Mike01 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 So let me get this straight.... Your telling me the reason I didn't catch as many walleye this year as I have years past is because I'm not adapting to the "new" fishery. I'm not one of those weekend warriors of guys from down South that are here for a week. I spend any available time I have on the water and am even thinking of running a charter business in the years to come. The unregulated netting of the lake in the last 50 years has brought the walleye population to its proverbial knees. Maybe they are doing a better job now but IMO the damage has already been done. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 From my perspective. Summer fishing by anglers is nowhere near what it was even 20 years ago. Tourist operators are quiet in comparison to what it once was. In the last few summers when I am out on the water I have to look for other boats on the water, even on long weekends. At one time you had to get out early to get your "spot". Yes, there are more shacks out there in winter (less this year) but many of them do not get used on a regular basis. Up until 5 years or so ago on the south end of the lake I could go out and catch a few fish. Then the nets started coming down here because the pickerel were getting scarce in the French River area. As soon as this happened the fishing got tough. The fishery is doomed at the present pace. A few years ago they introduced the slot size. Most follow the rules, yes, there are exceptions. The reasoning the exceptions use is that the slot size fish end up being the ones the netters like to keep. While I do believe they are wrong for keeping them, I understand their reasoning. Does Simcoe get netted? How is the fishery there? How many anglers? Just asking. Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but I believe ignoring this is sticking heads in the sand. The MNR heads must be up to their butt by now. They don't want to address the problem either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 There is way more comercial ice fishing operations on Nipissing in the last 10-15 yrs,the invention of the "Ice Bungalos" put dozens more operators on the lake.At one time perhaps %50 of tourist operations put huts out and ran viable winter fisheries,now it seems every operator puts out Bungalos, weather they are a lodge or not.The explosion of ice fishing gear also has pressured the populations, now anglers just don't rent a hut for the weekend they come up with ATV's, sonars portable huts the populations take a beating all winter. This along with everything else has beat up the population, the natives are trying to improve on there end but the sportfishers and tourist operators have made no attempt except for alot of whinning and crying.Baning one groups livelyhood to improve yours is not the answer or is it going to happen. As for lake Simcoe the only reason a viable fishery exsists is because of heavy stocking efforts for years, if left to natural populations Lake Simcoe would be nothing but perch and bass fishery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I'm on the lake more days than most anyone I know and have been for 54 years. I know how it works. Moratorium? It's done when the ice is still on the lake and they can't net anyway because it is impassible. It's just PR to put in the newspaper and to Bull those that don't realize it. When nets are stretched across the entire river mouth and populated shoals the fish don't stand a chance. Not all the fish that are netted are put into the quota list. There are those that are on their own. They have admitted this and have said they would rectify that. I hope so. Not sure why I am arguing this as it seems it only goes nowhere, not my intention, I'd like to see solutions. It won't matter soon because there will be nothing left to argue about. There is no simple answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I'm on the lake more days than most anyone I know and have been for 54 years. I know how it works. Moratorium? It's done when the ice is still on the lake and they can't net anyway because it is impassible. It's just PR to put in the newspaper and to Bull those that don't realize it. When nets are stretched across the entire river mouth and populated shoals the fish don't stand a chance. Not all the fish that are netted are put into the quota list. There are those that are on their own. They have admitted this and have said they would rectify that. I hope so. Not sure why I am arguing this as it seems it only goes nowhere, not my intention, I'd like to see solutions. It won't matter soon because there will be nothing left to argue about. There is no simple answer. I totaly agree there are no simple answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 I totaly agree there are no simple answers Well, I believe that the answers are pretty simple, but simply not palitable to special interest groups. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiel Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 As for lake Simcoe the only reason a viable fishery exsists is because of heavy stocking efforts for years, if left to natural populations Lake Simcoe would be nothing but perch and bass fishery They don't stock bass or perch in Simcoe as you well know and the perch fishery is hammered year round but continues to hold up to the most angler pressured lake in the province. Mind you they don't net them either. The Lakers and Whitefish are stocked due to the eutrophication of the lake and loss of suitable spawining grounds, not because of fishing pressure. Eutrophication is obviously a man made issue but the Lake Trout and Whitefish are starting to show signs of natural recovery due in part to the reduction of phosphorus loading, but of course there is no netting. A moratorium on Herring as shown a vast improvement of their numbers as well, but then again they're not netted. Nipissing could be a world class fishery and guided charters along with local tourist oriented business' could bring in vast sums of money for all commercial business in the area, netting only brings in money for a select few and of course selective harvest along with catch and release can't be applied to gill nets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 As I have stated on many posts before all the First nations fish are accounted for. The handfull of those who maynot record the proper numbers or donot report any are all taken into consideration and estimates are added to cover those fish. Why would the first nation spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to protect the resource and then make up numbers. Come on people. As for the Moratorium happening when the ice is still on, last year people were driving by boat and spearing at lonely island by april 6th. The moratorium runs from April 1st through May 10th when little if any walleye are seen still on the shoals. Again if they wanted PR they would do a fish hatchery. Fish hatcheries Lets see, we'll take a hundred thousand eggs from Nippising fish (that were gonna end up on the spawning bed anyways)put them in a hatchery and when they hatch lets put them back in nippissing so the natural ones(which are bigger) can eat them. Hatcheries are for give and take lakes. Nipissing is a very productive lake. And there are no simple solutions, the first nations picture though looks alot better than the angling side. Sure they may take the most fish but the FNation is spending triple the amount than the ontario government into the lake, plus making all the decisions to manage themselves voluntarily while the ontario government cuts back on assessment and even cancelling creel surveys where they get the data for numbers of fish caught by anglers. No one even knows how many anglers are out there per year, let alone how many fish being caught. The First Nation has a pretty good grasp i think on the 15 or so Commercial fisherman they have. The compliance rate if tested will benefit the first nation.North shore is terrible for docks so 80% of all boats are using the couple of boat launches which makes it pretty easy to monitor. These are just some facts, not the Tim Hortons retorhic that some here feel the need to spew. I would like to know what has any other organization put into lake nipissing? Not spending on meetings or PR hatcheries but money actually going into lake nipissing. Nipissing First nation has an on reserve population of approximately 1000 people and they are spending lets say $300,000/yr which equals $300 per person/yr, perhaps all communities on lake nipissing put in $300/person to properly manage this resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiel Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 As I have stated on many posts before all the First nations fish are accounted for. The handfull of those who maynot record the proper numbers or donot report any are all taken into consideration and estimates are added to cover those fish. Why would the first nation spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to protect the resource and then make up numbers. Come on people. As for the Moratorium happening when the ice is still on, last year people were driving by boat and spearing at lonely island by april 6th. The moratorium runs from April 1st through May 10th when little if any walleye are seen still on the shoals. Again if they wanted PR they would do a fish hatchery. Fish hatcheries Lets see, we'll take a hundred thousand eggs from Nippising fish (that were gonna end up on the spawning bed anyways)put them in a hatchery and when they hatch lets put them back in nippissing so the natural ones(which are bigger) can eat them. Hatcheries are for give and take lakes. Nipissing is a very productive lake. And there are no simple solutions, the first nations picture though looks alot better than the angling side. Sure they may take the most fish but the FNation is spending triple the amount than the ontario government into the lake, plus making all the decisions to manage themselves voluntarily while the ontario government cuts back on assessment and even cancelling creel surveys where they get the data for numbers of fish caught by anglers. No one even knows how many anglers are out there per year, let alone how many fish being caught. The First Nation has a pretty good grasp i think on the 15 or so Commercial fisherman they have. The compliance rate if tested will benefit the first nation.North shore is terrible for docks so 80% of all boats are using the couple of boat launches which makes it pretty easy to monitor. These are just some facts, not the Tim Hortons retorhic that some here feel the need to spew. I would like to know what has any other organization put into lake nipissing? Not spending on meetings or PR hatcheries but money actually going into lake nipissing. Nipissing First nation has an on reserve population of approximately 1000 people and they are spending lets say $300,000/yr which equals $300 per person/yr, perhaps all communities on lake nipissing put in $300/person to properly manage this resource. All right, educate me please. What happens to all of the non desirable/marketable species that are taken in the gill nets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) i think there's some suspect mismanagement of the fishery involved but this subject is exhausted. because our resources are so important, i can only hope that we all remember these things at election time. Edited March 7, 2011 by Dr. Salvelinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) Helpful and very well thoughtout Doc! Here, we have just now had some info being discussed and you throw that out there... My guess would be that the time you spend on Nip is ZERO! I bet your response would have been different if your family cottage was on Nip, vs the barking you have been doing about your own little piece of paradise being invaded. HH Edited March 7, 2011 by Headhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) sorry hh... i added a message afterwards while i was editing. i didn't mean it as a disrespect to the issue, because privately i get very riled up about this kind of stuff. the wise crack picture was just to poke fun at how this issue comes up every few weeks... not unlike the cormorants, flossing, and all the rest of the never ending arguments. trust me, we're on the same side. Edited March 7, 2011 by Dr. Salvelinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 sorry hh... i added a message afterwards while i was editing. i didn't mean it as a disrespect to the issue, because privately i get very riled up about this kind of stuff. the wise crack picture was just to poke fun at how this issue comes up every few weeks... not unlike the cormorants, flossing, and all the rest of the never ending arguments. trust me, we're on the same side. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 All right, educate me please. What happens to all of the non desirable/marketable species that are taken in the gill nets? The non desirable species you speak of are Herring, sucker, Fresh water drum (sheephead)and catfish. The herring have a mite that makes them illegal to sell to public. Even the perch have been hard to sell for some because they have a stone (calcium build up) within the meat. Personnally I eat perch all the time and only came across this once. As for how are they disposed of, just like any commercial fishery they are thrown out. Great lakes and oceans they are dumped right back in the lake, here some are put in the lake others are dumped out. Some fish are given to community members. The Fisherman have sales for walleye,pike,whitefish,some perch,silver bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 You can't justify actions on Nip, by comparing it to the Great Lakes or the oceans... for obvious reasons. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 You can't justify actions on Nip, by comparing it to the Great Lakes or the oceans... for obvious reasons. HH Not justifying, just stating as with any commercial fishery there will be bi-catch. And it will be disposed of. The volumes caught are to small scale for larger industries such as pet food etc. Ideas on how to use these fish are welcome I'm sure. Some community members can suckers, and make them into patties but this is a only a few people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeytier Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Crosshairs: Just curious as to where the money being 'spent on nip' is going to. I'm not sure I understand how that helps to counteract gill netting in a naturally reproductive lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Crosshairs: Just curious as to where the money being 'spent on nip' is going to. I'm not sure I understand how that helps to counteract gill netting in a naturally reproductive lake. The First Nation has created it's own manegement for the commercial fishery. They have a biologist on staff who has created a manegement plan for their fishery, they have established their own enforcement unit and assessment unit. Until this happened the netting was unregulated. This is voluntary, the first nation can fish commercially with out interference from the government. They are using a management system which is recognized world wide (scientifically defensable in courts), which includes OMNR numbers of angler harvest. This money isn't used to couter act gill netting but used to ensure it is being done in a sustainable manner. The First Nation is doing it by the book because they are ready to be challenged, their numbers, management system and assessment. If we are to look at all the facts who's fishery is actually the regulated one? The one where I've fished 20 yrs and never seen a CO or the one where the fishery officers are doing audits on you and your catch every couple days. The money just isn't there for the OMNR to properly manage this resource. How much tourism dollars are brought into the area from lake nipissing, just put 10% of the tax dollars collected from that revenue towards the fishery and I'm sure its more than the 70,000 the government puts into it now. Just my thoughts, I don't get on here to often but if there are questions I'm more than willing to try and answer them if I can. Take Care all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike01 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 ok, this has gone way off the original topic but I'm gonna go with it. The biologist that you guys speak of quit soon after being hired because he wasn't telling the first nation what they wanted to hear... regardless of laws and rights Nipissing can not support a commercial fishery longterm because of the mis-management of the past. tell me what beneficial social and economic impact gill netting has on the area surrounding lake Nipissing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadadude Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 It has an economic impact on the Band,they earn monies from fishing,it also has an econimic impact on resteraunts who now serve nipissing walleye dinners,and the fish market who sells nipissing fish.The quota system the native fishery follows and supports sustainability programs which means the lake will suport a commercial fishery. Sport fisherman have to relize the fishery does not just belong to them,there are other players out on the lake. Instead of whinning and crying,get on board with the other players on the lake and invest in the fishery. The tourist operations on the lake have been on a free ride forever without putting a nickle back in, they just whine and complain mean while rapping the resource for years, for one thing profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nipfisher Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I coppied this off of another site. Just saying there are still walleye to be caught on Nipissing. I did better this year then any of the last 3 years. I don't fish hard. I just like to sit in the hut and try to catch fish. I will fish much harder this summer. Not my info......... Did the last trip for the season up to Nippising ..Greening Bay cottages . Great trip Ice was good lots of fish 36 keeper walleyes lots of perch enough for 9 guys and to many Ling to count and who would want to any way and oh yes a few herring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 The non desirable species you speak of are Herring, sucker, Fresh water drum (sheephead)and catfish. The herring have a mite that makes them illegal to sell to public. Even the perch have been hard to sell for some because they have a stone (calcium build up) within the meat. Personnally I eat perch all the time and only came across this once. As for how are they disposed of, just like any commercial fishery they are thrown out. Great lakes and oceans they are dumped right back in the lake, here some are put in the lake others are dumped out. Some fish are given to community members. The Fisherman have sales for walleye,pike,whitefish,some perch,silver bass. So any fish species is fair game no matter the impact the fish caught,sold or not, have on the fish population and overall balance of the lake. You like to be portrayed as keepers of the lake but you can't have it both ways, you simply don't know, nor does your biologist know, what the long term impact of commercial fishing on the lake will be. No doubt the cod fisherman cared about their fishery too, but that didn't stop their greed from killing it. I genuinely hope that doesn't happen here, but if it does im sure those of us who can't set gill nets will get blamed first. I love the, 'they are eating more smelt' argument for why anglers are finding them harder to catch, but that argument never gets extended to why? And is the commercial netting of the lake changing the balance so that maybe more smelt are available to fewer walleye. Who knows, it's complicated, but that is the point really, being native gill nets does not make them more environmentally sensible, the best of intentions aside. But, this is a dead horse, we have rules to follow and you get to make your own rules, i just hope you know what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I coppied this off of another site. Just saying there are still walleye to be caught on Nipissing. I did better this year then any of the last 3 years. I don't fish hard. I just like to sit in the hut and try to catch fish. I will fish much harder this summer. Not my info......... Did the last trip for the season up to Nippising ..Greening Bay cottages . Great trip Ice was good lots of fish 36 keeper walleyes lots of perch enough for 9 guys and to many Ling to count and who would want to any way and oh yes a few herring Yep, I agree best year in the past few for sure. Plenty of eyes caught this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosshairs Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 ok, this has gone way off the original topic but I'm gonna go with it. The biologist that you guys speak of quit soon after being hired because he wasn't telling the first nation what they wanted to hear... regardless of laws and rights Nipissing can not support a commercial fishery longterm because of the mis-management of the past. tell me what beneficial social and economic impact gill netting has on the area surrounding lake Nipissing? The biologist i speak has been here from the begining and is still here. He can be contacted at 753-2922. His name is Richard Rowe, he was the omnr biologist for lake nipissing prior to working with the first nation. Chief and Council has lowered the quota twice on his recommmendations. For the laws and management plan to be legal or defensible in court the science must be sound and follow principals recognized globally. What impact does Tourist operators have on the First nation? What revenue does the First nation generate from all the people visiting and fishing on lake nipissing? Theey receive nothing, but put the most back into the lake. Nipissing First nation is taking a stance, and are going to be either Managing the whole lake or at the very least be in a co management agreement with your Government for all Management decisions on lake Nipissing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 It has an economic impact on the Band,they earn monies from fishing,it also has an econimic impact on resteraunts who now serve nipissing walleye dinners,and the fish market who sells nipissing fish.The quota system the native fishery follows and supports sustainability programs which means the lake will suport a commercial fishery. Sport fisherman have to relize the fishery does not just belong to them,there are other players out on the lake. Instead of whinning and crying,get on board with the other players on the lake and invest in the fishery. The tourist operations on the lake have been on a free ride forever without putting a nickle back in, they just whine and complain mean while rapping the resource for years, for one thing profit. I would hardly call the taxes paid by resorts a free ride! Without that tax revenue, there would be hardly any services provided to the area and those who are getting a free ride, would be much worse off then they are. Someone paid for the infrastructure there and I am betting it's the tax base. And that's certainly not the same group who have their own set of rules! HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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