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To my buddy Lew we have chased this discussion like a dog and his tail while fishing and I always come to the same answer and that is that what you have up North is golden and I hope it stays that way. John how many people have the proper training to have a handgun in there possession the honest answer is very few. There is no requirement for any training to own a handgun. We have required training for hunting with rifles or shotguns. I would support a ridged training course as well as physiological testing before issuing a handgun permit to purchase a handgun instead of the current system to get a concealed permit. The real question the big one of can I use the gun to take a life had better be answered before you ever have to pick up the gun for defense. If the situation is life threatening and you hesitate the gun you pulled might be the gun that gets you killed. Remember we are talking about life threatening, not protect your property or teach an intruder a lesson. Anger has nothing to do with this it is simply the first one to shoot is the one who walks away. Am I happy about this ? no not at all can I change this? realistically no I cant. It falls into the category of one of the downsides of life here but I can honestly say it is a small price to pay to be here in what I consider a great place to visit. BillM I agree if I needed to have a hand gun on my side to feel safe I would move that thankfully is rarely the case. I have a better chance of shooting a bear than I do an intruder. Art

The pencil is to show any object can become a weapon. I can in 10 minutes in your average house make a mass destruction weapon. The scary part is you can do the same using the internet. I am not trying to change anyones mind on guns and I envy Canadas lack of handguns on the street. The issue is once you got them out there gun control will not take them off the street. We are failing as a society all over the world and we all seem to have opinions and disparaging remarks instead of realistic answers. I personally do not have the answer I so far have not read a single answer to prevent man on man violence either here or anywhere I have search for it. This will be a circle discussion that has no answer. Some one asked when would this be locked the simple answer is when people break the Sites rules most often for name calling and general rudeness. Art

Lew it is not the gun that is the issue it is the people who think that killing innocentpeople acceptable. Every person has the ability to not kill thy neighbor you have to over ride that reflex to do those things. You first reflex in any situation is to run from conflict. Say we could get the guns off the street from the good guys very possible do you think the people who have made the decision to use them illegally will turn theirs in? so reality is guns are here to stay in the USA no way around it. The density and the complex life style we have/want is high pressure and is present every where is not as dense in Canada. The Percentages are slated unbalanced people exists every where in the world. If I didn't have a gun and I wanted to kill I can produce a weapon in 10 minuted misusing common products available around the house. Put the blame where it belongs SOCIETY is broken no doubt and it appears up North as well as down here. There is no difference between one man killing another for a reason that is socially not acceptable than a man who kills 10 people. After the first one is killed they are no more crazy than the man who only had one victim. The media however will give excessive coverage on the mass murder because people by nature feed off the news in a ghoulish manner. Look how often the lead stories are of tragedies rather than all of the good things going on around you. Art

I feel pretty safe Bill I have no fear that the country will be over run internally or externally. It is the hands and the mind that make guns evil. I can show you 10 ways to kill with a pencil video if you want. Art

I'm sorry I was not inferring that your info is not factual or incorrect it is that Obama is 3 steps below the junk tabloids and Wiki in my eyes. I have never nor will I hold someones opinions or views against them because reality is in the eyes you look thru and the path you travel thru life. Art

Your down to quoting Obama? He is about to start WW3 with his insane antics. Go back to Wiki I have more faith in it then him. lol Art

There is nothing more devastating than finding you brought a knife to a gun fight. I am tactically trained as well as ex-special forces. I don't think like you do I am the one who will be the first one to apologize and try to walk away from a fight. I will also be the one who when cornered and yes it has happened release maximum force to put down anyone who threatens me. I have not pulled a gun in public however I have used force to neutralize an opponent when they pressed the issue. fighting or pulling a gun is not something that is pleasant far from it. The mindset has to be maximum force to keep minimum damage to ones self at all times. Arm me with a baseball bat and it will have the same outcome I don't hit you in the leg and you will not get back up off the ground. Violence is the last resort I would rather give you the shirt off my back if you are cold. As far as outlawing handguns it just isn't possible down here they are everywhere and the only ones who would turn them in is the law abiding citizens surely you do not thing that the criminals would become disarmed in the same numbers that lawful citizens would be. For Canada my advise is never open Pandoras box keep handguns outlawed allow people to keep all of the guns that can be used for sporting and hunting applications. Having protection that matches the level that a criminial has is just plain good sense. When you go off into the bush you carry the items that you think you need to go there have fun and make it back without damage to oneself. You take the tools available to get the job done easily as well as a mindset and skills to be safe. As I said before I am not trying to change your mind nor justify what we do down South just point out we will never see this eye to eye. Art

Exactly and we both will walk away feeling we are both correct in the way we have reached our own logical decisions. Art

Kind of after the fact I do not carry a gun while fishing, All of my firearms stay on the property unless i am going to a place to hunt or shoot. That said it is not a matter of being afraid to go out it is a matter of common sense that keeps me from carrying. The element of the unknown is a strong control on human nature you do not go ripping thru a strange part of a lake if you think there is a shoal around because it is the unknown. You stop and look around a blind corner before pulling out into an intersection. This thought of what if he has a gun has the power to stop someone from becoming causally stupid. Up North you have a luxury that we will never have the very low percentage of legally owned handguns. If someone is in your house the odds of it being a gun fight is rare it is usually you with your trusty hand bludgeon or the horror a knife. That is not the scenario down here it is most likely and needs to be thought of as a life or death situation where as I have said first one to shoot wins. This is not a casual act and has life changing repercussions you don't hesitate in this nor any other time you bring maximum violence to end the conflict with a minimum amount of damage to yourself. This is a strange thing to most unless you have had either military training or other tactical schooling but it is the way I was taught and it has served me well over the years. I am not trying to justify or convert anyone to this way of thinking it i just a snapshot of the reason that shows that this is effective in one country but not in another. Art

The amusing thing about this thread is it is like trying to explain sight to a blind person. The USA has pistols so deeply entrenched in our culture and our rights that Canadian can not see the long term effects it has on shaping our Nation. We have never had the privilege nor can we have the privilege of knowing that a pistol will not appear in a disagreement or worse a home invasion. I find that if the possibility of a gun being called in to play people will think twice before they create a situation where it is "needed". I had an incident up North where an elderly Frenchman cussed me out because I was tagged by my boats decal as an American for going past him in a narrow bridge channel. No reason at all for his cussing and also no reason I should have cussed back but he then threatened me with a sinker across my head. Now I think that if there was a chance of it escalating to something that could be life changing he would have held his tongue and we would have enjoyed the day without the incident. I also took comfort in the fact that if he did sail a sinker at me I would be on the shore beating his ass knowing the worst case scenario would be he pulls a knife. It is a strange situation that most people who haven't seen both sides can grasp much less convey to someone who has been taught something so foreign that neither has a common ground to grasp. Art

You would think Good Year would offer up a friendly comp to the dealer of the tires, to keep them selling their brand wouldnt you think Art ? If I were a store owner and selling a brand name product, I would say look, if you would like for me to keep selling your product, then lets pony up here for the customer. I will make a call to the dealership I bought the truck from. I have a couple of weeks to decide weather I will do the exchange. I still feel Chrylers is the one to pony up here. I hear you but it would be an expensive courtesy that would drive the price of the product up. It isn't until the end consumer that makes the decision of how much he can afford to give away to the customer. The dealer is actually driven to carry the product by people asking for the product the manufacturer is doing the dealer a favor by allowing them to sell it. As you get to specialty products made for nitch markets you can get better service because they do not have a disposable customer base that the big names have. Art

The warranty is on the tire the tire was pro rated and provided to you. You then deal with the merchant to have it mounted and balanced. The tire manufacturer will not pay the merchant for the labor they will only replace the tire in his stock. It is a fairly common occurrence in business now a days. When I buy parts from the warehouse they have a clause you sign that they are not liable for labor, lost wages, damages and other incidentals if the part is defective. You flood a house with a cracked 5 cent ferrule and they send you a new ferrule. It is up to me to decide if the installation of the new part after the warranty is free or not. Dealerships will in some cases extend the good will to do this for free since you bought a car from them so this small expenditure of labor is covered in the past profit and future good will of the customer. The tire shop does not make enough profit in future sales to you to recover the lost time and expenditure of money to get the tire replaced. Art

NO................ you never sleep with a knife on your chest. sheesh Art

I got to disagree with this with it being most of but should read a few of would be O.K. It is not a gun slinger mentality that plays into if I have to draw it is improving my odds of walking away from a confrontation that I did not instigate. It is the same way I treat any fight. Step one is talk your way out of it saying anything that will defuse the situation. If that fails then try to back away from the conflict. If that fails then kick yell claw scratch and head butt the person before he is ready to fight. No rules no mercy get them down and incapacitated before you get hurt. Same for a home intrusion assume they are armed, let them have anything material they can carry and if they come into the same room as you are in shoot for the center mass and don't stop till the gun is empty. It is not tough guy talk it is the correct way to get the chances of walking away from an issue in your favor. Some people thing shooting someone is brutal and inhumane however change the gun to alcohol and most people have driven a car drunk and didn't care that THEY are just as deadly as a gun is in that vehicle. I would feel less anger if someone dies by my gun threatening my life than knowing I killed an innocent person while driving drunk. The choice on how to protect ones self and family is a personal one and it all depends on at what point do you feel you have done enough to live with the outcome of the life changing event. Art

Brian a defence load is for the shotgun it is a hornaby critical defense ammo a tight pattern for less spread more lead in the target. For the 9mm it is glaser fragmenting ammo heavy penetration with quick energy release in the point of impact less likely to travel thru the target. Both are extremely deadly and are designed to do maximum damage. Folks if you pull a gun and you are not 100% sure you can pull the trigger don't even think about bringing it out. It will be the gun that you will get killed with. An intruder in your house is outside of the law he doesn't care to play by the rules , he hopes you will play by the rules and give him a leg up on you. You charge someone with a baseball bat and he has a gun you will not reach him if he is serious on harming you or getting something he wants. In training for the special forces it was drummed into your head If two men have two guns the first one to shoot wins if you don't believe this 100% don't come out of the bedroom. Don't confuse life and death situations with a scary noise or a drunk knocking on the front door. Cliff life altering situations occur to us all we make decisions daily that affect the outcome of the future. If my choice is to mentally or legally deal with shooting someone who feels he is above the law or hesitate and be shot or worse he shoots my wife I will always take the shot. It all comes back to what are you willing to risk for something you love be it a wife or daughter or yourself. Art

I keep a shotgun in the hall and a 9mm pistol in the bedroom drawer both loaded with defense ammo. I have no issues with using them because of my previous training in the use of them in the SeaBees. I do not have to worry about it being a family member since it is my wife and I only. Being the first one to shoot will end the event before you are harmed. Personally I like having guns and pistols and also that others also have them it seems to make people more cautious or hesitate to intrude in places that might have firearms available. Just my thoughts from a more liberal view that can have weapons legally. Art

I can't see this as being good however please refrain from bashing or insulting comments and we will see where this goes. Art

One word Raf AWESOME. The pad on the 89 ranger was what I fell in love with and why I rebuilt it instead of buying a new one. This was the last year before they changed to a different design and it feels rock solid. The weight of the older boats makes for a solid ride with out flexing when you hit a wake and keeps the pad from rocking on and off when passing thru a wake. Art

MMM perch one of the best eating fish in the waters. Art

Very cool but have you notice a strong family resemblance in the facial features? lol Thanks for the view of the Nip it is one of my favorite places to fish. Art

Just Wow thanks for the insight of your little bit of heaven Art

Looks like we are back up to 3 please keep this factual and civil I would like to see how this shakes out since it is an issue that has happen both in the past as well as going to occur in the future. Art

1989 Ranger 350V GTX 150 modified 62 MPH 2 men and gear. Art

to much fine foods? lol Art

3....2..... Art