Dara Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 What's your solution? Tell our foreign creditors, "sorry, I know we borrowed that money to keep our economy from sinking into the abyss, but you'll just have to accept that we won't be paying you back"? Not going to fly. Here's a life lesson you had best understand: There is no such thing as a free lunch. People love to complain. If the government had done nothing, people would have been complaining. The government goes out and borrows money and then (oh the horror!) makes plans to pay it back, people complain. You better get used to it. We'll be paying this bill of for some time. We didn't ask them to borrow it. We asked them to try and do something about the recession. They use that as a blank cheque to get all their pet projects through and leave us with a massive debt. I still don't understand how we sold off all of our power generation facilities and we are still paying for them. Not only that, we are paying to build more capacity for private enterprise to own. Poor planning on our governments part has killed Ontario's manufacturing sector. This property reassesment is a scam too. My property taxes are going up 20% and I have to pay to have the city haul my neighbors leaves away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Ah I get it now. This is propaganda. Never took the time to look at the original post. It comes from the National Citizens Coalition. This is a Libertarian lobby group. At the link provided you can't use there handy-dandy HST calculator unless you given them your e-mail. Memberships must be slipping. Libertarian - think Ron Paul. Libertarians don't want any government and don't want to pay any tax. That goal goes to extremes, if your are blind or crippled from birth, well that is your problem....don't be looking for no government help. The NCC have been fighting the Canadian Health act for four decades, it irks them to no end that their membership, fat old white bald dudes, have to pay into a general pot that may include immigrants. Edited October 31, 2009 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albany_guide Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 We didn't ask them to borrow it. We asked them to try and do something about the recession. Like what? Give every unemployed person a hug and tell them it will be alright? Tell me what you would have done about the recession without spending any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAZE Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Ummm do you acutually believe our defacit will be paid of anytime??? LOL look at the states they put us to shame the amount they owe and it just keeps getting bigger, Let me know when ours goes down, even 1 dollar I want to see it, it just keeps getting bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Ah I get it now. This is propaganda. Never took the time to look at the original post. It comes from the National Citizens Coalition. Your Prime Minister once headed this group. At least here's someone trying to do something about the high taxes that I see many moaning about (but resigned to!). I don't belong, but you could do worse. Edited November 1, 2009 by Jocko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Your Prime Minister once headed this group. At least here's someone trying to do something about the high taxes that I see many moaning about (but resigned to!). I don't belong, but you could do worse. Yes he did. Harper is now considered a traitor by this crew. I've got no problem with a government trying to reducing high taxes. What I have a problem with is agenda driven propaganda being passed off as discontent with government. The HST is actually supposed to be good for business in that it doesn't tax business for incidentals, and levels the playing field for Canadian business in the world market. How come we didn't hear a stitch about that from any of the posters here or on the website? You would think Libertarians would trumpet less tax for business. Propaganda has no interest in balance. Edited November 1, 2009 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickster Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 can someone please explain to me what disposable income is????????????????? is it what happens after I buy a few beer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 No Rickster... those are disposable brain cells.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickster Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 LOL....good thing they are disposable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 LOL....good thing they are disposable Just the weak ones die off from alcohol..the strong ones survive. Think of it as a cleansing. And I'm done arguing ploitics...it just gets me angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikehunter Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Actually the push to harmonize the GST began long before the recession --- years ago when the Liberals were in power in Ottawa. Quebec and the Maritimes harmonized quite some time ago. It's a bad idea that is hard to kill, EXACTLY what I was thinking! Ever since I read the first reply that referred to this being due to the recession. Come on people think back and remember, this was supposed to happen years ago when the GST came into effect and it is what the federal government desired then, and what Prime Minister was in power then? Yep the one we all love to hate MULRONEY! This was planned long ago but no one brought it into effect till now and it is a day that those in a business that does not have to charge PST now is regretting. I can remember before GST and after how our business took a hit and when did the GST come in? Yep during a recession. carp all we want the politicians will do as they please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 WOW I just can't believe everyone on here having an opinion based solely on their political leaning. The facts are very simple with respect to the HST. The push to have it is coming from Ottawa not Queens Park in Ontario. Harper and Flarherty want it and have told Dalton do it if you EVER want to see your fair share of funds from Ottawa...... When Dalton went and stood up for Ontario and begged to get a fair shake he was told if you want it you have to implement the HST. So would you as Premiere continue to accept the status quo where Ontario with only 35% of the population gets hit with 50% of the costs of federal programs? Or would you take the massive injection of funds that Harper has promised you if you implement the HST? Also to whoever said that Dalton is bribing us taxpayers really proved they have absolutely no grasp of the situation. The "bribe" money you are talking about is coming from Harper!!!!!! At least Dalton has promised to pass some it back to us, so the cheque will say it was from Dalton and he will take the blame politically but it was Harper that is giving him the money to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydub Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 WOW I just can't believe everyone on here having an opinion based solely on their political leaning. I'm gonna step out on a limb and say....Liberal??? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I'm gonna step out on a limb and say....Liberal??? lol. Wow, I didn't think there were any left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Yeah call me a liberal for being the only one to state that the HST is good for business and that this is the purpose of harmonizing the tax. You guys kill me with your keen deductive reasoning abilities!! Edited November 1, 2009 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch312 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 thats right people keep on voting in the LIEberals...they are taking us in the right direction its not hard to see why so many people like to go on EI, welfare, etc and work for cash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Bass Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Its crap... Its not as though they need more Tax money to pay off anything, its about mismanagement of the funds we already give them. In this economic climate business has to cut back...we lay off, and restructure to survive Ultimately what happens is as business returns those still employed work harder to make the company run until hiring more labour is seen as necessary. This is a normal down turn cycle in any facet of business, regardless of the sector....unless your the premier In his case he keeps things the same, and avoids the media to keep his job cushy, and easy. When poop hits the fan instead of cutbacks and restructure, he puts on a dog and pony show about paying back a debt that is apparently none of his fault. While I can freely admit he is not to blame for the economic state as a whole I do question what he attempted to do about it as it went down, and his logic about who is at fault, and how to fix it.... The issue is mismanagement not merely a federal spending debt. Its almost as criminal as Municipal taxes... You would think, the more homes we cram into a small place equals more tax revenue, and therefore less tax burden(i.e. maintenance) per street But nope.... Instead it goes up and up each year. Makes no sense what so ever. Bingo! The name of the game is to redirect tax payers dollars to the coffers of the people that helped pay their campiagn. And then leave the tax payer with the bill. And yes, the conservative government is to blame(Free Trade) for selling us off the the states. And importing thousands of immigrants for cheap labour. But what happens when trade slows down between the US and Canada? Unstable employement. So yes. This economic crisis is the fault of the conservatives. Its all about exploiting the poor and increasing profit margins. For those people that support Free trade? Wait until China steals all your jobs. Too bad the flu thread was closed. I still had things to say to the know it alls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." A quote from another fishing site, apparently made by Gerald Ford. A lot of truth to it. Special interest group squealing for money, everybody a victim needing compensation for perceived wrongs, people who haven't, or can't be bothered, making a meaningful contribution to our society or culture always demanding more in exchange for nothing (ever notice how many people without a pot to urinate in seem to always have a cell phone, a pack of smokes, and a case of beer?), people who believe their rights are more important than the rights of others, along with governments who seem afraid to say "no", make for big, expensive government that has an impact on every aspect of our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbosh1980 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) The global recession is the fault of the 1994 conservative government? Heck, I'm not even mad; that's amazing. Edited November 1, 2009 by mbosh1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Also to whoever said that Dalton is bribing us taxpayers really proved they have absolutely no grasp of the situation. The "bribe" money you are talking about is coming from Harper!!!!!! At least Dalton has promised to pass some it back to us, so the cheque will say it was from Dalton and he will take the blame politically but it was Harper that is giving him the money to do it. Oh my Good Lord! Dalton McGuinty...... our hero! Look, the bottom line is that the HST is going to cost each consumer hundreds if not thousands more in taxes every year. I don't care what the rationale is from some people re: how it's going to be good for us, I think it's just plain dumb to think that the solutions to our problems ALWAYS involve us "little guys" paying MORE taxes. Edited November 1, 2009 by Jocko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Does anyone actually read real news on this forum? Everyone knows exactly what the HST is about except that no one here knows what it is about. This is really more about taking two taxes and turning it into one tax that covers the same stuff. This is a tax that is good for business, it streamlines things and save the government money, and as far as I can see is not going to cost the average consumer thousands and thousands of dollars, but instead...as I understand it, is to be revenue neutral overall. If someone wants to state that the tax is the first step of the United nations enslaving all Canadians, or a way for liberals to simply line their pockets....well then I say make that connection using a reliable source. Otherwise it's just a bunch of blowhards grumping about a tax they don't understand and connecting that to whatever bothers them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keram Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Does anyone actually read real news on this forum? Everyone knows exactly what the HST is about except that no one here knows what it is about. This is really more about taking two taxes and turning it into one tax that covers the same stuff. This is a tax that is good for business, it streamlines things and save the government money, and as far as I can see is not going to cost the average consumer thousands and thousands of dollars, but instead...as I understand it, is to be revenue neutral overall. If someone wants to state that the tax is the first step of the United nations enslaving all Canadians, or a way for liberals to simply line their pockets....well then I say make that connection using a reliable source. Otherwise it's just a bunch of blowhards grumping about a tax they don't understand and connecting that to whatever bothers them. If your knowledge about HST and understanding it is represented by the sentence in bold/italic (quote from your post) you deserve to pay HST X 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Does anyone actually read real news on this forum? Everyone knows exactly what the HST is about except that no one here knows what it is about. This is really more about taking two taxes and turning it into one tax that covers the same stuff. That's way too simplistic and inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Does anyone actually read real news on this forum? Everyone knows exactly what the HST is about except that no one here knows what it is about. This is really more about taking two taxes and turning it into one tax that covers the same stuff. This is a tax that is good for business, it streamlines things and save the government money, and as far as I can see is not going to cost the average consumer thousands and thousands of dollars, but instead...as I understand it, is to be revenue neutral overall. If someone wants to state that the tax is the first step of the United nations enslaving all Canadians, or a way for liberals to simply line their pockets....well then I say make that connection using a reliable source. Otherwise it's just a bunch of blowhards grumping about a tax they don't understand and connecting that to whatever bothers them. I don't really have a problem with HST coming in. What I have a problem with is the huge increase in taxes because of it. The that crook McGuinty wanted to be fair at all, it would be coming in at something like 5 and 5 to make it 10, not 5 and 8. They are taking way more tax dollars in and we will see no increase in services for it. It will go to political pet projects for re election. And you know it won't stay at 13, it will grow, anf there will be nobody to blame when it does because the feds and provincials weill just point and say, it wasn't me that raised it, it was them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dara Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Does anyone actually read real news on this forum? Everyone knows exactly what the HST is about except that no one here knows what it is about. This is really more about taking two taxes and turning it into one tax that covers the same stuff. This is a tax that is good for business, it streamlines things and save the government money, and as far as I can see is not going to cost the average consumer thousands and thousands of dollars, but instead...as I understand it, is to be revenue neutral overall. If someone wants to state that the tax is the first step of the United nations enslaving all Canadians, or a way for liberals to simply line their pockets....well then I say make that connection using a reliable source. Otherwise it's just a bunch of blowhards grumping about a tax they don't understand and connecting that to whatever bothers them. I didn't notice that at first...you now rate a great bug DUH from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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