POLLIWOGG Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 Collision regs -- rule 3 General definitions ( The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery. A vessel adrift would not be under power and would have restricted maneuverability and may not be under command and should be considered a "stand on" vessel and others should stay clear. As soon as the drifting vessel starts a motor it takes on the responsibility of a power vessel and shutting the motor off doesn't relieve it of that responsibility, once a vessel is the "give way" vessel it stays the give way vessel. But you still don't have "right of way" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 There is no rule anywhere that states a vessel has a "right of way" the term "right of way " is not anywhere in the collision regs. There is a "stand on" vessel but it stands on till there is a risk of collision and then gives way. Some publications use the term when they try to simplify the regs. but they shouldn't because at some point all vessels are give way vessels, as in my favorite collision reg. simplified states if that %%%^ hole aint going to give way then its up to you.. In the situation where a sailboat approaches from the stern and is overtaking he should give way as any overtaking vessel is the give way vessel, if it fails to do so get on the horn an give five blasts and that should clear him out of there. Trolling lines does not effect the maneuverability of a boat, they don't care if we tangle our lines so make your turns early before its a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 (edited) youre absolutely right Terry, their is a rule that states the boat which is least manuverable has the right of way so that means a trolling vessel going 2 knots has the right of way over a sailing vessel going 10 knots, Just think about it how is a fishing boat trolling with 8 lines out going to turn sharp enough to avoid sailboats and tangle all their lines when all the guy has to do is turn his wheel slightly to the left or right???? its just common sense.Bowen I don't think so... you only have less manuverability because you choose to, if you are under power by an internal combustion engine and a sailboat is only under power by wind... you best give way! How many fishing lines you have out is irrelevant. ... and I suppose a barge and tug or a freighter should give way to you too... because you are fishing. Edited July 21, 2007 by Greencoachdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live2fish Posted July 21, 2007 Report Share Posted July 21, 2007 If a sailboat steers up the stern of my boat and keeps coming i have the right of way. http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/TP/tp14675/menu.htm The only usually serious times are when they come from the back but if they come from the front most of them can find the wheel and turn. If everyone is telling me they have teh right of way then tell me what im supposed to do in this situation. Im trolling at 2 mph and sailboat is coming up behind me at 10 miles per hour am i suppose to pull up all my lines and run a few feet for him to miss me. You will say blow your horn, dont worry ive done that many times these people jsut dont react a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live2fish Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 (edited) It also says in teh collison act all sailboats at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision. Half the boats that go by us jump up and run to teh wheel becasue tehre to busy doing something else and not watching where they are going. The collison act also says Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist. These guys dont turn or nothing half the time if we dont give way they would go right into you and wouldnt no it untill they hit. yet another law made by the collison act. If there is sufficient sea room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result in another close-quarters situation. Is there not suffient sea room for sailboats who come right out of port and go right behind you and make it a close quarters situation?? Sailors ive talked to say they use fishing boats as a place to point there bow so they go in a straight line, how can the fishing boat change there course if the sailboat just changes it to go right towards them. Bowen Edited July 22, 2007 by live2fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live2fish Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 tell me whos fault this was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Live2fish When you use a horn signal you have to use the right one, if you give one blast you have told him you are getting out of his way and turning to starboard. If you give the danger signal -five blasts - everybody that hears it will be watching and hopefully it will embarrass him into changing his ways. If that don't work do the same as you would if it was a PWC call the cops on him, operating a vessel dangerously. "If a sailboat steers up the stern of my boat and keeps coming i have the right of way." No, That is transport Ca. using automotive terms because thats what they're used to. Rule 13 Overtaking---International a Notwithstanding anything contained in the rules of part B sections I and II, Any vessel overtaking any other vessel shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken. Yes the sailboat is supposed to keep clear. Now that sounds like "right of way" but its not because of Rule 17 b that would take that "right" of way away from you. I haven't read all 60 pages but I haven't seen the term "right of way" anywhere in the collision regs they use the terms give way and stand on. Rule 17 b action by stand on vessel When from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision. Now that sounds like common sense but if I'm in an accident and plan on arguing My right of way in court I might be out of luck and found a % at fault. I think the thought here is they don't want huge freighters going around pigheadedly standing on their right of way, its better to have everybody avoiding everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Sailboat approaching from the port side its up to the fishing boat to stay clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Float fishermen who show up on the river at 9:30 am with a coffee in hand and figure the best free spot is the 6 inches of river bank right in front of you or even worse a string of guys getting their drifts synchronized and one guy in the middle who's timing is total off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addict Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 jetski a holes they got the whole lake why buzz the shoreline. people who crowd your shore spot,or steal your spot and move thier whole family in when u land your fish. leaving garbage on banks or in water skitos or any other biting fly !@#$ people without boat launch etiquette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaque Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 tell me whos fault this was OMG, is that for real or photoshopped......thats unbelievable!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowshep Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Load the cannons. Peace Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(live2fish @ Jul 21 2007, 09:27 PM) * tell me whos fault this was Guy....I completely agree What an idiot! Unfortunatley Thats a bit of a grey area but... Given the open expanse of area available to travel, and the speed of your vessle I'd say he's breaking the law as he has not given a safe birth (or even attempted to stay away or "well Clear") based on your picture. If he's over taking you he's responsable for giving/makeing way... Collision regulations states "the operator of a pleasure sailing craft shall take early and substantial action to keep well clear of a vessel engaged in fishing." http://www.boaterexam.com/canada/education...lations-en.aspx I'd be tempted to throw something no doubt, but a call to the police might be more prudent. Edited July 23, 2007 by Cookslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) Real idiots on a jet ski....hopefully landed hard enough to never reproduce. The driver may have actually landed that if passenger wasn't hanging onto his neck. Hope they took insurance on the rental. Edited July 23, 2007 by Zamboni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 In regards to the sailboat picture. What you are looking at is a power boat passing in front of a sailboat. The sailboat is not overtaking it was on the port side making it the stand on vessel responsible to maintain coarse and speed. The power boat was the give way vessel responsible for keeping clear of the sailboat and he did, he cut it a little close but there was no risk of exchanging paint and as he is the only one on the lake that knows what he is dragging he has to be responsible for it. If there was no risk of collision so there was no reason for the sailboat to react keeping in mind that the sailor has no way of knowing what the power boat is dragging behind it. Rule 3 General definitions d The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus that does not restrict maneuverability. WE are not considered a vessel engaged in fishing. If anyone thinks there is someone at fault it would be on the power boat but I don't think the sailor would consider that a close call and would not be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 In regards to the sailboat picture. What you are looking at is a power boat passing in front of a sailboat. The sailboat is not overtaking it was on the port side making it the stand on vessel responsible to maintain coarse and speed. The power boat was the give way vessel responsible for keeping clear of the sailboat and he did, he cut it a little close but there was no risk of exchanging paint and as he is the only one on the lake that knows what he is dragging he has to be responsible for it. If there was no risk of collision so there was no reason for the sailboat to react keeping in mind that the sailor has no way of knowing what the power boat is dragging behind it. Rule 3 General definitions d The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus that does not restrict maneuverability. WE are not considered a vessel engaged in fishing. If anyone thinks there is someone at fault it would be on the power boat but I don't think the sailor would consider that a close call and would not be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Ah I see... Definition of "engaged in fishing" buy the law is not recreational angling at all but instead is considered proffesional harvesting. mmm...who knew? Despite all that, If this sailboat came up from the rear, and cut in as Live2fish said... How someone could fail to identify a boat with rods and riggers sticking up all over the place, moving at 2 knots as a boat engaged in recreational angling is beyond me. They in this instance did not keep well clear of the vessle. A not so sypathetic lawman may agree...or not Like I said grey area. Legal or not Its either a pretty tastless move, or a boatload of clueless sailors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I don't see where livetofish said it came from the rear but like he did say if the sailor was using him for a waypoint it wouldn't matter what he did to avoid him he would pass close by. Sailor would rather pass close behind with the gap widening than close in front with it closing, when I tell them we'd rather have them in front they generally need an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 My biggest beef is people killing fish for spawn and leaving them to rot on the shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I don't see where livetofish said it came from the rear I could be completely wrong but I thought thats what he was implying with post #79 I've been wrong atleast once before though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live2fish Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Polliwog, No where in my post did i say this guy came from the rear i said whos fault was this, my post before had nothing to do with this boat but come on you cannot really believe the sailboat was the victim and the fishing boat was in the fault. In what way could the fishing boat have done anything diffrent he's going TWO MPH. The sailboat is going 12 or 13 the sailboat came from the side and cut right behind his ass. The fisherman is lucky he wasnt using leadcore or long leads becuase the sailboat would have caught his gear with the lead keel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I don't think either of them was a victim. Speed has nothing to do with it, the sailor is responsible to keep his coarse and speed so as not to screw up any plan the fisherman has in his responsibility to keep clear of the sailer. They have been in sight of each other for around 15 min so there was lots of time to turn but the fisherman chose to go in front of the sailer knowing from the relative bearing that it was going to be close. If the fisherman was not happy with how close the sailor would pass behind he should have sped up a bit or slowed to let the sailor pass in front of him or better still turn toward the sailor when it was 1/2 mile away and passed starboard to starboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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