Wading aroundCooks Bay

[willow]

Hi I am new on here but know a few people from the CAG board.

I am a brit living near Lake simcoe I target big carp & have had some success around Georgina & Bradford on the rivers.

 

I want to chase the big carp on Lake Simcoe but of course access to shore space is very limited.

I want to target them down in cooks bay this spring, now if I wade at say knee depth or anchor my canoe off shore ( havent got it yet depends on the answers I get here) where can I stand and fish.

I have to stand as my method of fishing involves placing the rods on stable fixed banksticks & european bite alarms

 

I was told by an angry person sunday I was not allowed to fish in front of his property though I was wading 20yards offshore ( only knee deep but then at 100 yards it is only 3 feet deep) as far as I was aware you can only own the land up to the lake not the lake itself or am I wrong. I was not near a dock or any property it was basically open water with no markers etc.

 

Any thoughts welcome & hello to you all including the guys I already know on here

[Fisherman]

Hi I am new on here but know a few people from the CAG board.

I am a brit living near Lake simcoe I target big carp & have had some success around Georgina & Bradford on the rivers.

 

I want to chase the big carp on Lake Simcoe but of course access to shore space is very limited.

I want to target them down in cooks bay this spring, now if I wade at say knee depth or anchor my canoe off shore ( havent got it yet depends on the answers I get here) where can I stand and fish.

I have to stand as my method of fishing involves placing the rods on stable fixed banksticks & european bite alarms

 

I was told by an angry person sunday I was not allowed to fish in front of his property though I was wading 20yards offshore ( only knee deep but then at 100 yards it is only 3 feet deep) as far as I was aware you can only own the land up to the lake not the lake itself or am I wrong. I was not near a dock or any property it was basically open water with no markers etc.

 

Any thoughts welcome & hello to you all including the guys I already know on here

Tell the angry landlubber to kiss your bollocks and eat your shreddies. There's nothing they can do about it unless you are standing on his land on placing your equipment on his land.

[diggyj]

Tell him to get his knickers out of a knot! Never fished for Carp in Simcoe so can't help you there, but you are not doing anything illegal.

 

Dirk

[MJL]

Welcome to the board Nick

 

If you’re wading in the water or floating a canoe and anchoring up in the water anywhere around cooks bay, you are fishing on crown land (despite what landowners tell you). Cooks bay is a navigable waterway and the water and bottom of the lake is owned by the crown.

 

This web-page may be helpful in understanding navigable waterways.

http://www.greybruceoutdoors.com/guestwriters/ChrisHutton-navigablewaters.shtml

 

Obviously try to be polite when mentioning to irate landowners that they can be charged for interfering with your fishing under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act 1997. Should higher authorities such as the police or conservation officers get involved, they would be violating your right to fish under the Heritage Hunting and Fishing Act 2002 by asking you to leave.

 

If you see carp in the shallows, fish away…But don’t step onto dry land till you reach a public area.

[kevin booth]

willow you go fish anywere you want on simcoe, as all waterfront property owners do not own the water or the land its on if you phone the ministry they will tell you the same thing.just stay in the water a bit and you are good legally and if the land owners dont like it tell them to call the cops,there is nothing they can do you are on crown land and its useable on foot just as it is in my boat.

[willow]

Welcome to the board Nick

 

If you're wading in the water or floating a canoe and anchoring up in the water anywhere around cooks bay, you are fishing on crown land (despite what landowners tell you). Cooks bay is a navigable waterway and the water and bottom of the lake is owned by the crown.

 

This web-page may be helpful in understanding navigable waterways.

http://www.greybruce...blewaters.shtml

 

Obviously try to be polite when mentioning to irate landowners that they can be charged for interfering with your fishing under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act 1997. Should higher authorities such as the police or conservation officers get involved, they would be violating your right to fish under the Heritage Hunting and Fishing Act 2002 by asking you to leave.

 

If you see carp in the shallows, fish away…But don't step onto dry land till you reach a public area.

 

Hi Mike we must get a trip going sometime soon, & Hi and thanks to all who have replied so far

 

I thought I was right & politely told him so, shame he was not quite so polite but I did tell him where to go in the end basically, I am suprised I have not seen more shore anglers wading around the bay as it is very shallow though the water needs to warm a little more yet to be really comfortable. The reason I am wading is I know they come in close but I think at the minute they may be a looking for water a little deeper 3 foot is about the tops right now down the bottom end as I said I was amazed last summer how far out I got across the bay in waders though I had to come back in as the kite surfers were a little to close to me for my liking & one boat was flying & not looking where he was going I was a little worried to say the least mind you I was along way out testing how far I could go.

The bottom was pure sand everywhere I got to. Is that the same lower down towards Holland river I wonder i would think it is a little more silty and muddy there.

[Terry]

as you get closer to the Holland river and in the river the bottom is silt and mud and in places it 3 ft maybe more of mud and silt can be real nasty

[craigdritchie]

If you’re wading in the water or floating a canoe and anchoring up in the water anywhere around cooks bay, you are fishing on crown land (despite what landowners tell you). Cooks bay is a navigable waterway and the water and bottom of the lake is owned by the crown.

Not necessarily so - property lines can (and often do) extend for a considerable distance underwater. The only way to determine the actual property line is to visit the registrar's office and check the original land title deed. MJL, you might be surprised how many deeds specifically include a chunk of lake bed (or stream bed). Canadian law is not like that of the US, which generally identifies the property line on navigable waterways as the low-water mark. Canadian properties are always defined by specific measurement. If the lot is 300 feet deep, then it's 300 feet deep, even if a chunk of that happens to lie beneath the waves.

 

For what it's worth, plenty of guys have tried this argument to get access to sections of various trout streams, the thinking being that as long as they're in the water and don't step up on the bank, they're free and clear. Then they're shocked when they get charged with trespass. Happens every year, and guys will be charged on opening weekend this year too. Take it to the bank.

 

Just in terms of optics, it doesn't look good to camp out in front of someone's place even if you are legally in the right to do so. There are plenty of places to fish, and there's no need for confrontation. Who needs the headache?

 

Willow - as Terry notes, some areas of lake bed are pretty tough to wade, especially as you travel south. You might want to speak with the MNR, who can not only direct you to spots with large concentrations of fish, but suggest specific areas where you won't have to worry about your footing or face conflicts with property owners. Carp are an under-utilized species here, so they will be very receptive to helping you out. Try the district office in Aurora (905/713-7400), or the local office in Huronia (705/725-7500) as a starting point. Good luck! Lots of big carp in Simcoe.

[Tacklebuster]

There is a public beach in Keswick that you can use to access the lake. There are several actually. Just drive along lake shore rd. or whatever the road is called that runs along the lake shore and you will notice them. They are scattered all around the lake, and some of them even have parking.

[MJL]

Not necessarily so - property lines can (and often do) extend for a considerable distance underwater. The only way to determine the actual property line is to visit the registrar's office and check the original land title deed. MJL, you might be surprised how many deeds specifically include a chunk of lake bed (or stream bed). Canadian law is not like that of the US, which generally identifies the property line on navigable waterways as the low-water mark. Canadian properties are always defined by specific measurement. If the lot is 300 feet deep, then it's 300 feet deep, even if a chunk of that happens to lie beneath the waves.

 

Good to know Craig

 

One question that comes to mind for the registered property lines is, does the property include the water (liquid or frozen) directly above the stream or lake bed? Not that I personally have any desire to float down private stretches of the Willy or S.V creek. There are a few rivers and streams I know of with privately owned stream beds (Some parts of the upper Saugeen for example) that are part of major canoe and kayak routes – I’ve done trips through a few stretches myself without actually fishing. Once was I told I couldn’t be there till I showed the lady a map of the route going through her property (she did give me a lecture on how she had to pay for property taxes though).

 

For carp fishermen, having a lead sinker on bottom is inevitable – however for tournament bass guys who cast towards docks and shorelines with suspending swim baits or jerk baits (or any bait that doesn’t reach bottom), would they still be considered tresspassing on the property of the land owner even if they never set foot or anchor on it?

 

EDIT

 

It appears that water can be included as part of the property according to the Trespass to Property Act 1990 - Though not in any great detail in what capacity it means

 

“premises” means lands and structures, or either of them, and includes,

 

a. water,

b. ships and vessels,

c. trailers and portable structures designed or used for residence, business or shelter,

d. trains, railway cars, vehicles and aircraft, except while in operation. (“lieux”) R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21, s. 1 (1).

 

A couple responses from the MNR. From the Ask a CO web-site:

 

http://www.outdoorontario.net/AskMNR/mnrfaqfish.html

 

Question 20:

 

Regarding property and ownership, if I am in a boat does a landowner have the right to refuse access to waters around their property? At what point does the landowners property begin?

 

Asked on October1/99

 

Answer from the MNR:

 

There is no one simple answer to this question. In some cases, yes the landowner does indeed have the right to refuse access to waters around his/her property. For instance, you may not access public waterways via private property. In many of the rivers and streams which are not normally used for navigation purposes, the owners of the property surrounding the stream can prohibit access. In a lake, there are cases where the property owner does have legal rights (for a specified distance which varies from one lake to the next) extending out from his/her shoreline. In other lakes, the landowners property extends to the shoreline and no further. My advice is that when you are fishing around someones dock for instance from a boat, and you see the owner along shore, you kindly ask permission to fish around the dock. Most cottage owners will respect your courtesy and allow you fish there.

 

One related question to property access

 

Question 170:

 

On a navigable river, i.e. Nottawasaga or such like, is it permmisable to walk on the river bank up to the high water mark, even though it is posted as No Trespassing?

 

Asked May 13, 2002

 

Answer from the MNR

 

This is a little tricky. If the river is navigable and the bed of the river or stream is Crown land, then you are not tresspassing if you are in the water. But there are some landowners that legally own the river bottom. If the river is non-navigable then the river bottom is private land and you would be tresspassing if there was appropriate signage as set out in the Tresspass to Property Act posted along the river.

 

I would stongly suggest you contact the landowner in question in order to avoid any problems.

Edited April 6, 2010 by MJL

[craigdritchie]

It seems to be a real gray area but from what I've ever seen or read, there doesn't seem to be so much of an issue if you're floating on the water over the privately-owned land. The problem seems to be when you make physical contact with it, i.e. drop the anchor, step ashore, wade, or otherwise physically touch the property.

 

Someone who really wants to dig into this further might want to talk with one of the canoe associations, since as you note they often paddle down rivers with private property on both banks. They might be able to provide a better insight.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Craig_Ritchie

[NAW]

I think there's some conservation land around the southwestern part of cooks bay. I see a ton of duck hunters using if to hunt from. Not sure if it would be the best place for wading out for carp, but it's worth looking into.

 

I carp shoot in that area all the time from my boat. Where I go, the bottom is not safe to wade. There's spots where you can be walking in knee deep water, and the next step, your up past your head. Super soft bottom..

 

PM me if you want more info in Simcoe Carp, and some great spots to go in the coming months..

[ciscokid]

Hi Mike we must get a trip going sometime soon, & Hi and thanks to all who have replied so far

 

I thought I was right & politely told him so, shame he was not quite so polite but I did tell him where to go in the end basically, I am suprised I have not seen more shore anglers wading around the bay as it is very shallow though the water needs to warm a little more yet to be really comfortable. The reason I am wading is I know they come in close but I think at the minute they may be a looking for water a little deeper 3 foot is about the tops right now down the bottom end as I said I was amazed last summer how far out I got across the bay in waders though I had to come back in as the kite surfers were a little to close to me for my liking & one boat was flying & not looking where he was going I was a little worried to say the least mind you I was along way out testing how far I could go.

The bottom was pure sand everywhere I got to. Is that the same lower down towards Holland river I wonder i would think it is a little more silty and muddy there.

 

I have waded in cooks bay a few times, mainly because my only other option was shore fishing but also because i enjoy wading, i find i can work an area better and more stealthily, plus its more fun. I was fishing for pike however so i cant help u with the carp aspect of it but i can tell u that it gets much more difficult to wade down towards the holland river. Theres tons of silt and it can be hard to move around in and even get out of. My brother actually stepped on a huge snapper buried in the mud there too, thankfully it chose flight over bite. Cool thing to see though. I d advise u to stay where u are if the fishing is good, not sure what carp like but down towards the holland its muddy bottom and lots of weeds. If u do go there be careful and dont go to deep because what looks like 2 feet of water can have 3+ feet of mud beneath it.