Nipissing Walleye???

[Headhunter]

Perhaps the other stakeholders on the lake hire a Biologist, do some assement,promote catch and release, follow the slot rules. There only argument is completly stop the Native Fishery or screw the slot the fish are all going to be netted anyway. I don't see this atitude in anyway helping, at least the NFN is on the right track by managing it's take from the lake and doing everything possible to keep the fishery sustainable.If the tourist operators rely so much on the fishery perhaps it's time they also took a stand on managing the resource.

I agree with much that you have said here... but the rules that must be followed by resorts and in turn, their customers are on a completely difference playing field, than the NFN. We are talking about one group, that is essentially a federal concern and another that is almost entirely a provincial concern. Let's face it, those two distinct groups have a difficult time agreeing on anything, much less a powder keg situation as native rights and historical treaties.

Bernie, thanks for the insight into the past, they say that we should, as thinking animals, use the past as a learning tool, but I find that human nature is to only concern ourselves with today...

Looking forward to more discussion/input with Crosshair!

HH

Edited March 9, 2011 by Headhunter

[GBW]

this has been a very good read so far. a few things posted that have no value but that happens no matter what.

[crosshairs]

I agree that this is a very good discussion, and everyone has an opinion. You have to respect people who stand up for what they beleive in whether they are right or wrong, they have the kahoonies to do so.

 

Please remember this is just my take on what I see, the opinions expressed are not those of the First Nation.

 

The lake has always been on up and down cycles, up until recently the spawning stocks have been increasing for the past 13 years. Then wamm last year and this year a sharp decline in spawning stock. What caused this??? Early ice out last year allowed for a longer spearing season, since the opening of the fish market perhaps more anglers feel the need to keep those slot size(remarks I have heard at sons hockey games, tim hortons), environmental changes? Personnally I feel we are naturally in a down cycle, but the other factors listed each had it's own little part to play.

 

In past Years the First Nation sat on stuartship councils and the likes but just like on the internet people can only take so much finger pointing, then you realize it is hopeless to try and participate. So the answer to your question HeadHunter about relationships with other shareholders is basically the same as it always has been the "us and them" mentallity.

 

The First Nation has been left out of the game from the beginning. Not just in Fisheries but forestry and mining and all Natural Resources. The First Nation's have been involved in all parts of these industries, but when government decideds to regulate and make management plans First Nations are left out of the equations. Please bare with me I am going somewhere with this. I'll stick with the lake issue, how can one of the biggest users of the lake be ignored when trying to create a sustainable plan? Of course sustainability is going to be questioned their plans were for anglers and forgot to include The First Nation.

 

First Nation people used to guide for bear hunting, then came bear management units now all areas are given to tourist operators. Again the First Nation has no place to continue or participate in their guiding activities. This is why the "us and them" mentallity still exists. And I can't see this disappearing anytime soon, the only economic return the first nation see's from the lake is the commercial fishing. If a first nation member wanted to build a tourist camp, it would be hard as we can't get loans/mortgages to build anything on reserve because banks cannot reposes anything on the First nation.

 

Anyhow, the First nation I think is worried about lake nipissing,their own fishery, and the protection of their treaty rights not the tourist outfitters.

[crosshairs]

Suggestions to OMNR's approach, well here are a few I personnaly feel couldn't hurt.(and don't bite my head off please these are just my thoughts)

 

1. Work with the First Nation istead of distancing themselves.

2. Help train their fisheries officers to be full fledged CO's

3. They need to get a better handle on #'s of anglers and Fish being caught

4. Limit the amount of ice shacks allowed/or none at all

5. Negotiate with the First nation,eg. every 2nd year lake is closed all winter in exchange for no spearing or maybe no netting that same year.

6. Have a fee for commercial ice huts and that money be put into lake nipissing eg(100 commercial huts x $500 = $50,000)lol almost the mnrs budget

for the lake.

 

The OMNR just needs to start thinking outside the box and get a little creative. I think the omnr legal expertise needs to ease up and let the grassroots people do some ground breaking work.

 

If my First Nation (who fought court battles for fishing, fist fights with wardens, constant finger pointing) can get together and be where they are at with Fisheries management, I'm sure all people around lake nipissing can get through some personal battles and do what is right for the lake.

 

I'll try and get on here tommorrow for a little bit again. again Thank you all for having open minds and being curious about this very sometimes heated topic. Have a good evening everyone.

[aplumma]

Suggestions to OMNR's approach, well here are a few I personnaly feel couldn't hurt.(and don't bite my head off please these are just my thoughts)

 

1. Work with the First Nation istead of distancing themselves.

2. Help train their fisheries officers to be full fledged CO's

3. They need to get a better handle on #'s of anglers and Fish being caught

4. Limit the amount of ice shacks allowed/or none at all

5. Negotiate with the First nation,eg. every 2nd year lake is closed all winter in exchange for no spearing or maybe no netting that same year.

6. Have a fee for commercial ice huts and that money be put into lake nipissing eg(100 commercial huts x $500 = $50,000)lol almost the mnrs budget

for the lake.

 

The OMNR just needs to start thinking outside the box and get a little creative. I think the omnr legal expertise needs to ease up and let the grassroots people do some ground breaking work.

 

If my First Nation (who fought court battles for fishing, fist fights with wardens, constant finger pointing) can get together and be where they are at with Fisheries management, I'm sure all people around lake nipissing can get through some personal battles and do what is right for the lake.

 

I'll try and get on here tommorrow for a little bit again. again Thank you all for having open minds and being curious about this very sometimes heated topic. Have a good evening everyone.

 

 

 

Those seem to be reasonable options to consider. I hope at the end of this thread that this thread can be printed out and read by the powers that be on both sides.

 

Art

[Headhunter]

Hey Crosshairs, thanks for hanging in the thread...

Us against them is a pretty common thing these days, regardless of what the topic is. I gather that through the years, a great deal of distrust has been festering and as such, I can see where that comes from.

I am however concerned about the expectation that the MNR will step up with money for Nip. I can only imagine the screams that will come from anglers far and wide, about how their license dollars are being spent to fill NFN nets. I know that I would have concerns with that.

I know I am speaking to the choir here with regard to anglers following the rules with regard to the slot and possesion numbers... I have yet to personally meet any OFC'er who has delberately broken a rules, so if that is indeed a problem on the lake, I haven't seen it; that doesn't by any means suggest that it doesn't happen.

I don't know if getting money from outfitters is a possibility either. Is there enough nmoney in the pool to share? I was up there a few weeks back and was well within eye shot of the ice condos and it appeared to me that at least half, were un-occupied. But I think you make a good point about all stakeholders having a say in the future of the lake. But that starts to get back into the us against them thing again, doesn't it.

HH

[Headhunter]

Oh, I forgot to mention that I think point number 5 in your above post has a great deal of merit... both sides of this discussion are going to have to give and take, for a middle ground to be found.

Legislating winter closure is a relatively easy thing to do, to anglers who require a license... but based on what you have indicated in your earlier posts, I'm guessing that enforcing such an agreement might prove to be difficult, for the First Nations to enforce, amoung their people. How do you tell someone who has treaty rights to not spear in the spring, when they are only looking to provide some protein to their family... it's a pretty complicated situation, isn't it.

HH

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

The MNR recently ceased it's lake trout stocking on Lake Superior. I'm interested to see what impacts this will have on the shoals targeted commercially versus those that aren't.

[crosshairs]

Oh, I forgot to mention that I think point number 5 in your above post has a great deal of merit... both sides of this discussion are going to have to give and take, for a middle ground to be found.

Legislating winter closure is a relatively easy thing to do, to anglers who require a license... but based on what you have indicated in your earlier posts, I'm guessing that enforcing such an agreement might prove to be difficult, for the First Nations to enforce, amoung their people. How do you tell someone who has treaty rights to not spear in the spring, when they are only looking to provide some protein to their family... it's a pretty complicated situation, isn't it.

HH

 

Thus far it is the community driving everthing that has been done to date. On top of that, treaty Rights are not individual rights. They are cummunal in nature, what one person does has affects on everyone in the community. So I can see some huge steps being made because this is community driven. The community has actually said that some regulation must go on the spearing, and I am assuming discussions are not in place on that topic.

 

And yes it is very complicated, but also very intersting. The true test of the First nations laws will be when the courts recognize them (as in BC where some FN community fishing laws are actually in the Federal Fisheries Act, then larger fines or incarceration will help deter the few bad apples from breaking their own laws. Our regulations can be modified quite quickly 4-6 months while the crowns turn around time is approximately 2 yrs, if I'm not mistaken.

 

I'll be gone for a while, kids have hockey all this weekend, and march break so I'll be outta town but take care all, if time permits I'll try and peek in.

[Nipfisher]

Was a good end to the season on Callander Bay. We fished from noon on Saturday until 10pm. We caught 9 walleye and a handfull of perch. Most of the walleye were small and 2 were in the slot size. We also caught one mudpuppy. Then our friend (Bertrand93) was back out this morning and he caught 5 walleye and 3 perch and 1 herring. He may have caught more after we left as we pulled the huts off today.

[Joeytier]

I'll be out there either tomorrow or Tuesday evening for one last kick at the can.

[Nipfisher]

P.M. me. Maybe I'll head out with you? At least I'll tell you where we got them.

[Joeytier]

P.M. me. Maybe I'll head out with you? At least I'll tell you where we got them.

I'd probably be headin' out solo anyway, so yeah give me a shout.