here back in the 60`& 70`s for employers to offer free medical insurance, hard to find employers offering it now, most have shifted some of the health care burden on the workers.

 

Just from my own experience, bigger hospitals here, with better qualified staff and physicians do a much better job of diagnosing problems.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Johnnybass that story was widely reported on the news here, it seems that the couples insurance had a 2 million dollar limit or something to that effect, something that a lot of people aren`t aware of or informed of. Medical costs far exceded that.

 

Bankruptcy due to medical bills is reported to be the number one cause here. Pricing for some testing and procedures can vary widely from hospital to hospital and insurance you have. Co-pays also vary widely with different insurance policies.

 

Smaller hospitals in my area frequently transfer patients with severe injuries, illnesses to trauma centers or larger hospitals in Cleveland hospitals (lifeflight), just to insure better care.

 

Some tests that may require a wait in Canada are done more quickly here if ordered, just a population thing, more people here, more equipment and staff available. As an example my MRIs once ordered were scheduled in less than 2 weeks, the last set were started at 8pm, some hospitals may not be able to schedule routine testing that late due to staffing conflicts.

 

My son recently injured his knee, the Orthopedic doctor he saw was a Canadian from Ontario(eh?) probably more money and opportunities on this side of the border? A larger client base?

 

Over the years the insurance benefits from employers has seen shifting to the workers, pretty much a standard thing here back in the 60`& 70`s for employers to offer free medical insurance, hard to find employers offering it now, most have shifted some of the health care burden on the workers.

 

Just from my own experience, bigger hospitals here, with better qualified staff and physicians do a much better job of diagnosing problems.

 

Trying to save the child from dying racked up more than $2 million dollars in cost????

 

OK. Lets have a poll here. Who would rather spend tens of thousands of dollars for a visit to the Hospital, or would you rather wait an extra week or two for free? If it is something serious?We are usually given fast service.

 

Yes. Like I have said in the first post. Canadian doctors are being offered big bucks and have been moving to America. Canadian doctors are prized because since we have a universal health care? Our doctors have a lot of experience under their belt.

 

As opposed to Americans, where the good doctors are too expensive for the regular public, and the green doctors/surgeons fresh out of medical school are the ones causing all the malpractice suits...They'd rather get them from Canada with a lot of experience and a good record.

 

I'd say our doctors do a better job at diagnosing, since our doctors(at least in the major cities)see hundreds of people a day. And we have more experienced doctors. America's advantage is they have more of the hardware and the machines available. They also have some very good specialists but they are usually very costly.

 

Just saying, that in my opinion, the universal health care system is better(as is the opinion of those who rank them). And America is benefiting from our universal health care system, by taking our doctors and causing us a shortage in some areas.

 

I'd say most of the Americans on this board are well off or have good coverage, but most Americans I speak with would prefer a universal health care system. And a lot of Americans would be avoiding a lot of financial disasters. Just my opinion.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Johnny Bass

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I am an emergency physician. 85% of the patients we see have insurance. The 15% that do not have insurance have help in some form, from discounts to total write offs of the bill, at least in the hospitals, unless they are well off.

 

The US system expediently takes care of virtually everyone usually, regardless of financial status. We do not have much waiting unless the specialist can not see a patient in the office if they overly busy, and there may be a few weeks of waiting for nonurgent situations.

 

There are good and bad anecdotes with the Canadian system it seems, and also with the US system. Americans are used to being taken care of in a reasonably quick timeframe, and that usually is the case.

 

We pay more of our GNP for the luxury of our system. I would pick the US system for uniform consistency of excellent care. I can not comment on other systems that are reportably less costly, and leave that to those who live in those systems.

 

Regarding writeoffs, in the state I am in, there is reimbursement for a small portion of the losses. The writeoff is the part of the bill that the patient does not pay.

 

Don

 

Basically you are saying that your health care is partly socialized. The middle class are insured(although very costly) The middle class pay threw the nose if they get sick and cant afford insurance. Now what would you say if America made the Insurance mandatory, more people would get it and it would bring the premiums down? The tax payer is paying most of the bill as it is anyways, no?

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Johnny Bass, no disrespect, but I think you might be responding to posts that you're not reading completely.

 

RE: DonC stated that he works in ER and it was his brother-in-law, not his brother who died.

 

Being able to connect horror stories with names and locations would do much to add validity to claims.

 

 

No offence taken. I was pressed for time and sometimes speed read. But more or less, I think I got my point across. And like Ohio said? The incident I spoke of was widely reported in the news.

[fisher]

The US system expediently takes care of virtually everyone usually, regardless of financial status.

 

Don

 

I guess that is the issue - it is the patients that are not taken care of that get the headlines and are at the root of the debates.

 

A Universal Health Care system is the way to go - it is a fundamental right and should be defended at all times. I would hate to see Canada move away from that.

[oncogene]

I like the Canadian system more as opposed to US's.

 

I'd think I'm somewhat unbiased as I'm not born nor raised in Canada

 

 

Let's assume what the OP said about the US system is true.... that it "takes care of virtually everyone usually".... ok. But still... "virtually everyone" is not really EVERYONE-everyone... and "usually" means sometimes it's not even "virtually everyone". It sounds like I'm just picking the words... but really, if just 1% of ppl don't get treated.... that's alot of ppl we'r talking about.

 

And let's say if u do get treated promptly... yet u get a huge medical bill, or ur medical insurance goes up in magnitudes afterward, ur life will be severely affected no doubt. I can't imagine going bankrupt while trying to recover from (or suffering from) any serious disease will be very fun.

 

And if ppl can't pay... the US system just "writes it off"? I duno... but I think it's never easy to get anyone, any companies, anything to write off bills in this world. How far will ppl need to dig be4 the bill will be written off? Use off all the savings, sell off houses, sell off any valuable possessions? What happen to the ppl's credit history after that?

 

In Canada, at least u'r sure everyone will get treated. If you'r rich and don't want to wait, you can always pay out of ur own pocket to get tests done, in Canada or down in US.

 

 

 

BTW, I duno if I'm just lucky or what... but I had a MRI done in April... I only waited for 3 weeks (or maybe less... forgot exactly). And my case definitely wasn't urgent either.

[TennesseeGuy]

oncogene I'll compare my most recent experience with yours.

 

On a Thursday morning in 2005 around 10 a.m. I informed my family doctor that my back was bothering me and I was ready for whatever. I had an MRI at 1 p.m. the same day. At 3 p.m. I received a call at home to pick up my MRI film and deliver it to a surgeon so he could check it and he would see me the next day a little after noon. The next Tuesday I had the first of three lumbar epidural steriod injections. Two days later I traveled 1475 miles to Red Lake for a 7 day fly in where I had my all time greatest fall fishing trip. When the next two epidural injections didn't help we decided on surgery. I stopped taking aspirin and the surgery came 10 days later. It was major surgery on December 29 and I had major complications after the surgery. We went in again on New Year's Eve to stitch up a spinal fluid leak and to remove and replace one of four screws. Major complications after #2 also with double pneumonia putting me in ICU to bring in the new year. Lots of pictures and great care gave me a nine day stay in the hospital. After several follow up visits my cost totaled ZERO. No delays. No problems at all.

 

I won't begin to compare our system with any other because I'm only concerned with what's available for me. Hooray for those who have a good health care system and are satisfied with it.

 

We have great sources of information on this board. Moosebunk and DonC are solid and informative with no reason or need to show bias. They are both professionals and I value their opinions. I'm also open to listening to anybody's personal experience. A few of the posts are pretty weak.

 

I have no ear for medical information gathered from politicians promoting their agenda, TV newsreaders or picture shows. Horror stories on either side of the border mean nothing without names and locations.

[oncogene]

so who exactly paid for all those medical procedures? Your medical insurance, or your company's group insurance? Or do you mean all these would be free as well if it's someone that had no insurance?

 

I think no one here doubt the efficient of the US medical system.... for the rich and/or insured ppl. It's what would potentially happen for ppl that dont' get accepted by insurance becoz of their conditions/illness and ppl who downright can't afford insurance.

 

 

And what's ur back problem btw? That sounded bad...

Edited June 24, 2008 by oncogene

[TennesseeGuy]

I've been self employed since 1976 and purchased health insurance for my family. In July 1999 I turned 65 and went on medicare. I pay nothing for part A, but I pay for medicare part B, a supplemental plan and a drug plan. I'm also still paying 2.9% of my earned income into medicare as a payroll tax. I've never considered myself to be entitled to receive free medical coverage. If I did, where should the free stuff stop? Should I also receive free government housing, a free automobile, free food and free fishing tackle? If I did I'd be hard pressed to have self respect and incentive to fare for myself.

 

I'm only saying what seems right for me. I won't be telling you that our plan would be better for you. Hooray for anyone who is satisfied with their health care plan. I won't be finding fault with yours.

 

We have two great sources of information on this board with Moosebunk and DonC who are well informed professionals. We've also heard good and not so good experiences from others. Other opinions have been what posters think is true, but can't be documented.

 

A single payer health care plan would do well for some countries, but I don't want it in the U.S. because our large population would create so many layers of bureaucracy that it would be inefficient to the point that it wouldn't work. We're almost past the point of return with our present system. My family doctor began a practice with two other doctors in 1973. They had a receptionist and each doc had a nurse. My doctor is now on one week and off the next, working 7 long days each week. There are only two doctors, but the support staff has grown to 12 including nurses and administrative workers.

 

In the state of Tennessee we provide health care for those who are financially unable to pay their own way. TennCare is also available for those who are uninsurable, but they pay a premium when they are able. Many TennCare recipients have cell phones with lots of minutes and many eat out more than I do. They do a lot of doctor shopping, end up with multiple prescriptions for high powered pain pills and sell them for 100% profit because they pay nothing for them.

 

Yeah, the back is bad. There was nothing holding L4 & L5 together and the same thing is happening above and below the problem area. Maybe we'll do the same thing, doubled down, in about 8 years or so. Seems like a good reason for me to go fishing again next month. Thanks for asking.

Edited June 24, 2008 by TennesseeGuy

[Chris]

Oncogene

in Canada, at least u'r sure everyone will get treated. If you'r rich and don't want to wait, you can always pay out of ur own pocket to get tests done, in Canada or down in US.

 

Hey oncogene, tell that to my buddy that died waiting for treatment. According to your statement above, only the rich get treated in a timely fashion. Maybe you should say "in Canada, at least u'r sure everyone will get treated...if they have the money, just like in the US". You hear reports every year about people that died waiting for treatment in Canada. Like I said before.....if you live in a vote rich area of Canada, you will have no problems with your "free" healthcare. For everyone else, it's the luck of the draw. Please consider the situation outside of the GTA.

 

As far as nobody being denied healthcare in Canada, try showing up for medical treatment without a healthcard.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Oncogene

 

Hey oncogene, tell that to my buddy that died waiting for treatment. According to your statement above, only the rich get treated in a timely fashion. Maybe you should say "in Canada, at least u'r sure everyone will get treated...if they have the money, just like in the US". You hear reports every year about people that died waiting for treatment in Canada. Like I said before.....if you live in a vote rich area of Canada, you will have no problems with your "free" healthcare. For everyone else, it's the luck of the draw. Please consider the situation outside of the GTA.

 

As far as nobody being denied healthcare in Canada, try showing up for medical treatment without a healthcard.

 

We hear every year of people dying waiting for treatment??? I don't. If the health care is that bad where you live? The people would have(or should) complained to their MP and something would have been done about it. I'm sure there is more to the story that your buddy died waiting for treatment.

 

Even in the states, they said that the smaller hospitals will transfer you to the bigger hospitals that have better care. If you ever get really sick? Admit yourself to a hospital in a major city.

 

We have heard people from London and Kingston say that Canada's healthcare is working.

 

The difference is here. You won't get a gigantic bill in the mail when you get home. And even their insurance doesn't cover everything.

[Canuck2fan]

I've been self employed since 1976 and purchased health insurance for my family. In July 1999 I turned 65 and went on medicare. I pay nothing for part A, but I pay for medicare part B, a supplemental plan and a drug plan. I'm also still paying 2.9% of my earned income into medicare as a payroll tax. I've never considered myself to be entitled to receive free medical coverage. If I did, where should the free stuff stop? Should I also receive free government housing, a free automobile, free food and free fishing tackle? If I did I'd be hard pressed to have self respect and incentive to fare for myself.

 

Our system isn't free..... We pay for it through our taxes which are quite high by American standards. However our Universal system costs less per capita than yours. I think the later part of your post describes why that is. Your own doctors went from having 4 support staff for 3 doctors to having 12 for two? Holy, no wonder your system is under seize just like ours. I have spoken with various people who work in the American system whose sole job it was to be a liason between the doctor and the HMO. The stories they tell me are very different from yours. Just having insurance in the U.S. does not insure getting the best or prompt treatment either from what they say. One woman who worked for an OBY/GN spent 9 hrs a day on the phone checking up on what was covered and what wasn't by a particular patients "plan". How could a UNIVERSAL system not be more efficient if you multiply that waste of time by the number of doctors in the U.S.?

 

I think you are the type of person that your current President, drug company CEO and HMO CEO just love. A hard working independant minded fella from the old school who thinks that taking anything like a "socialized" medical plan with one payer (you since you are a tax payer) would turn the country you love into a "commie" like state. The funny thing is I bet if your neighbour needed anything and you had it you would give it up in a second without a thought. Am I right? If so then what is different about having the same for medical treatment? Everybody shares the pain and the good. The only difference is, if everyone in the U.S. decided that health was a fundamental human right, you could with the political will cut out the fat not only for the lawyers but the CEO's of the HMO's and drug companies making 10,000,000 dollars PLUS a year...... Think if how many drugs and MRI's that could buy.

[bigfish1965]

Well I have never waited once for anything important..cancer treatment and gall bladder removal were all done almost immediately! In fact I had to beg them to delay the gall bladder surgery cause I was going away the day after it was diagnosed and they wanted it out that night.

I would think that those living in remote areas get slower help...but if you didn't expect that would happen when you moved there, shake your head a bit.

Last week I had another trip to the hospital. In the ER waiting room for ten minutes and then seeing doctors...again they wanted me back Thursday (next day) for more stuff but I had to go to Lakair (priorities, ya know). Going tomorrow to complete tests.

 

Maybe I'm just really lucky, but I have not had one bad experience. Our only real issue is a shortage of GP's.

[Chris]

Rick

I would think that those living in remote areas get slower help...but if you didn't expect that would happen when you moved there, shake your head a bit.

 

Eastern Ontario is hardly a remote area. Just no votes here.

 

Johnny Bass

We hear every year of people dying waiting for treatment??? I don't. If the health care is that bad where you live? The people would have(or should) complained to their MP and something would have been done about it. I'm sure there is more to the story that your buddy died waiting for treatment.

 

I see you are from TO, where it appears the system is working fine. Please reread my message. We don't have enough votes here for our MP's to give a crap.

[bigfish1965]

Rick

 

Eastern Ontario is hardly a remote area. Just no votes here.

 

Johnny Bass

 

I see you are from TO, where it appears the system is working fine. Please reread my message. We don't have enough votes here for our MP's to give a crap.

I am from Niagara..not much votes here either. Just a tightly run, efficient system. I think it has more to do with the people directly involved than our government since whatever issues areas have, have continued through successive goverments. If some areas can do what they do well, and each area gets the same per capita funding, everyone should be able to do the same.