Lets have a discusion

[Corey]

I have to agree with Brian.

 

We all need to take into consideration the biggest upcoming threat.

 

POPULATION.

 

Our numbers are steadily growing,

Fishing is gaining more popularity,

I think the opposite is true, there are less and less people fishing these days.

and fish populations may be negatively affected by Climate change.

 

More conservation is required in areas threatened by high usage.

Once again, tell me how the shortened ice fishing season has hurt fish populations? The majority of fish taken from Simcoe is during ice fishing season.

 

I think you post is entirely backwards.

 

cd.

[misfish]

Maybe check out the docks and marinas that surround Simcoe, before stating what you did. Yes the ice season makes it more exccessable sp?,but there are many that fish the shore lines and docks and marinas during the spring.summer and fall months.

[misfish]

Once again, tell me how the shortened ice fishing season has hurt fish populations? The majority of fish taken from Simcoe is during ice fishing season.

 

I believe I said HELPPED the population.

[camillj]

Well I love to eat fish ...having said that ... I think if any limits were to change I would focus on two areas ... the commercial limits ... and as has already been argued, the total catch limits - no matter how you slice it anyone catching 20 fish in a day is messing harshly with the fishery - PERIOD - granted not all fisheries are equal so maybe the catch limit isnt the same as the keep limit ... but it shouldnt be unlimited ... anway frankly the REAL problems of habitat and spawing ground degradation arent going to get solved just by MNR or sportfishing regs so we are treating a symptom not the disease .... and thats all I have to say about that

[Terry]

I guess you have not seen the 100s of boats out fishing whitefish and and perch late fall there were large groups of boats and the first week of Jan I couldn't believe how many boats were out fishing, I was one of them........

[icedude]

thoughtful thread--not my nature to be so agreeable ..but for Lady Simcoe me thinks Tony B's numbers are top dead centre--herring returned-Ling Fling till your hearts content-voluntarily release unclipped wild lake trout and white fish-all indications are that Simcoe can support these numbers

 

Cheers

 

ID1

[Gary George]

Cannuck2fan your assuming a fair bit there about me and all fisherpersons who practice catch and release.

 

Sorry if my opinions and observations don't fit with your view.

 

The Bighead has one of the longest histories in Ontario with Rainbow Trout. It's wilder, healthier and colder than the Ganaraska.

It recieves less overall pressure during spring spawning periods but does have a fall season. It's not unusual to fish runs and pools here alone all day.

 

The Ganaraska is probably the most popular "lightliner" destination in southern Ontario yet it has an absolutely huge run each year. Catch and release is the norm here. It is urban, used for many other things, runs thru farm country and has very questionable water quality. A day on the Ganaraska generally is like a carnival with so many people.

 

Neither river benefits from any current stocking programs that I'm aware of.

 

To what do you attribute the lower fish numbers to in the Bighead if it's not harvest?

 

What would you say the huge numbers of fish in the Ganaraska are the result of?

 

Why are popular northern cleaner rivers less able to support large runs of trout and conversely polluted, much trampled urban rivers able to crank out huge numbers of fish?

 

Oh and by the way anybody who can claim a Carp puts up more fight than a Rainbow can't possibly have actually caught a fall Steelhead.

 

In terms of catch limits I have been told by COs that the catching and releasing fish is factored into limits it's just that its near impossible to enforce. So it comes down to personal ethics and education. Reality is that very few guys actually catch, handle and release much more than a few fish on any given outing. Sure there are a few but it's really a small number compared to how many actually float fish / "lightline" for trout.

 

I fished the Gany for ages and with literally hundreds, even thousands of guys out for opening the number of dead floaters and stringered fish was never notable. I have seen very few dead fish in the tributaries I have fished and when I did there was never any certainty that they died of any one cause. That would required much more than observation to be sure.

 

If I sounded pretty certain of myself it might have something to do with 25 plus years of Steelhead experiences. I prefer to believe what I have experienced rather than what I'm told.

Edited April 21, 2007 by RivrRat

[Fisherman]

Oh and by the way anybody who can claim a Carp puts up more fight than a Rainbow can't possibly have actually caught a fall Steelhead.

Well I for one beg to differ, I would believe the average 10lb Carp would turn your 13' noodle rod into something like broken uncooked spagetti. We had a 10lb carp pull a 12' cartopper up the river with not too much effort.

[Hookset]

Carp to Steelhead = Bulldog to a Greyhound. Can't compare 'em. Totally different fish and fight so how bout we say they are both a hoot to catch

[Canuck2fan]

Cannuck2fan your assuming a fair bit there about me and all fisherpersons who practice catch and release.

 

Sorry if my opinions and observations don't fit with your view.

 

No need to be sorry, you have your thoughts and I have mine. I think in our own way we each care about the fishery, and want it sustainable. We will probably never agree on how to get there....

 

If I read what you have been saying in your posts about fishing during "extended season" which is before spawning occurs you seem to be saying that any angler who practices C and R is great and good for the fishery. On the other hand meat takers hurt the fishery because they take fish out. I see it this way plain and simple a C and R guy catching upwards of 10 to 15 fish an outing and putting them through the stress of being caught and released has to have a negative effect on the reproductive rate of those fish. Whereas, the dreaded meat taker who follows the law has to leave after taking 2 fish, and can't come back until they are out of their possesion. Now the C and R angler can come back that very afternoon and do it all over again..... and some do I have seen them at it.

 

I realize that having "C and R" limits would never be enforcable by the MNR only "peer" pressure could do that. One thing having such a limit might do though is cut down on the overall pressure on the fishery because I am willing to bet a lot of C and Rer's would be staying home a lot more if they knew they couldn't tire out, release and possibly kill more than 2 fish during an outing in the "extended" season....

[Gary George]

I never mentioned anything about fishing "extended season" or pre spawn fish. I never said anything at all about numbers of fish caught or numbers kept. I just said that your assuming a fair bit about my tactics. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

Your questioning the ethics of an entire group of fisherpersons yet you use the word "some" when describing the abusers. That same "some" are present among the food fisherpersons. Thats an enforcement issue, the "some" who abuse.

 

I don't see food fishing as wrong, I do it a lot with certain species. I'm just trying to make the point that taking fish is certainly negative as the fish is gone as opposed to catch and release which may remove fish but probably doesn't in most cases.

 

Catch and Release sections and periods are a common tool of fisheries managers, the beleive it works.

 

Slot limits work, are we all agreed?

 

Catch and release is integral to slot limits being functional, next step in protection is close the fishery period.

 

Catch limits are the first line of protection followed by enhancement (habitat and stocking programs) and then slot limits. The final level of protection applied is sanctuary.

 

I think that this represents a fair assessment of the MNR approach to protection of species so catch and release appears to be an acceptable method by those standards. We could debate MNR ethics and standards but thats kind of moot since they are the final authority.

 

On the matter of 10 lbs Carp busting my Float Rod, none have yet. Niether has any of the nearing 20 lbs Steelhead / Rainbows I've landed with this rod. I suppose if your buying off the rack, off shore factory built "noodle rods" you may be experiencing this kind of breakeage. My ancient Loomis hand built seems to enjoy heavy fast fish.

 

One of those fish ran nearly the entire distance from the hydro station to Lewiston Bridge on the Niagara and my "fragile" Float Road and weird Center Pin reel brought it back and landed it. The fish was every bit of 17 lbs and it was October.

 

I have heard since the beggining how my "noodle rod" is weak, bad for fish and interferes with others ability to fish the nearby water. It's always from folks who don't actually have any experience with the technique or the gear involved.

[ehg]

Let's not get started with the Atlantic salmon

 

for Simcoe...

Perch 50(25)- Fine where it is...

Crappie - No Limit, they compete with Perch for food, lets protect the World Class perch fishery on Simcoe, people can go elsewhere for Crappie...

Pike - 2, 4 what's the difference...majority release Pike anyway.

lakers 2 - Fine where it is...

White fish 2 - Fine where it is...

Walleye - There's walleye in the lake?? hehe

Bass - 5 is fine...do people actually eat bass?

 

That sounds about right for most lakes not just Simcoe.. Most fish are caught by anglers who practice catch and release.

 

After having spoke to someone who works for the liberals in Ontario they mentioned

that a paltry less than 1% of money from licenses goes back into the fishery.

 

More money for fishery management and stocking would go a long way to improving our waterways,

especially stocking of trout and salmon into Great Lakes. Not relying on this new 'successfully spawning' buzz.

 

Walleye are by far the most kept fish. Slot sizes and limits of four fish would help that species.

 

As well if there is a problem in area with low fish pop. it's not 'meat fishermen' or 'internet lurkers',

(who seem get the resentful blame), but the lack of money to MNR to properly manage said fishery,

that is creating a poor situation.

 

cheers,

 

ehg

Edited April 21, 2007 by ehg

[snag]

I think the opposite is true, there are less and less people fishing these days.

 

Once again, tell me how the shortened ice fishing season has hurt fish populations? The majority of fish taken from Simcoe is during ice fishing season.

 

I think you post is entirely backwards.

 

cd.

 

Corey,

 

In respose to your reply.

 

Here is why I know POPULATION will have an affect on Lake Simcoe and other fisheries

 

1. There are more people fishing in Ontario and Lake Simcoe today. I find it odd that that is not obvious.

In my line of work our company did a study of local demographics and population growth.

We follow the trends that are monitored by our main competitors (mostly big box stores)

I had to plow through papers of why Bass pro (1 store for now) and Walmart decided to open store(s) across Ontario. (There are other stores but you'll see where I'm going)

 

These stores only open for 2 reason.

1. An existing population density to support sales

2. Expected population growth through rapid urbanization to support sales

 

Walmart is particularily interesting because they sponsor many fishing events in the U.S.

The fact that they dedicate a fishing area in their highly calculated and valuable floor space should be indicative of some serious research into the viability of the sports economic return.

 

Do a short google search on recreational fishing pressure in Ontario and you will not find the opposite is true.

 

In addition, population is increasing in Ontario. Barrie is one of the fastest growth areas due to it's proximity to Toronto and Cottage country. It's real estate is still affordable and it's transportation route is ideal.

 

Please let me know why you believe that less people are fishing.

 

Here is a quote from THE LAKE SIMCOE REGION CONSERVATION AUTHORITY study:

What is the problem? Impacts associated with continued urbanization and changes in rural land use activities within the Lake Simcoe watershed have been contributing an excessive amount of sediment and nutrients (especially phosphorus) into Lake Simcoe. These activities have contributed to a significant change in the ecosytem health – the lake no longer supports a self--sustaining coldwater fishery, excessive amounts of aquatic plants are choking local beaches, marinas and waterfronts properties and the recreational industry is being threatened.

Here is the link: Simcoe region CA

 

Here is another quote by the Lake Simcoe Fisheries Assessment Unit (LSFAU) that adds itself to the above and your second comment:

 

Why is there a lake trout natural reproduction problem?

 

Natural recruitment failure affects a number of coldwater fish species in Lake Simcoe. Lake trout, lake whitefish and lake herring populations have all suffered drastically such that lake herring are now virtually gone from the lake while lake trout and lake whitefish populations are being maintained only through fish stocking.

 

The problem stems from excessive nutrient loading into Lake Simcoe, which in turn, is adversely affecting the habitat of the coldwater fish species. Efforts to combat this problem are coordinated through the Lake Simcoe Environmental Management Strategy (LSEMS). LSEMS is a multi-agency partnership whose goal is to protect, maintain and improve the health of the Lake Simcoe ecosystem by reducing nutrient loading and restoring a naturally reproducing coldwater fishery.

 

 

 

2. Ice fishing? neither Brian or I mentioned it in the original thread

 

The quote above also caters to the reply you gave.

Most of the fish species (whites, trout) that are being harvested are stocked, otherwise, they would not exist with the current fishing pressure and environmental degredation.

 

In addition, could you provide information that concludes that the majority of fish are taken during ice-fishing?

 

 

I have more to say but work calls.

 

Brian is talking about Conservation through PREVENTION.

 

And I agree with him.

[misfish]

lake herring are now virtually gone from the lake while lake trout and lake whitefish populations are being maintained only through fish stocking.

 

As far as the herring go,they are on a great rebound. All you have to do is head out in june and you will see them in large numbers on your screen. I dont know how many I caught the last couple of years,They are coming back,will they come back in huge numbers like in the 70,s/80,s? Only time will tell,but the closing of them,seems to be working.

 

Cutting back on limits will allow for the future.

 

[snag]

As far as the herring go,they are on a great rebound. All you have to do is head out in june and you will see them in large numbers on your screen. I dont know how many I caught the last couple of years,They are coming back,will they come back in huge numbers like in the 70,s/80,s? Only time will tell,but the closing of them,seems to be working.

 

Cutting back on limits will allow for the future.

 

 

That's great news.

 

Backs your original point.

[snag]

This was from an article in the NATIONAL POST June 2005

 

I wonder how things turned out? anyone know?

 

 

Simcoe activists fear builders will leapfrog Greenbelt One proposed subdivision would be home to 70,000 new residents

By Melissa Leong

 

 

Bob Eisenberg, chairman of the Rescue Lake Simcoe Coalition, said the lake's health has been declining and is vulnerable. He said uncontrolled growth has caused excess phosphorus in the lake. This results in weed and algae growth, which sucks the oxygen from the water -- threatening wildlife and the recreational industry.

 

"The lake is in danger of dying," he said. "If the developments on the board go through, you can kiss Lake Simcoe goodbye."

 

The groups are revealing the results of a public opinion poll today that says 61% of the Simcoe County residents surveyed agreed that poorly planned development is the main reason for the declining health of Lake Simcoe.

 

Of the 501 people surveyed by OraclePoll, 78% said urban development should be directed away from important water sources.

 

"Cottage owners [and] people in the watershed are avoiding using phosphorous-based fertilizers. We who live on the shore build our docks in order not to disturb fish habitats," Mr. Eisenberg said.

 

He said for developers to come in and make large-scale changes to the shoreline while residents work to protect the area "just seems out of whack."

 

 

Count Floyd says "Oooooo, very scary kids, Arooooooooooooooooooo"

 

Seriously though, this never works out good for the Lake.