Guest Johnny Bass Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Well, Getting ready for another fishing season. I have been peeking at the GTA pike photos and they have me all pumped! Have to take the trailer off the blocks, install the batteries, spool the reels and I am good to go. Though I forgot to change the spark plugs. Should I make the engine burn off the fogging first and then replace the spark plugs? I thought I'd mention, I have a heavy duty trailer(for carrying wood/soil,ect) to sell for dirt cheap if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 How old is the motor and how long has the plugs been in? If the motor is 98 or above you should not need to change the plugs as often due to the high output of the coils. If the unit is older then change them after you burn the fog out of it. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatman Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 How old are your plugs? There is no reason to change them unless you start experiencing ignition problems or they are really old. Changing plugs every year is overkill. Its like throwing away your fishing reel just because the season is over. Just keep an extra set of plugs in the boat with a plug wrench in case of emergency. If you are bent on changing them then do it after you burn off the fogging oil. If you don't change them, just make sure they are clean after you have burned off the oil. Like everything, you should inspect your plugs periodically. However, if you aren't getting good spark you'll know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Bass Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Thanks for the quick replies. The engine is either a 2001 or 2003. I have had it for 2 years and haven't changed the plugs. I dont know how old the plugs are but the boat starts up with ease. I guess I will stick with the old ones. Thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 How old are your plugs? There is no reason to change them unless you start experiencing ignition problems or they are really old. Changing plugs every year is overkill. Its like throwing away your fishing reel just because the season is over. Just keep an extra set of plugs in the boat with a plug wrench in case of emergency. If you are bent on changing them then do it after you burn off the fogging oil. If you don't change them, just make sure they are clean after you have burned off the oil. Like everything, you should inspect your plugs periodically. However, if you aren't getting good spark you'll know it. I like to refer to changing my spark plugs every year as preventive maintainence... the same as changing the oil and filter (4 stroke), changing the fuel filter, changing the lower unit lube, and greasing all the lube points... but hey!... that's prolly just me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Spark plugs last much longer in newer engines for a few reasons. Better quality oils, better fuel control(leaner mixtures) closer tolerances. Gasoline can create a coating on the ceramic at the tip over time that is a conductor of electricity. When the spark finds an easier path rather than jumping the gap it travels this coating. This coating is not always visible. If your type of spark plug is inexpensive and easy to change why not do it? Try changing plugs on a rough day with a t-storm approaching out on the water. Not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Bass Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) Again, thanks for the replies. The boat came with 3 spare spark plugs and a spark plug changing kit. I think I will wait one more season and then change them. When I do, I will get good quality ones. The engine still starts up with ease. And I think Nippissing has a point. If you frequent large bodies of water it would be wise to change your plugs every year. Edited April 2, 2007 by Johnny Bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawg_hauler Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Two stroke that has been fogged, change every year. Direct injection outboards, I would say it would be safe to change every three to five years as long as it hasn't been fogged (the old fashion way). Four stroke engines would probably permit the same three to five year stretch to keep with routine maintenance. One thing that really gets overlooked during spring start ups is replacing the water pump. This little piece of rubber is the heart of your engine and is really inexpensive. Impellars run about $45 and most marinas can change them in a hour. It can make for enjoyable boating season or end it really early and leave you with a very expensive anchor. Sorry didn't mean to get off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garyv Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 (edited) A simple thing I do on my 2 stroke is burn off the fogging oil, pull the plugs and spray starting ether on the electrode ( do NOT spray in the combustion chamber on 2 stroke engines ), hit them with the air gun to blow off any excess oil and dry them at the same time and reinstall. If the are not preforming correctly then replace. For what it's worth I do the same thing if trolling with the 2 stroke for hours on end when I get the boat home. Edited April 3, 2007 by Garyv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishboy Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I keep an old set of plugs that I use for the spring "burn-off". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b2kptbo Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 keep an old set of plugs that I use for the spring "burn-off". Thats a good idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Welcome back Johnny Bass! It must be spring when Johnny B makes his way back here! HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyman Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Spark plugs last much longer in newer engines for a few reasons. Better quality oils, better fuel control(leaner mixtures) closer tolerances. Gasoline can create a coating on the ceramic at the tip over time that is a conductor of electricity. When the spark finds an easier path rather than jumping the gap it travels this coating. This coating is not always visible. If your type of spark plug is inexpensive and easy to change why not do it? Try changing plugs on a rough day with a t-storm approaching out on the water. Not fun. Not trying to start anything here, but I sell performance parts for a living and in my estimation engine oils are getting worse not better. Many of the protective elements (or ingredients if you like) contained in oil have been being slowly removed due to emissions laws. The biggest impact to engine wear is the EPA’s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils. This apparently is causing premature wear not to mention reduction in engine efficiency,gas mileage etc. I guess it's a double edged sword. In my business we see it mostly in the premature valvetrain wear and/or failure of flat tappet hydraulic or solid lifter cams (can make a REALLY big mess). Now, Shell Rotella T and a couple other oils are being recommended by camshaft manufacturers because it still has a very high amount of zinc in it. The key is they're deisel oils and only have to meet limited emission standards compared to most passenger cars. Let's face it, they really need the protection with the loads they're under. I use Shell Rotella T in my truck and I have ALOT of customers doing the same. Anyway,just thought I'd pass that info on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Hi Kennyman. Im at the other end of the line. I repair engines and work on them everyday for a living, 4 stroke and 2 stroke. Quality engine oils are heads and tails better than they used to be. Now I do stress quality oils (If an engine is taken apart for any reason you can distinguish if the customer is using quality oils or not.) I dont know how far back you go but in the past a valve job was almost a part of a tune up. A customer that does regular oil changes using quality oils and filters will have little or no engine lubrication issue ever during the lifetime of the engine. 2 stroke oils used to leave carbon residues on pistons and rings that eventually would sieze the rings causing piston and cylinder scuffing. Quality oils will lube better and leave less buildup along with less environmental damage. There is a reason why manufacturers want you to use their brand. Not only do they not like warranty claims but they want happy customers. I wont dispute the fact they also want to sell you their product. The only engine issues I have had in the last 3 years in the automotive end of it were cooling system leaks into the engine oil sump on GM engines. On 2 strokes the major engine problems are created with restricted main jets which lean the mixtures enough to burn holes in the top of the piston and leaking crankshaft seals. This past winter we sold 90 rotax equipped ski doos and not one engine warranty claim. This is a big change from the past history. Sorry this off topic but I felt a response was in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyman Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Okay, I agree to a point Nippissing......... if you're talking about Royal Purple,Mobil,Amsoil synthetics or Joe Gibbs racing oil (relatively new on the market and becoming very popular with oval track racers everywhere). You have to watch what you buy I guess. Even all synthetics are not created equal.Here is a quote from an article I read "There are no PAO (polyalphaolefin) synthetic molecules in Castrol Syntec, yet because of legal finagling with the definition of synthesized motor oils they can legally be called synthetic. Basically, they changed the definition of a synthetic to fit the process of highly refining a petroleum base oil, called hydrocracking and fought with Mobil and the National Advertising Council to loosen the definition of a synthetic". HMMMM. Seems like a typical marketing ploy overcoming a technical process. It's hard to tell what's even on the shelf these days. I know oils have to evolve and it seems like right now we're in one of those down cycles where the limitations and regulations put into place have caught the oil companies off guard and as of yet maybe it's not profitable enough to replace the zinc phosphorous compounds (anti wear agents) with something equivalent. I also know that there are some definite issues associated with the low zinc phosphorous oils in high performance or heavy load applications. I'm assuming that's why cam manufacturers such as Competition Cams specifically reccomend high zinc oils like a Shell Rotella T when before they would just recommend a grade. Heres a quote I just found on a Joe Gibbs website. He might know a thing or two. "As stated in the book "Lubrication Fundamentals","In heavily loaded applications (i.e. racing engines), flat tappet cam followers operate on partial oil films at least part of the time. Lubricants with anti-wear additives are necessary if rapid wear and surface distress are to be avoided. The oil additive Zinc Dithiophosphate is to provide anti-wear activity for the camshaft and lifters. With the increased use of roller follower cams (in production cars), the requirements for anti-wear have been changed to prolong the life of emission control devices.. So IMHO todays everyday off the shelf oils (especially standard mineral oils) are worse (for the time being) but engine failures are less because the engine technology is getting better. All I'm suggesting is using a high grade oil and in a standard mineral oil there are a few that seem to offer more protection because of the inclusion of these phosphorous zinc compounds. Not only that but I have many truckers,fleet owners etc. that put alot of miles on with these reasonably priced deisel oils and they seem to offer protection under a ton of load,stress,etc. Either that or IMO use a very high quality synthetic. I'm not a chemist or an expert, I just see what has been happening in the last few years in our industry and have been explained to by so-called experts at least part of the reason why it is happening.I'm not sure the big auto companies want you to have the perfect oil anyway. It would certainly cost them alot of money! I also draw a comparison between high performance applications and most marine engines because they both are pushed quite hard,get relatively low miles or hours on them and usually pretty well maintained because of the costs involved in not doing so. Anyway,I'm just offering an observation and opinion for comparison. Sorry I'm so far off the original topic,but I also had to respond. Thanks actually. It got me thinking tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawg_hauler Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 This past winter we sold 90 rotax equipped ski doos and not one engine warranty claim. You sold 90 Rotax equipped ski doos without a single engine warranty claim, I think your fibbing. Oils may be getting better but Rotax hasn't (Okay, maybe a tiny bit). You should contact BRP they might have a reward for your dealership.LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 You sold 90 Rotax equipped ski doos without a single engine warranty claim, I think your fibbing. Oils may be getting better but Rotax hasn't (Okay, maybe a tiny bit). You should contact BRP they might have a reward for your dealership.LOL Those that know me dont call me a liar Seriously..No claims on engines . O, and by the way, We have been "regional dealers of the year award" several times and for the last 2 consecutive years. Kennyman.We could argue this some more some day and I think we could come to a conclusion at some point..But my fingertips would start to hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyman Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Those that know me dont call me a liar Seriously..No claims on engines . O, and by the way, We have been "regional dealers of the year award" several times and for the last 2 consecutive years. Kennyman.We could argue this some more some day and I think we could come to a conclusion at some point..But my fingertips would start to hurt. I really didn't want to argue, just talk anyway. This is a forum isn't it. Websters definition of forum "b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas". I actually enjoyed the chat. If we can't talk civilly to eachother we shouldn't be here,right? It got me thinking. Thanks Nippissing. Again,I'm going to apologize to Johnny Bass for trouncing all over his post. Sorry bud. I just started babbling and once I get started . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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