Lake Nipissing - walleye spawn

[bushart]

Pretty sure Nippising's walleye numbers are changed little by Spring fishing by 1st Nations--which has occured for time and eternity

 

It would be interesting to know the numbers speared today and say the numbers from the 40' or 50's

 

Likely they're close

 

My point is---Nippising was hit hard from many sides until it broke (commercial and sports angling)--it was the "Go To" place for Southern Ontario for many years

 

Now the big target is what has been consistent for hundreds of years --stands out as unfair as changes had to be made to curb the onslaught that was brought on.

 

Maybe--just maybe---our windows are dirty

[Joeytier]

How many Walleye are harvested by cottagers at night on rivers and lakes where walleyes live and spawn? no one knows but it is likely comparable in many instances, i do not see or hear people complaining about that

I sure do, and I am one of them. It irks me that my license fees are consistently increased while MNR funding decreases...whoever thinks that large scale compliance with fishing regs is the norm is flat out wrong as far as I'm concerned. All the while Native Canadians deem themselves worthy of special limits [i do not mean to generalize, but this is what native communities continue to fight for] in the name of cultural preservation, only to sell it right it back to the 'invasive' European man. I'd be very interested in some statistics as to how many of these fish are used for 'ceremonial purposes'.

 

It is agreed upon by most everyone that the inherent issue is the 'us vs. them' mentality of first nations vs. MNR, but how can you not expect that to persist when you have two wildly different sets of regulations.

[Nipfisher]

Pretty sure Nippising's walleye numbers are changed little by Spring fishing by 1st Nations--which has occured for time and eternity

 

It would be interesting to know the numbers speared today and say the numbers from the 40' or 50's

 

Likely they're close

 

My point is---Nippising was hit hard from many sides until it broke (commercial and sports angling)--it was the "Go To" place for Southern Ontario for many years

 

Now the big target is what has been consistent for hundreds of years --stands out as unfair as changes had to be made to curb the onslaught that was brought on.

 

Maybe--just maybe---our windows are dirty

 

 

Since the 40s and 50s the walleye population and fishery in general has been brought to a shadow of what it once was. Now this has to do with pressure on the fishery. By sport anglers, natives, and environment. So what we take now hyas far more of an impact on the sustainability of the fishery.

[manitoubass2]

Conservation of the resource trumps everything.

 

At least that is what is written in the agreements.

 

But I am not the one to say if the resource is hurting because of the acts of the local Natives

 

 

 

 

[mike rousseau]

Sorry, but there's no way that walleye illegally harvested by the odd cottager amounts to what the natives are doing.

 

I also see the irony of my earlier statement where I talked about the heritage of ours that's being decimated by the netting and spearing.

 

I do agree that native Canadians have every right to net and spear. If it was only for ceremonial purposes and sustenance there'd be no problem, but it's not.

 

When those treaties were signed natives weren't using high tech equipment to harvest hundreds of thousands of pounds of walleye.

They were doing it in a manner that was much more sustainable.

 

There comes a time when enough is enough and regardless of whatever was signed in those ancient treaties, common sense must prevail. If natives reserve the right to adapt their tactics, increase their harvest numbers exponentially all the while utilising modern day methods and techniques, the treaties should be amended accordingly!

 

This entire question brings to mind a joke that somehow seems fitting:

 

 

An Arab enters a taxi..........

 

Once he is seated he asks the cab driver to turn off the radio because he must not hear music as decreed by his religion. In the time of the prophet there was no music, especially western music which is music of the infidel's and certainly no radio.

 

The cab driver politely switches off the radio, stops the cab and opens the back door.

 

The Arab asks him: “What are you doing man?”

 

The cabby answers: “In the time of the prophet there were no taxis, so get out of my taxi and wait for a camel!”

 

 

 

 

Hahahaha....

 

Love it...

[manitoubass2]

and thanks for the added input crosshairs,

 

But I'm going to strongly disagree with you on the topic of identifying walleye gender.

 

And it's not that I'm saying Natives shouldn't target females alone, but under guidelines and the protection of the fishery, neither should be targeted during the spawning period IMO

[blarg]

How many Walleye are harvested by cottagers at night on rivers and lakes where walleyes live and spawn? no one knows but it is likely comparable in many instances, i do not see or hear people complaining about that, the right to fish and hunt for there personal use and cerimonial purposes is in their constitution, from treaties ie the Williams treaty signed many years ago. I have Native Status (Ojibway) and I do buy a fishing licence, as i hope the MNR will use it for the resourse, as all of us do. I do pay taxes as I am an off reserve native, as many of us are. I have no problems with Natives harvesting fish or game for rights stated within their treaty, remember Natives were hear long before the European Settlers, who could in fact be classed as an invasive species.

 

Invasive species...i wont bother to comment, too ridiculous, but you bring up the point about poaching, as did crosshair, but of course all of the native harvest is accounted for, all controlled, and no doubt if someone steps over the line they are 'punished', sure they are. The whole thing is a sham.

[Billy Bob]

Looking at this from A FAR all I can say is Nipissing at one time had a GREAT reputation down here......MANY anglers would drive the 7-8 hours to spend a long weekend or week on Lake Nipissing.......I no longer hear anyone making that trip......why....well the word has been out for some time now that the lake just doesn't produce enough walleyes to make it worth while.....now we have this other lake that was basically in the same shape as Nipissing when Nipissing was producing......it's called Lake Erie.....all the states on this side of the boarder bought out and or banned the gill nets....Lake Erie now produces good catches of walleyes again.....does anyone here see a parallel with these two lakes...

 

My next question to Crosshairs would be, if the walleye fishing completely crashes on Lake Nipissing, do the natives have rights to move on to another lake.......

[glen]

I went ice fishing on Nip and i caught one small walleye for the whole three days. There was five people in my group and they didnt catch any.

[Nipfisher]

I went ice fishing on Nip and i caught one small walleye for the whole three days. There was five people in my group and they didnt catch any.

 

 

There were groups that caught 15-20 walleye per day and 50-100 perch per day. Depends on where you were fishing and if the outfitter (hut owner) was on the fish.

 

 

I am expecting to have an excellent summer of walleye fishing on Nip as I learned a few things last year that should help with my success. Most likly smaller walleye but better #s.

[crosshairs]

Looking at this from A FAR all I can say is Nipissing at one time had a GREAT reputation down here......MANY anglers would drive the 7-8 hours to spend a long weekend or week on Lake Nipissing.......I no longer hear anyone making that trip......why....well the word has been out for some time now that the lake just doesn't produce enough walleyes to make it worth while.....now we have this other lake that was basically in the same shape as Nipissing when Nipissing was producing......it's called Lake Erie.....all the states on this side of the boarder bought out and or banned the gill nets....Lake Erie now produces good catches of walleyes again.....does anyone here see a parallel with these two lakes...

 

My next question to Crosshairs would be, if the walleye fishing completely crashes on Lake Nipissing, do the natives have rights to move on to another lake.......

 

Nipissing FN can hunt and fish anywhere within their treat area and traditional territory. NFN's treaty area is from sault ste marie, north to the water shed, east to ottawa river and south to lake simco. Traditional territory goes as far north as lake nipigon and south to OKA. There is documentation which shows families traditionally using these areas. An example would be Garden River of sault ste marie, could come and set nets in lake nippissing, as with any other FN in the robinson huron treaties. Each treaty has different wording, the williams will be different from the robinsons.

 

NFN has been fishing lake Nippissing for over 9400 years, I don't think they are moving anywhere. If the fishery crashes they are stuck here, outfitters will move on to another location. The first nation has the support from the local municipalities, north bay, west nipissing, st.charles, french river, calandar. Collectively, as one voice they are hoping to get the government to put the money that is needed to properly manage Lake nip in to it. There will be a report written with all the comments etc from the lake nipissing summit held april 3&4 in the comming weeks. Check out the website. www.lakenipissingsummit.ca. I believe all the presentations will also be available on the website. There is a really good by Fred Bellfeuille, on the legal side of things.

 

Commercially NFN can only fish Nipissing, that is where their court case was won. If they were able to prove through the courts that they commercially fished other lakes they could take that approach.

[Nipfisher]

NFN's catch this year was 19989kg and the estimated angler is somewhere around 6000kg. Don't quote my numbers these are off the top of my head.

 

 

 

The commercial harvest target is about 46,000 kg a year according to NFN.

 

 

IF NFN is only actually catching less then 20,000 kgs per year why not drop the target to 30,000. It would "go-over" well with the public. 101 thousand pounds of walleye hurts my ears alot more then 66 thousand pounds.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Nipfisher

[crosshairs]

The commercial harvest target is about 46,000 kg a year according to NFN.

 

 

IF NFN is only actually catching less then 20,000 kgs per year why not drop the target to 30,000. It would "go-over" well with the public. 101 thousand pounds of walleye hurts my ears alot more then 66 thousand pounds.

 

NFN has reduced their quota by 10% twice, So they are around 35000 kgs. They are following some scientifically acceptable model recognized world wide. It dictates what happens in certain circumstances. And I am NOT a biologist, just sharing what info I have. But it has been proven that Traditional Ecological Knowledge is needed by scientist (biologists) to help them do what they do. So people maybe not be biologists but they have alot of knowledge the biologists want.

[manitoubass2]

Crosshairs,

 

Throughout your involvement in the FN commercial fishing and tracking the data has there been any voiced concerns over targeting spawning fish?

 

I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from here. If you harvest fish and promote the protection of the resource (which is paramount), it would make sense to close fishing for the spawning period.

 

I still don't like the method of spearing fish and guessing the gender, but at least the overall numbers are much smaller than netting. But a method where untargeted fish could be safely released would be very respectful towards the fishery.

 

Where I live (RRFN) there isn't a closed season in which I am aware of, even for the walleye spawn. But out of respect for the resource and the creator, you won't find people targeting spawning fish.

 

Anyhow, thanks again for taking your time to contribute to a valid discussion

 

 

 

 

[Billy Bob]

Collectively, as one voice they are hoping to get the government to put the money that is needed to properly manage Lake nip in to it.

 

Getting governments to do the right thing is not always a easy thing to accomplished.....and mind you I don't have the back ground of what the dividing line is with regular Canadian citizens and the Native Canadian citizens...but if it's anything like down here where the natives do NOT contribute in any tax base because they live on the res but then want the benefits from the tax base....well that's a hard sell wouldn't you think....and IMHO that is something that keeps us divided and is a barrier from being united to not only benefit ourselves but also the environment. And many politicians on both side of the issue like it this way.....believe it or not.