Lower Unit oil is milky gray...

[ilario]

Hi there,

 

I drained the lower unit oil on my Honda, and it's quite milky gray...i think this may indicate that water got into it... Do I have a problem on my hands?

 

 

here is what it looks like:

 

 

 

[misfish]

Well first off you have water getting in,second off,when was the last time you changed the oil? I had the same thing with my old Johnson but trailered the boat all the time so I just changed the oil/bottom end twice a year and really never worried about it,as it,s not a big deal to change the oil every so often. If you want to solve the problem,you need to replace the seals.

[ilario]

I just bought the motor! Is this a big problem? What does it cost to change seals? Can I still operate the motor? Should I not both refilling the lower unit with fresh oil (untill I have the seals replaced)?

 

 

Thanks very much in advance...

[misfish]

You,ll be fine as long as you change the oil.If your worried about it,then have the seals replaced. As for cost,

 

I have a guy here that dose my work for a fair price,no matter what has to be done.You being from the Northern Hemisphere,the price maybe different.

[aniceguy]

you have water in the lower unit. Here is my step by step suggestion

 

First change the oil and the gaskets to the inlet and outlet of it. Run it 1 time. Look at the oil afterwards. If its not milky your good to go only a gasket but do check it every few outings If it is milky have a pressure test done on it at a reputable marina and then go from there. Is it a big problem NO!!! but if you dont take care of it most certainly it will become a big big problem.

 

Try the first step and make sure the gasket it the correct one for the motor. First step 10 bucks at most second step a pressure test 100 plus or so. A gasket 120 a piece or so.

Edited May 26, 2007 by aniceguy

[ilario]

you have water in the lower unit. Here is my step by step suggestion

 

First change the oil and the gaskets to the inlet and outlet of it. Run it 1 time. Look at the oil afterwards. If its not milky your good to go only a gasket but do check it every few outings If it is milky have a pressure test done on it at a reputable marina and then go from there. Is it a big problem NO!!! but if you dont take care of it most certainly it will become a big big problem.

 

Try the first step and make sure the gasket it the correct one for the motor. First step 10 bucks at most second step a pressure test 100 plus or so. A gasket 120 a piece or so.

 

 

You kinda lost me! Obviously, I'm not very good at this! So, a "gasket to the inlet and outlet"? - do you mean where the gear oil exits from and where you'd pump it into the lower unit? Where can I get these gaskets? I'm assuming any Honda marine dealer? Does it have to be taken apart?

 

One other thing - should I grease the area where the prop fits into (the rod it fits onto and the surrounding area)? I pulled off the prop to run the motor in a bucket...

 

thanks very much fellas...I really appreciate your help.

[misfish]

Im sure he meant the screws you remove. There should be an O ring on them.

[lookinforwalleye]

If it was my motor I would change the gear oil replaced the small gasket on the drain screw and take the motor out a couple of times and then re-check the oil for signs of water.

[danc]

On a related note, I changed my bottom end oil a few weeks ago. It looked fine. But I couldn't find the o ring that should have been on the drain screw. I have two vent screws up top and both o rings were there. One stayed on the screw and the other stayed in the threaded opening. I was dumbfounded as I am very careful about such things. I had no idea what happened to the drain opening o ring. I was positive that it was there when I changed the oil last spring. I know. I should have changed it last fall for storage, but I didn't. Anyways, no big deal. I proceeded to change the oil anyways. I'd use one of the o rings from one of the top vent screws and replace it later. I have one of those pumps that screw into the bottle of oil. So, I proceed to screw it into the oil container and when I went to screw the nozzle into the motor, there was my o ring. It had came off and stayed on the pump nozzle when I last changed the oil. As you know, this must be a very quick procedure. There's not much time to check things out between removing the pump and installing the screw. So apparently I left the o ring in the drain/fill opening, knew it was there and thought all would be fine. I ran all last year with no o ring on the bottom drain screw. As I said, all looked fine with the oil, so I got lucky. This is probably a rare occurance, but since we're on the subject I thought I'd mention it. Don't leave your o ring in the threaded opening. Take it out and put it on the screw. And while you're at the dealer, buy new o rings each year. They cost pennies each.

[Larry]

DanC

That"s what I call a qualified explanation to the problem of milky oil in the bottom end.....

 

 

Larry

[AzuluSpookd]

Hey guys,

 

I just bought my boat last year, brand new 90 Merc 4 stroke. When I changed the lower end oil in it last fall, it was the EXACT same colour as yours. My immediate response, based on what people had been telling me was that there was water in the oil. When it was brought in this spring, the marine mechanic said, "No worries at all. This is the colour of the oil that the Manufacturer puts in for the first time." Needless to say, after running out on GB quite a few times this year already, I've checked the oil and it is fine. Mechanic was right.

[ilario]

well, chatted with a friend who seems to know his stuff... not to worry, he says... flsuh out the lower end with what ever new, clean oil I can get my hands on, even if it ain't gear oil... as long as i leave the drain open all night, any water should be expelled doing this sort of flush

 

now, should i change the oil filter?

 

thanks again!

 

PP

[boatman]

Flushing the old oil and water out will not solve your problem.

 

The best advice has already been given...replace the o-rings or washers (whcih ever it has) on both drain screws and refill the lower unit oil. Check the oil after running the motor for the next few outings. If everything is ok, then don't worry you are fine.

 

Also, always re-grease the prop shaft after replacing the prop. And please don't run your motor without the prop. You can damage the gears.

[ilario]

Flushing the old oil and water out will not solve your problem.

 

The best advice has already been given...replace the o-rings or washers (whcih ever it has) on both drain screws and refill the lower unit oil. Check the oil after running the motor for the next few outings. If everything is ok, then don't worry you are fine.

 

Also, always re-grease the prop shaft after replacing the prop. And please don't run your motor without the prop. You can damage the gears.

 

 

What I find truly amazing is the amount of discrepency of opinion on how and what to do with anything mechanical...the person who told me to run my motor without a prop was from a marine dealer!!! my friend told me NOT to ngrease the prop shaft!!! then another fellow told me that I'm in a heap of trouble because of the water in the lower unit...

 

So marine grade grease should do the trick, I'll assume? And could you tell me why one shouldn't run the motor w/o the prop?

 

thanks again to all...

[ilario]

oh one more thing... i may have asked this already... what about the oil filter? does that need to be replaced?

 

thanks!

[irishfield]

When you change the oil in your car do you change the oil filter? Same applies here...change the oil, change the filter. If you're me...you then cut the filter open and spread the filter pleats out...get your hands all gooey going thru it inch by inch looking for metal particles, but I'm a tad anal that way considering I work on stuff that falls out of the sky if I miss something.

[danc]

When you change the oil in your car do you change the oil filter?

 

Which reminds me of another story. A few years ago I was going away for a few days so I told Sis to take my truck in for an oil change. I warned her that the oil change places are notorious for trying to sell you other things such as air filters, light bulbs etc. I told her to not let that happen. Just get an oil change only!!! So she goes there. Tells the guy that she wants an oil change. The guy says ok. Oil and filter change only. She says no filter. Just an oil change. The guy says what? Surely you want a new filter. She gets into an argument with the guy and finally leaves without getting the oil change.

 

Gawd I love her. But she's gonna kill me if she sees this tomorrow.

[boatman]

You know what they say about opinions...lol. There is always descrepency. When it comes to my outboards I always error on the side of caution.

 

If you don't grease the prop shaft it can corrode and become one with the prop. You will be very upset if this happens and you need to change the prop. You may even find that the prop is fused so badly that replacing the prop also means replacing the prop shaft $$$.

 

The gear case is designed to run with the constant backpressure of the prop. Without it, you run the risk of gear case run-away where the gears spin too fast and fail. I'm not saying that running a motor in a barrel without a prop will result in failure, but it increases the risk of it.

 

Water in the gearcase is a problem. It can be very serious. Its a problem I would fix immediately. However, you don't yet know where or why it is leaking. The most common source of water in the gearcase is due to bad seals at the oil changing screws. These seals are either o-rings or washers. They are too be replaced EVERYTIME you change the oil. Few people actually do. That's why I suggest replacing them and then running the motor a few times and checking the oil afterwards. Since you don't have any free water in the gearcase so your leak is very minor. Therefore, you have little risk of failure as long as you are diligent in checking the oil. If you find water is still getting in then replace the seals. That is what I would do, but its just an opinion. I'm not a marine tech. Just an enthusiast.

[misfish]

Grease the shaft as like said by BM, it will become as one,or if anything hard to get off,plus it will work it,s way into the bearing some what and it,s all good.. As for the bottom end thing.I went 5 years with my 78 Johnson doing like I said,just changing the oil. If you want to be at ease,get it looked at and fxed.

 

It,s only a little water in some oil.It,s not like your running a 250 or something. JMHO.

[ilario]

i will definitely replace the seals (washers..) in fact, one of the screws didn;t even have a seal! I don;t remember which scew it was as it came out quicly when I loosened it and the oil oil came rusing out

 

 

as for the 'oil filter', apparently, i t doesn;t have one! Is this possible? I went on the i-Boats forum and posted in the Honda section. The one response thus far stated that the motor doesn't have a oil filter, per se.

 

So, I've done everything else, and I will buy the seals tomorrow. I will start it up tonight to see how it runs.

 

thanks again..everyone has been very helful here

[boatman]

I wouldn't know about oil filters. I've never worked on a 4 stroke outboard.

 

The missing o-ring is likely the cause of water coming in. However, you say the oil came rushing out. Is that because you opened the top (vent) screw first and then the lower (fill) screw? You will find it easier and less messy to remove the bottom screw first and re-install it last. If you found that the oil came rushing out after only removing the bottom screw then you have a really bad seal somewhere in the lower unit. The oil should come out very slowly until you open the top vent screw.

[ilario]

I wouldn't know about oil filters. I've never worked on a 4 stroke outboard.

 

The missing o-ring is likely the cause of water coming in. However, you say the oil came rushing out. Is that because you opened the top (vent) screw first and then the lower (fill) screw? You will find it easier and less messy to remove the bottom screw first and re-install it last. If you found that the oil came rushing out after only removing the bottom screw then you have a really bad seal somewhere in the lower unit. The oil should come out very slowly until you open the top vent screw.

 

 

i did remove the top one first, as I recall... but that wasn;t where it came spewing out. It was the engine oil on the other side where there is only the one screw. The engine oil on the 4 strokes is poured in from the dipstick and there;s the one drain screw... it came out really quick, which surprised me. It waqs as dirty as I've seen oil. Very dark brown, gritty, and very unclear. I'm assuming the former owner did not change it the past couple of years. Ypu;re all probably thinking why I bought it. I got it for a good price and it actually runs well in the tank. Starts first crank. I'm not sure if this means it will actualy perform well in real world conditions (i.e. on a lake!) but I took a chance. Motot looks good, otherwise.

 

I will be buying those screws/washers today. Then I will run it in the tank with the prop on(!) for 20 minutes then and I'll check the lower unit oil after doing this. Worse case, I have to get the leak checked into... i still think it was a good deal!

 

thanks!

[ilario]

Oh, one more thing; I put in the new plugs yesterday. I cleaned out the plug holes as best I could with a towel as they were dirty. Should I have sprayed something into them, like a fogging spary? Can I still do so?

 

thanks

[Fisherman]

I'm suspecting by the motor colour,(blue leg) that it may be a 7.5 or 10HP?, then no, it doesn't have an oil filter. If it was my motor, I would seriously take a look at the upper seal by the water pump impeller and the seal behind the prop, thats another place for the water to get into the lower unit. Is it worth the hassle, like they say, you pay now for a couple of gaskets, or later for a set of gears. Your choice.

[ilario]

I'm suspecting by the motor colour,(blue leg) that it may be a 7.5 or 10HP?, then no, it doesn't have an oil filter. If it was my motor, I would seriously take a look at the upper seal by the water pump impeller and the seal behind the prop, thats another place for the water to get into the lower unit. Is it worth the hassle, like they say, you pay now for a couple of gaskets, or later for a set of gears. Your choice.

 

 

Yes, it's a 10 HP. I will try to locate these seals... Should I just replace them now before running it? Maybe I should just run it in a lake for a few outing s then see if the gear oil holds up...'

 

thanks!