Outdoorsman Protest

[bigugli]

So we have all this discussion about safeguards to fisheries being removed, and the MNR being gutted, yet again.

As a few have mentioned it has to be made an issue. For that to happen, Queen's Park and the media needs to see a crowd of unhappy people at the doorstep before they take notice. Do we have what it takes here at OFC to make such a thing happen?

Letters to editors get buried. Letters to MPs and MPPs get ignored.

Besides burying our heads in the sand, what other alternatives do we have?

We have members from numerous different clubs, organizations and angler communities here to reach out to their groups to put more pressure to bear.

Edited March 29, 2012 by bigugli

[jedimaster]

What exactly are you trying to protest at Queens Park? Queens Park is Provincial, and thus in the hand of the Liberals in the hands of a minority govt. The next election barring a quick out is not for several years. I don't think the ontario liberals want to push for an election, not with the results of the last federal election so close at hand.

 

I am all for a good protest and would certainly be willing to participate. Or even make a webpage for to distribute information. But the T's need to be crossed first before I could pledge my involvement.

 

All fo the latest aingst has been directed quarely at the Conservatives so marching on the door step of the lib's may not be the best message.

[GBW]

your best bet is to make a call to Ont. Fed. of Hunters & Anglers for help here.

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

your best bet is to make a call to Ont. Fed. of Hunters & Anglers for help here.

 

 

the trouble with ofah is that they have become a toothless organization IMO.

[Djeep]

Something should be done. This is bad news for environmental students such as myself. In high schools just 5-10 years ago all the teachers toted the environment studies as a lead into a growing job opportunity. Yeah Right If enough awareness is raised perhaps we could be heard.

[GBW]

the trouble with ofah is that they have become a toothless organization IMO.

I thought I had it backwards, LOL! yes they have but it's a better call then no call at all.

[Rod Caster]

Something should be done. This is bad news for environmental students such as myself. In high schools just 5-10 years ago all the teachers toted the environment studies as a lead into a growing job opportunity. Yeah Right If enough awareness is raised perhaps we could be heard.

 

 

Yup, that's one of the biggest issues at hand. Rally your fellow students around this! Otherwise your environmental expertise will be made useless and redundant in no time.

 

Changes like this do not create jobs, they just shift them to one side or the other; in the MNR's case, makes them disapear altogether.... as if the environment needs less representation.

[jedimaster]

Don't forget the MNR is provincial and not federal.

Since 2007 under the liberal government the MNR budget has gone down from 744 million dollars to 620 million dollars.

[Rod Caster]

Don't forget the MNR is provincial and not federal.

Since 2007 under the liberal government the MNR budget has gone down from 744 million dollars to 620 million dollars.

 

ok, stop waving your flag.

 

You already said this "Queens Park is Provincial, and thus in the hand of the Liberals in the hands of a minority govt. " Your point has been made.

 

I'm against cutting environmental jobs and considerations. I dont' care who does it.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Rod Caster

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

the cuts have been deep since the 80's and have come from all political folds. each political party is responsible, however at the moment it's the liberals who are doing nothing to fix the problem and appear to be geared to make it worse.

[jedimaster]

So what is this thread about? Stomping queens park for the mnr or ottawa for the changes to the fisheries act? Someone get the plan worked out. The mnr bbudget always goes up the first year of an election and down the following years. Its just a cycle. Its just getting very very low of late. Ndp, pc and libs have all raised and cut mnr funding.

[bigugli]

The point I am making is simple. The MNR is supposed to manage our resources, and also represent our resource interests with the DFO. The MNR has been continually gutted over the past 3 decades, thus they are less and less capable of fulfilling the mandate. Why else do you think CO's have almost become an endangered species.

 

Put simply it comes to this. We argue in circles, then meekly and quietly accept the losses, over and over again. Personally I think it's time to stand up and act or be quiet. We cannot always wait for a brave single individual to do all our fighting for us.

[bigugli]

the trouble with ofah is that they have become a toothless organization IMO.

The OFAH is very careful about the fights they pick. They specialize more as a lobby group and stay out of open fights with government. In the 2 fights over resource management I have been a part of, the OFAH was advised and kept informed, but all the OFAH did was sit quietly and observe.

 

All the same, I asked the same question of the OFAH. Do we stand up or cower?

[jedimaster]

The point I am making is simple. The MNR is supposed to manage our resources, and also represent our resource interests with the DFO. The MNR has been continually gutted over the past 3 decades, thus they are less and less capable of fulfilling the mandate. Why else do you think CO's have almost become an endangered species.

 

Put simply it comes to this. We argue in circles, then meekly and quietly accept the losses, over and over again. Personally I think it's time to stand up and act or be quiet. We cannot always wait for a brave single individual to do all our fighting for us.

 

Agreed but one must stand and rise so the rest can follow. Look at how many people have stood against the Gun Registry and how long that battle has been going on for. It would be a very difficult if not impossible fight to try and get the MnR funding back to old days.

 

I am not nearly in the loop enough on what the MnR does with there share of the kitty to make any informed decision on weather or not they actually need more. I can say this, I have never seen a single govt organization crown or public operate efficiently without fat. I am fairly certain the MnR is no different. I think the Lib's called this round of budget cuts "Do more with Less" or something like that.

 

How much more does the MnR need? 100 million, 200 million? a billion? I have no idea. How many CO's do they need per capita? I dunno. I doubt a brinks truck full of toonies would do much.

[bigugli]

Judging by the deafening silence, I gather Ontario anglers prefer to cower.

[radar]

Bigugli I'm with ya. I don't care if its just you and me. Let's pick a day and spread the word!

 

So what are the key points that need to made?

 

1) The COs have all but disappeared.

2) The MNR's mandate is based off of Resource Management based on scientific research. DJeep make s a great point there about cutbacks affecting research quality. (As a point on this, this is becoming a trademark slogan in Public Service (I know I work in it). Multiple Ministries are now stating they are providing service based on research - only they are not supporting research or they are cherrypicking research with less cost impact.)

3) Are there specific - quantifiable examples we could provide about "These cuts have resulted in this X". This needs to be kept real simple to get a message across.

 

 

 

• Jedi I know you are worried from a taxpayer/value perspective, but you offered a website. Still interested?
  
• Djeep can you get some actual facts of the deterioration of the research which would lead to poor MNR results? could you help mobilize (or at least psread the word to) a student population (are there groups clubs, organizations?)
  
• Is there a media/marketing person on line who can help structure a some strategies?
  
• Are there people online who could champion a social networking blitz?
  

If every person on this board who visits another site could carry this message to every message board in Ontario - imagine the coverage for that. Hunting, fishing, canoeing, hiking, whatever kinda boards.

 

Contact OFAH anyway.

I am an OPSEU boy ( who believes OPSEU must play a viatl role in financial accountability to taxpayer), I'm sure I could find a disgruntled MNR employee or 2 who could provide some real input as to how bad it really is for them. What is really preventing them from putting feet on the ground to make a difference.

 

Any other ideas?

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

much of the field work is now done by students. resource technician jobs have become stepping stones for recent bio grads.

supervisors are making a killing and racking up MONSTROUS pensions on the backs of a contract/student based work force.

and all the while soo college and sir sanford fleming just keep on taking kids money and pumping about grads into a dead field.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus

[radar]

Dr. Sal you too have obviously educated yourself and formulated opinions. Surely you have something to contribute. Factual data? Research studies.

Please respect Bigugli's original post about trying to mobilize about MNR not against college pensions.

[Oggie]

much of the field work is now done by students. resource technician jobs have become stepping stones for recent bio grads.

supervisors are making a killing and racking up MONSTROUS pensions on the backs of a contract/student based work force.

and all the while soo college and sir sanford fleming just keep on taking kids money and pumping about grads into a dead field.

 

That about sums it up! I've heard the cutbacks are brutal but the situation is complicated by the allocating of funds to desk jobs rather than field work. The money is there is many cases but the priorities are not what they should be to accomplish effective management.

 

Is it true that the funds from licenses, tags, etc are the primary source of funding for the MNR? The treasurery contributes very little funding beyond what the users pay?

 

 

It'll take a Walkerton-like situation to stop the demise of the MNR.

Dan O.