Dual batteries wiring diagram

[icefisherman]

Just spent few hours searching the web trying to find a simple wiring diagram for using two batteries on board and charging both of them from the kicker motor while trolling.

 

I guess battery switch and isolator are needed but exact wiring I've seen has confused me somewhat.

Does anyone have a simple diagram I could follow?

I have two identical "Die Hard" deep cycle batteries.

1) battery 1 is at the back and is currently wired to be used as starting battery as well as power for all that is on board but the trolling motor.

2) battery 2 is under the left console and only the electric trolling motor is connected to it. (Not sure if the radio/cassette is connected to it too?!?)

 

I'll be installing VHF radio and two electric downriggers....what are my options and to which battery to connect those?

What cables will I need?

Can the main motor and the kicker motor both charge both batteries?

 

What cost am I looking at in electrical equipment?

 

Thanks.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[douG]

Emil,

 

We can talk tomorrow morning, I can set you up. PM me your phone #, or call me after 9 am, see pm

[icefisherman]

PM sent Doug.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[icefisherman]

Over 100 people read the post over the past 24 hrs and I guess none of them was electrician and none of them had a boat with two motors and two batteries?

 

Or all electrical experts must be on vacation

 

C'mon guys I am sure some of you must have exactly the same setup I am talking about on your boats.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[tschirk]

I have been charging my main & trolling batteries off of my Honda 90 for years. Very Simple set up uses a solenoid to bridge the + terminals on each battery together only when the motor is running.

I found a 12vdc can type in the RV accessories section at Crappy Tire

 

connect a 6AWG or better between both - terminals

Using 6AWG wire the solenoid to connect between the each + terminals. Make sure you wire a 30A inline fuse.

Connect the solenoid control lead to the accessory power on the motors ignition.

 

It works great!

Ted

[Terry]

sorry

thought doug solved your problem

 

you can run negetive to negetive strait and use an isolator between the postitives

 

 

this will do it

see here

[icefisherman]

Terry,

 

I've seen a lot of setups on the web but could not find wiring diagram for my situation (two motors where either one is charging either/or both batteries).

But from what I've seen I have a feeling I need not only isolator but also one of those guys:

 

http://ca.binnacle.com/product_info.php?cP...roducts_id=1375

 

The problem is how EXACTLY do I wire it all so both alternators are protected and I don't fry the kicker alternator...at the same time I could charge either battery or both at the same time from either motor.

 

It gets a bit complicated when two motors get involved....I think....depending on the setup I may have to shut off engine one before starting engine 2....??

 

Just want to make sure I don't mess it all up and connect everything the right way...

Also how many Amps switch or isolator do you think I'll need?

When it's all set and one I'll have two electric riggers, two radios, one fishfinder, the bilge pump, the electric trolling motor and what ever other instruments on the dash....

I'd like to connect everything but the electric trolling motor to the main A battery (as long as it can hande it) and only the electric trolling motor to the battery B...this way I'll keep charging battery A while I am using it (with the main motor while going to the spot and later on with the kicker while trolling) and battery B will always be at or near 100% charge as I rarely will use the trolling motor....

 

 

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Edited December 9, 2007 by icefisherman

[keram]

Over 100 people read the post over the past 24 hrs and I guess none of them was electrician and none of them had a boat with two motors and two batteries?

 

Or all electrical experts must be on vacation

 

C'mon guys I am sure some of you must have exactly the same setup I am talking about on your boats.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

 

 

Well, do not be surprised. It is not enough info in your post.

Just spent few hours searching the web trying to find a simple wiring diagram for using two batteries on board and charging both of them from the kicker motor while trolling.

What kind of motor ?, how many HP ?,

kicker motor while trolling.

?, It is going to be on the low REV range ? right ?

Now, You have two batteries, imagine that one is at 20% another at 80%., both require different current (amps) to be charged correctly, but your "kicker motor" can suply only one kind of current ( at trolling speed it will be pretty low)

Somebody has suggested that there is no problem charging batteries with his "Honda 90 hp for years". I do not question this at all, but do you have 90 hp kicker used for trolling on very low REV ?

 

Bottom line is that ( in my opinion ) main battery ( start ) should be charged from main motor ( not kicker ), other one should be charged from dedicated charger in your garage. And from time to time both should be toped - up from independent charger ( off water ).

If you insist of doing it the way you described it in your question, it will be rather expensive and very complicated

[Terry]

oops..missed you want to charge with 2 motors

 

 

first do you know how big an alternator the kicker has....at idle it will have trouble doing any major charging....

[icefisherman]

Keram,

 

I'll add (and have added) additional info as we go...as I wasn't sure what info is needed....

 

The main motor is 115HP Suzuki 2 stroke

The kicker is 9.9HP Hight Thrust Yamaha 4 Stroke

 

I don't mind chargint batteries home from time to time...but would like to have the capability to charge them from the motors as well while going full speed to the spot (with the main motor) and while trolling( with the Yamaha kicker).

 

And I suspect it'll be complicated and costly but wanted to see what is involved first with my "ideal" case scenario and then if need be will change/downgrade requirements....

 

If any other info in needed let me know and I'll supply it but see my previous post for additional details on what I'd like to achieve.

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[icefisherman]

oops..missed you want to charge with 2 motors

first do you know how big an alternator the kicker has....at idle it will have trouble doing any major charging....

 

 

Well Terry,

 

the new model (2007) of the same Yamaha T9.9 HP motor says:

 

Alternator Output 12v / 6 Amps

 

So I assume mine (2000 model year) would be the same?

 

Also to add....both batteries are identical .

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Edited December 9, 2007 by icefisherman

[Fang]

ICE

 

can't remember fully what boat you bought and what trolling motor. Does it come with 12V and 24V options. You're running a 115HP which would indicate a 17+ft boat and wondering what lb trolling motor.

 

If the trolling motor has 24V set up option defintitely go that route and forget tying into the starting battery with an isolator. A starting battery and trolling motor battery are quite different in amp ratings. Run 2-12V for 24V. You can fish all weekend and instead of the isolator get an onboard charger

[Terry]

6 amps when running at lest 1/4 throttle

it isn't going to charge anything at trolling speeds..it might maintain the equipment you are running while you have the kicker running but no more then that

[icefisherman]

ICE

 

can't remember fully what boat you bought and what trolling motor. Does it come with 12V and 24V options. You're running a 115HP which would indicate a 17+ft boat and wondering what lb trolling motor.

 

If the trolling motor has 24V set up option defintitely go that route and forget tying into the starting battery with an isolator. A starting battery and trolling motor battery are quite different in amp ratings. Run 2-12V for 24V. You can fish all weekend and instead of the isolator get an onboard charger

 

 

Fang,

 

I bought 17'2" Lund.

The electric trolling motor is 12V 55 Lbs thrust.

I also bought (not installed yet) 9.9HP Yamaha Hight Thrust kicker for it that I'd like to use as charging motor while trolling, but also to use the main one (more powerful alternator?) to charge batteries while going full speed to the fishing spot...as sometime that fishing spot maybe good 45-60 min away...

My batteries are indentical...both are same brand name,same age and both are deep cycle....

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[irishfield]

[keram]

Well Terry,

 

the new model (2007) of the same Yamaha T9.9 HP motor says:

 

Alternator Output 12v / 6 Amps

 

So I assume mine (2000 model year) would be the same?

 

Also to add....both batteries are identical .

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

 

 

Alternator Output 12v / 6 Amps . This is what I have a problem with.

12V is not enough to charge your batteries (as a matter of fact any 12V batteries ), it should be around 13.1 - 13.4V)

6 amps? at what RPM (600 - 700, trolling speed) or 4000+ rpm with FOT ( full open throttle )

 

Also to add....both batteries are identical .

 

It is 100% irrelevant. The charging current depends on the level of discharge ( assuming that both batteries are in the same "physical state" )

[icefisherman]

Keram,

 

maybe this will answer the question about the RPM:

 

http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/produc...up=O#contentTop

 

and here:

http://www.eastcarolinapowersports.com/new...p;CatDesc=&

 

it says:

Alternator Output 10A @ W.O.T.

so maybe it is 6 amps at trolling speed??

 

You say it will not charge "any 12V battery" ........hmmmmm....why would Yamaha make a trolling motor (high thrust!) with electric start that can not charge any battery? Sure Yamaha knows that morot will often be used at trolling speed and therefore willneed to be used as charging device...what is the whole idea of having a motor that can not charge your battery...and how do other fisherman out there (must be thousands of them) that use the same motor as kicker charge their batteries?!?

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

Edited December 9, 2007 by icefisherman

[Fisherman]

Usually when the mfgrs say 12V 6amp output, it is generally an accepted fact that they put out around 13.5 to 13.8Volt DC, I know for a fact my old Honda, 7.5 did and so does my present Honda 25, otherwise you wouldn't be charging the batteries at any speed. What you are trying to accomplish could be done, but, it would take a bunch of solenoids/relays, far too much of a clusterf of wiring. I would let the big motor run the main battery, fish finder and VHF. A fish finder generally takes less than 1 amp/hr and the VHF maybe 3 amps when keying the mic on high power, when just monitoring/listening, usually less than 1 amp/hr and unless you're "like a woman on the phone all day"(not dissing the girls here), that battery will do fine. Let the kicker run your downrigger battery unless you plan on playing yoyo with them all day. I run everything off one battery, Fish/F, VHF, downrigger and haven't had any problems.

[irishfield]

It's hard to help in text Emil and why I've left this alone. We don't know how much battery room you have in the boat.

 

Each motor should have it's own battery...and the gas motors should have STARTING batteries.. not deep cycle batteries.

 

What I would do is buy a new pair of starting battery to use on your main motor and kicker and buy one of the isolators that Terry pointed out. If you really feel you need to charge that electric trolling motor battery then buy the 3 bank isolator. In my opinion, as keram has pointed out, you are asking for trouble sooner or later trying to do them all. Take the deep cycle you now have for a starting battery and put it in parallel with the existing trolling motor battery and buy an on board charger for them.

 

What I would do... 2 bank isolator off the big motors alternator output. Then the outputs off the isolator go to each starting battery. This way when you are running around the lake the big motor..with a higher output alternator..charges both your main and kicker starting batteries up. All your accessories that you will be running while trolling with the kicker should be hooked to the kickers battery. That way you won't kill your main motors starting battery while using the kicker... IE the way the din ks at Lund had mine hooked up when I got it !

 

Can't believe you didn't comment on my lad with the knife picture! LOL

Edited December 9, 2007 by irishfield

[icefisherman]

To add something to the discussion.

I keep saying the kicker is HIGH THRUST and seems like it was not considered.

I was just told by a VERY GOOD FRIEND of mine ;-) (what would I do without him?!?):

 

" The high thrust motor (lower gear ratio) will be running at higher RPMs than a normal kicker. I believe high thrust models also have higher amperage output at lower RPMs because they are designed to be kicker motors."

 

I also think that despite it says 12V it actually produces more then that when running (just like any other 12V motor).

 

 

Maybe Fisherman is right....

 

1) Connecting the main motor to the main battery with Fishfinder, AM/FM, Nav. Lights, Interior Lights, Livewells, Bildge

 

2) Connecting the kicker motor to the second battery with Bow Mount Electric (rarely used), Downriggers, VHF.

 

and keep them separate...main motor should have no problem charging the main battery enough while running.

Kicker (been HIGHT THRUST) should have no problem keeping the second battery charged enough for running the downriggers and the VHF OR the electric trolling motor and VHF. I will never need the eletric trolling motor and downriggers used at the same time.

 

So........what about this solution? Will it work? No need for any special wiring/switches/isolators/combiners etc.???

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[keram]

You say it will not charge "any 12V battery" ........hmmmmm....why would Yamaha make a trolling motor (high thrust!) with electric start that can not charge any battery? Sure Yamaha knows that morot will often be used at trolling speed and therefore willneed to be used as charging device...what is the whole idea of having a motor that can not charge your battery...and how do other fisherman out there (must be thousands of them) that use the same motor as kicker charge

their batteries?!?

 

Do not get me wrong, I do understand your confusion.. It is about semantics. 12V baterry is not really 12 V, it is usually around 13V. To charge it you need higher voltage to make the current flow. Theoretically 12V battery cannot be charged with any 12 V source. Reason beeing that there is no difference in voltage ( so there is no current ). It is very simlistic way to explain this ( many more factors are involved ), but this is how it works. you can check it very easy by yourself. If you have a simplest possible voltmeter, first open the hood of your car and measure voltage on battery ( it should read around 13 V), now turn on ignition, lights, blower, and the voltage will drop to almost 12 V ( if your battery is bad even lower), now start the engin and the voltage should go up to about 13.5- 13.8 V, and this is why your 12V battery is charged. If after starting the engine you still have only 12 V you are in deep S$$%#t, because you need new battery or new alternator.

 

In the reference to the links you've posted, they provide even more confusion:

 

First: 5000-6000 rpm ( max?) 12V/6A

Second: 4500 - 5500 (max?) 12V/10A

 

At the trolling speed your RPMs going yo be likely below 1000 ( how many amps the alternator can supply?? I have no idea

[Fisherman]

Not realizing you had a couple of extras there,(livewell, etc,) those could also be routed to a deep cycle that runs in parallel with your main motor through an isolator. That's easy enouogh to do. Again keep the kicker to run the 'riggers.

[icefisherman]

Well Wayne,

 

I knew you are pulling both my legs with that picture so I let it go ;-)

 

What do you think about my solution just above though?

I know ideally I should use starter batteries to start the motors but the deep cycle batteries I have should be able to start my motors fine I'd think right?

 

And if I separate them as described above I will not have any extra wiring, ectra batteries, extra switchers/isolators etc. and the load should be not too heavy for each motor to charge its battery, right?

 

Kind of.....everyone will be happy ;-)

Your idea of adding two more starter batteries is fine...but that will add weight and will leave me with two deep cycle batteries for my electric trolling motor that I'll rarely use anyway....bit of money/payload/resources waste I'd think....? And then running the riggers from the starter battery while having two deep cycle batteries just sitting and doing nothing 99% ot the time?!?

Would appreciate your comment ...even if it is done by posting another picture ;-)))

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[keram]

Maybe Fisherman is right....

 

It is not maybe. He is right 100%. use them separately and charge them separately. Just in case one will fail, have a buster cables on board so you can use other one to get to shore.

[icefisherman]

It is not maybe. He is right 100%. use them separately and charge them separately. Just in case one will fail, have a buster cables on board so you can use other one to get to shore.

 

 

I think we are getting there...together...that is until Wayne dumps another picture on me now ha ha ha

 

Can't tell you how much I appreciate your input guys!

Keram,

would you agree that my kicker is not a "regular kicker"....been HIGHT THRUST kicker must mean something...i.e. running at higher RPMs than a normal kicker and been thrust model also having higher amperage output at lower RPMs because theese motors are designed to be kicker motors?

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman