Man jailed in shooting incident

[Spiel]

Man jailed in shooting incident

 

November 3/2010

 

SUSAN GAMBLE / www.brantfordexpositor.ca

A Brant County man who used a shotgun to frighten a couple of fishermen who had dropped lines in his stocked trout pond was sentenced Tuesday in Superior Court to a year in jail.

 

But Frank Meszaros's lawyer Shawn Swarts was working on arranging bail for his 62-year-old client and appealing that judgment before the ink was dry on the sentence.

 

"I have no choice ... but to impose the minimum mandatory sentence of incarceration," said Justice Harrison Arrell, sending off the immaculately dressed Mezaros to be processed.

 

Arrell said that he considered if the minimum punishment of a year in jail would be "so excessive or grossly disproportionate that Canadians would find it abhorrent or intolerable."

 

He said he didn't believe Meszaros's situation met that threshold.

 

"The case involved an experienced gun handler who approached two young men in an isolated setting with a loaded firearm when there was no danger to himself or his wife," said Arrell.

 

"He exercised incredibly poor judgment and it could have had tragic consequences."

 

Arrell took into account Meszaros's unblemished past, relatively high regard in the community, longstanding marriage and excellent work record in passing sentence.

 

In May 2008, two 27-year-old men were fishing along Whiteman's Creek and moved onto a private pond on Meszaros's property, which is adjacent to Apps Mill Nature Centre.

 

The homeowner saw the men from his house and confronted them with a buckshot-loaded shotgun.

 

According to disputed testimony, Meszaros either shot into the air or shot toward the men, who were hit with a few pellets.

 

A jury found Meszaros guilty of assault and using a firearm while committing that assault.

 

The maximum sentence for using a gun while committing an indictable offence is 14 years, while the minimum sentence is one year.

 

During sentencing discussions in September, Meszaros's lawyer insisted that sending his client to jail would be a cruel and unusual punishment that didn't fit the severity of the crime.

 

"It was obvious he was defending his property," said Swarts. "There was a constant problem with people on his property." Swarts said his client is an exemplary citizen, who has never been to jail and who has a heart condition.

 

The lawyer suggested a conditional discharge and a probationary term.

 

But assistant Crown attorney George Orsini told the judge that Meszaros had taken the law into his own hands.

 

"He loaded a shotgun and fired it while two people were running away. He never called the police. He was not defending his property."

 

Fishing is allowed in areas of Whiteman's Creek but sportsmen are supposed to remain in marked areas.

 

During interviews with police, Meszaros recalled only two other times in three decades when fishermen trespassed on his land. Both times the fishermen left after being asked to do so.

 

"(This time) he was angry at the fishermen fishing in his stocked pond," said Orsini. "He was teaching them a lesson and never called the police."

 

After a six-day trial, Meszaros was convicted on four counts of assault, careless use and storage of a firearm and using a firearm while committing an offence.

 

The jury was unanimous in saying that Meszaros used excessive force in defending his property.

 

The judge did not order Meszaros to surrender a sample of his DNA, saying the chances of him reoffending are "slim to nil." Meszaros's lawyer said the sentence will be appealed.

 

[tb4me]

ha I know this guy.Well not personally anyway.One of those ppl that think thier above the law. Instead of calling OPP to report the trespassers he decides to toss off a couple rounds..The rest is history for a year anyway..

[cranks bait]

He's lucky he only got a year. Had the judge "waited for the ink to dry" it would probably have been more. I hope it does not get dropped.

 

Firearms are not something to be played with. I don't care what his intentions were. He should also have his firearms removed and a ban on all firearms for at least five years.

 

All I know is what I have read here. People need to be held accountable for their actions. I wonder how many times he got away with it?

[bottombouncer]

hes not in jail..he instantly appealed his sentence and was re-released on his same bail conditions.the entire process can take another year to go through and he can either receive more time or less after the appeal......

[Twocoda]

The only time you pull the trigger is with the intent on hitting and destroying your target...now in my mind he is either a real bad shot or misused a firearm for its intent...but since he hit them i guess his shot isnt that bad and im going to have to think he is getting off real lightly....i wonder if the two fishermen got charged with trespassing or if getting peppered with buck shot was enough punishment?

[jedimaster]

This is where the laws falls short in Canada. Come on my property blatantly breaking the law and you will get the same treatment. You know damn well a call to the OPP is going to do nothing, same with a call to the MnR. These guys knew they were trespassing and knew they shouldn't be fishing on his property. I am not saying the guy should get off, he too should expect to be penalized for his actions. But these two morons should have there fishing licenses taken away, and be severely fined for poaching and tresspassing.

 

The reality is noone here knows what actually happened, likely he went down and said get off my property, the two punks probably told him to go F himself, he went back grab the shotty, loaded it with bird shot and fired around in the air and the two punks took off. Both are at fault and both should be sentanced. The difference is the two fishermen in this case started the whole incident by breaking the law in the first place so they should be dealt a stiffer sentance.

 

 

 

 

The only time you pull the trigger is with the intent on hitting and destroying your target...now in my mind he is either a real bad shot or misused a firearm for its intent...but since he hit them i guess his shot isnt that bad and im going to have to think he is getting off real lightly....i wonder if the two fishermen got charged with trespassing or if getting peppered with buck shot was enough punishment?

[jedimaster]

The only time you pull the trigger is with the intent on hitting and destroying your target

 

 

That is very far from true, I have often used a shot to scare off a bear while deer hunting... a gun shot is not always for the use of hitting and destroying a target as you so eliquently put it.

I am sure if he wanted to he could have grabed his 30-06 and put a bullet between the eyes. The intent as outlined by the judge was to chase them off his property, he had no intent on destroying them.

[bottombouncer]

"The reality is noone here knows what actually happened, likely he went down and said get off my property, the two punks probably told him to go F himself, he went back grab the shotty, loaded it with bird shot and fired around in the air and the two punks took off. Both are at fault and both should be sentanced. The difference is the two fishermen in this case started the whole incident by breaking the law in the first place so they should be dealt a stiffer sentance".

 

 

 

your right,no one knows for sure what really happened but from growing up and fishing in the area for years.i do know that this guy has always had issues with trespassing and has had signs posted along his property for as long as i can remember.from what i was told by a very reliable source,these 2 guys have been there before,knew they were in the wrong and the property owner has called the police countless times with no results,until he decided to take matters in his own hands.both guys have not been charged with trespassing and have not faced any penalties what so ever.not even when the guy shot at them were they harmed or any serious injuries took place....im not saying he was in the right for pulling his gun out and shooting at them but i do feel his pain and frustrations that even when doing the right thing and calling the opp and posting signs,no results took place...in my opinion,the 2 guys ignorantly ignored any signs and should face some kind of penalty as well.we as anglers have a responsibility to follow any laws and respect the property of others..just because there is great fishing past a no trespassing sign,that doesnt give anyone the right or the authority to ignore those signs..you would be surprised at how far respecting someones property and just simply asking for permission will go.its people like that and those that leave there garbage every where,that give all anglers a bad name...

[Twocoda]

That is very far from true, I have often used a shot to scare off a bear while deer hunting... a gun shot is not always for the use of hitting and destroying a target as you so eloquently put it.

I am sure if he wanted to he could have grabed his 30-06 and put a bullet between the eyes. The intent as outlined by the judge was to chase them off his property, he had no intent on destroying them.

 

a Co2 horn will scare off a bear too or even quieter some pepper/bear spray then you wouldnt have ruined your hunting ...just saying ...a chainsaw is scary too when its waved around recklessly...but its intentions are for cutting wood ....like a weapons intention are for eliminating a target...eloquently speaking of course and if this target doesnt correct itself....simply put ...you eliminate it !

 

you are correct ...he could have saved the trouble of walking back to the area in question to avoid the confrontation all together with a 30-06 or even a 338...and the weapons would have servered its intended purpose

 

it scares me to think there are hunters out there discharging their weapons everytime they get scared

Edited January 7, 2011 by Twocoda

[jedimaster]

A hunter doesn't scare off a bear because he s scared, he scares off a bear because he doesn't want to kill it. Even when fully capable of doing so. If I was feerful for my life I would put a round through it and not just chase it off. I would much rather hear about ahunter scarying off a bear with a warning shot than one putting a round through it.

[Twocoda]

A hunter doesn't scare off a bear because he s scared, he scares off a bear because he doesn't want to kill it. Even when fully capable of doing so. If I was feerful for my life I would put a round through it and not just chase it off. I would much rather hear about ahunter scarying off a bear with a warning shot than one putting a round through it.

 

sorry but im not understanding your statement ....why would you want to scare something away from you if your not scared? Especially while your hunting ??? weapons are designed to hit targets....not scare them ...

[jedimaster]

Would you be scared any run away from me if I pulled a gun out and fired a shot across your bow?

 

There are many reasons I would choose to scare off a bear while I was deer hunting...like perhaps because if a bear was licking my salt lick I highly doubt I will get a shot at a deer. It doesn't sound like you are a hunter.

[Twocoda]

Would you be scared any run away from me if I pulled a gun out and fired a shot across your bow?

 

There are many reasons I would choose to scare off a bear while I was deer hunting...like perhaps because if a bear was licking my salt lick I highly doubt I will get a shot at a deer. It doesn't sound like you are a hunter.

ive been a ethical/moral and safe hunter entire life...

 

and as a hunter you bait deer???? hmmmm interesting...i have never baited a target once...not even buck urine

 

I dont want to step on this thread but i think you should do a refresher on your Ontario Hunters Safety Course...

Edited January 7, 2011 by Twocoda

[Twocoda]

Would you be scared any run away from me if I pulled a gun out and fired a shot across your bow?

 

There are many reasons I would choose to scare off a bear while I was deer hunting...like perhaps because if a bear was licking my salt lick I highly doubt I will get a shot at a deer. It doesn't sound like you are a hunter.

 

for what reason would you be firing a shot across my bow???? there is more to hunting than a piece of paper that says your allowed to ...

[jedimaster]

Last I checked baiting deer with various things like scent, salt licks, apples, apple cookers, cmere deer, acorn scent etc... was all legal, minus the use of Real animal products like Urine. I would suggest you read the regulations and check for yourself.

 

As in this fellas case if you were tresppassing on my property, and the police were doing nothing about it, then if I asked you to leave and you didn't or cussed me out whitch is very likely, then the next qweek you came back, most certainly there would be a confrontation of some sort.

 

Its not like this guy was sitting up in a tree waiting and baiting the fishermen with a sign saying, "poachers come fish my property"

[Twocoda]

Last I checked baiting deer with various things like scent, salt licks, apples, apple cookers, cmere deer, acorn scent etc... was all legal, minus the use of Real animal products like Urine. I would suggest you read the regulations and check for yourself.

 

As in this fellas case if you were tresppassing on my property, and the police were doing nothing about it, then if I asked you to leave and you didn't or cussed me out whitch is very likely, then the next qweek you came back, most certainly there would be a confrontation of some sort.

 

Its not like this guy was sitting up in a tree waiting and baiting the fishermen with a sign saying, "poachers come fish my property"

 

i beg to differ...your not allowed to sit on bait for deer...bears yes... no sport in that though IMO but not deer...without checking im going to say the bait has to be removed 24? hours prior to your hunt...

 

i guess its your choice as to weather or not you would do the same as this guy ....hopefully you never have to come across this situation so you dont have to find out first hand if youll get off as easy as him...there are other ways of dealing with things then pulling out a gun...by doing so in my mind is imposing the idea you are willing to use it ....isnt that a death threat ???? and last i checked ...death threats are illegal punishable by longer then a year in jail...

 

there isnt a problem that cant be resolved by other means ...this guy went about it all wrong ...and i bet ...if you asked him if would he do it again the same way ...his answer would be no...who is going to protect his pond now? or feed his family or put a band aide on his kids knee when he is locked up...this isnt the wild west anymore with gun totin cowboys...there are times i wish it was but it isnt ...its the careless attitude of this guy that makes it that much harder for the legal gun owners...that use their weapons for the pure enjoyment of the sport of hunting ...( just my opinion ) i would bet he will never own or be permitted to own/hold a weapon again legally ...but ...since his judge is obviously kind ...he will probably have it back in ten years...

 

there is no doubt the entire situation sucks...if the cops wouldnt help then some strategically placed cameras catching them in the act on his property would be greatly appreciated by the cops for doing their job for them ...without a weapon involved...and saving the hardships his family has had to endure ...

 

regarldess the little asses that trespassed should be charged for it to the max ...so they could feel the hardships this guy is feeling in legal fees..

 

now do tell for what reason would you have a weapon on board a boat firing it across my bow ? or is that just a gun totin comment of testosterone?

Edited January 7, 2011 by Twocoda

[irishfield]

twocoda... you'd better read those regs again.. either that or every deer hunter in Simcoe county is probably hunting illegally... Carrot piles,, apple piles.. pumpkins from Halloween... etc.

[Twocoda]

twocoda... you'd better read those regs again.. either that or every deer hunter in Simcoe county is probably hunting illegally... Carrot piles,, apple piles.. pumpkins from Halloween... etc.

 

duely noted...just curious was salt licks listed in there? every WMU is different

Edited January 7, 2011 by Twocoda

[irishfield]

I have no idea... they just all do it! lol ... I don't really see it as sport either, but if it's hunting legally.. just like keeping a legal size muskie for the wall... who am I to question and judge.

[Whitespinnerbait]

Perfect example of where if the Old Gizzard would have injured one of the Fishermen he would have said the gun went off '' Accidently ''..............

[jedimaster]

Salt licks are also legal, at least they are in the WMU's I have hunted. As for the gun going off accidentally, I doubt that would fly too far. I am all for the rights to fish and for the rights to hunt, but not at the expense of someone elses private property. That doens't mean I think this guy should get off but, I certainly don't think badly of him for doing so.

I do think badly of those fishermen for trespassing just to fish on a guys private pond.

[Twocoda]

Salt licks are also legal, at least they are in the WMU's I have hunted. As for the gun going off accidentally, I doubt that would fly too far. I am all for the rights to fish and for the rights to hunt, but not at the expense of someone elses private property. That doens't mean I think this guy should get off but, I certainly don't think badly of him for doing so.

I do think badly of those fishermen for trespassing just to fish on a guys private pond.

 

If you dont think badley of him for breaking the law with a fire arm ...then why would you think badley of two kids trespassing ??? So the next time a bank gets robbed maybe they should just charge the crooks with trespassing Seriously ...if he had of called the cops ....and they showed up and caught the two trespassers red handed ....how many people would have gotten shot then????ill place my money on ZERO....so if the cops can do it with no weapons discharged ...why couldnt he ...because he took the law in his owns hands by doing what he did so he is(in your mind) equivelent to a cop ...

 

I do agree with you though ...there is no such thing as a "accident" when it comes to discharging a weapon...because the only time your finger is on the trigger is with the intentions of using the weapon and eliminating a target ...

 

you still havent answered my question ....why would you possibly have a loaded weapon on your boat and discharching it in my direction across my bow...?????? ....am i trespassing on your water??? ....i dont mean to dwell on this scenario ...but you brought it up and im trying to understand how a ethical moral legal hunter as yourself ...would ever get yourself into this type of scenario...

[jedimaster]

As for the comment of putting one across your bow its just a figure of speach for a warning shot. Clearly you are the type of person to only see back and white and not the multitude of greys out in the real world, so there is realy not much to debate with you. Even when you clearly have some to learn about hunting regulations.

 

As for agun only being used for one thing that is clearly not the case. A gun is not always used as a means to "Eliminate" a target. In fact many firearms are designed to do just the opposite.

 

In the case of me "putting one across your bow" if you were trespassing on my property and wouldn't leave, and there was a long history of you coming back and the police were doing nothing about it, its very possible that you would get a warning shot across your bow so to speak.

 

Like everyone in the real world everyone needs to weigh the consiquinces out with what they do, and going to jail or being fined way just be one of those. Just like these two loser poachers that should also be put in jail/fined whatever...

 

As for your little analogy of bank robbers being charged for trespassing? That makes no sense at all. They would be charged with what they did. A guy robs a bank he gets charged for theft. A guy trespasses and gets charged for trespassing, a guy uses a weapon and he should also be charged for the appropriate crime. Just because I have no sympathy for the Tresspassers doesn't mean I think the guy with the gun shouldn't be charged. Just because someone does something illegal doesn't mean a person can't feel sympathy for them.

 

I think you need to take a step back into the world of reality where crap happens. When it does there are consiquences, and you have to face up to that. Just like this guy that is facing up for shooting at those two guys, and just like those two guys should also face up to what they did. Although it appears they will get off breaking the law.

 

I still feel sympathetic towards the guy with the gun and I have no sympathy for the two idiot poachers, getting peppered with a few pellets.

 

There are plenty of people that get, charged, fined, convicted, jailed etc... that many people feels smpathy for but not for the accused. For example, a crook breaks into you house and is raping your wife, you get into a fight and grab a baseball bat and beat him in the head. The cops show up with you and your wife covered in blood, the guy goes to the hospital and you away in hand cuffs awaiting your bail hearing. I would have much sympathy for you as you get charged for aggrivated assult, and hopefully the other guy would also be charged.

[waki5]

a gun is not the answer. if i aim and pull the trigger to one of my guns. its to kill. you have to respect the firearm. the guy was lucky to get what he did. plan and simple

Edited January 25, 2011 by waki5