solopaddler Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 But have you helped at Ringwood ...i have fished Lake Ontario since the 80s and its very healthy still in 2009 aniceguy has done more for Ontarios steelhead fishery both politically and hands on than probably anyone. I can understand where your comments are coming from considering your background and what you do for a living. But the man is right. At the current rate of harvest the steelhead fishery is not sustainable. That's a fact. Here's what Lou wrote earlier. This statement is correct: "...Currently overall harvest is in the 30- 40 % range and to have a sustainable fishery it needs to be in the 15% range. The only way to actually accomplish this is to go Ny's route and go with a 1 fish slot size...going from 2 to 5 makes no dfifference what so ever". How can you possibly argue this point?
tonyb Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 Here's what Lou wrote earlier. This statement is correct: "...Currently overall harvest is in the 30- 40 % range and to have a sustainable fishery it needs to be in the 15% range. The only way to actually accomplish this is to go Ny's route and go with a 1 fish slot size...going from 2 to 5 makes no dfifference what so ever". How can you possibly argue this point? When it affect$ bu$ine$$!
aniceguy Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 The nature of Lake Ontario and the lack of phosphate being added, zebra mussels introduced and its clarity means a finite biomass within the lake, the lake simply doesn’t have the carrying capacity to handle the fish it did in the 80's. A stocking or as some want an over stocking program will only stunt or worse cause some form of a bait collapse... The lake needs to be managed via sustainable use parameters maximizing its fish production regardless if its CWFIP operations or OMNR , not as a put and take fishery because IMO it is moving away from that at a drastic rate, the provincial government needs to address the charter business by teaming it with the many other tourist opportunities that exist...It’s one of the reasons I’m a believer in the tournaments, as it shows just how dynamic the current lake population is…. If we could only have no kill tournaments………Remember unless we drop millions of metric tons of phosphate manage to bioengineer a kill for the zebra’s the lake is pretty close to its maximum and what was in the 80’s will never be again. Tony I ll argue that a quality fishery with larger fish will please almost every single anglers out there....I too miss the days of watching 100's of boats many charters off Bronte but like I said the charter industry needs a shot in the arm
solopaddler Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 When it affect$ bu$ine$$! Well that's really the unspoken truth isn't it? Sad but true...
dwc67 Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 you lower the limit to 1 what do i do with the bows i am pulling out of 50degree water down 50 to 80ft? there are going to be floaters in august if we can't put them on ice. you can spend a lot of time trying to revive some salmon and trout in 70+ degree surface water and they are still going to die.
canadadude Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Posted January 10, 2009 Some great points made on both sides of the issue, but I think the main concern is having a " Sustainable Fishery" this the most important goal that should be reached. If it means slots, reduced limits or what ever it takes to achieve this, this should be the goal to achieve in managing any species in our Lakes.I think for the health of the fishery somthing needs to done, because at the levels of pressure the Steelies are facing right now a collapse of the population is just around the corner.
Fishmaster Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 Guess we will all have to Wait till 2010 to see if the MNR changes the limits ...like dwc67 said there could be lots of floaters ...
Grimace Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 People could stop the boat to revive them instead of pitching them over the side while still trolling with a bunch of lines out.
BillM Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) People could stop the boat to revive them instead of pitching them over the side while still trolling with a bunch of lines out. Yeah, I really don't believe the whole 'Well we couldn't revive them so we just eat them' theory... Take a little extra time, revive the fish and let it go. Edited January 10, 2009 by BillM
Steve Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 bill and grimace, i see you dont do much blue zone fishing.... you cannot release a fish in 75 degree surface water, when they came from 55 degree water, for any amount of time. you can stop your boat, sit, and try as long as you wish....it isn't happening. imagine trying to catch your breath after a long run, in 100 degree heat.
Fishmaster Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 Yeah, I really don't believe the whole 'Well we couldn't revive them so we just eat them' theory... Take a little extra time, revive the fish and let it go. Easyer said then done ...if you pull a fish from 45 deg water temps up into 70+deg water temps they Die ...only way i have revived them is a cooler full of Ice Water ... but its kinda hard to release a fish a paying client wants to keep ...if his limit is 5 then he will keep 5 fish ...its proable the only 5 fish the guy will keep the the whole year cause thats the only time he gets out fishing ...and 5 fish for a years worth of eating is not much ...there are alote of guys that fish daily out there own that keep there limits all year round ...there is tons of Rainbows on Lake Ontario and Lake Erie and lots of people like them in the smoker ...if you can go out in the middle of the lake and catch 40 Bows a day there must be lots ...till the MNR changes the limit there's nothing anybody can do about it ...unless you see guys keeping more then there limit in the freezer or on a daily catch ...ok im done with this Port D post ...
canadadude Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Posted January 10, 2009 Easyer said then done ...if you pull a fish from 45 deg water temps up into 70+deg water temps they Die ...only way i have revived them is a cooler full of Ice Water ... but its kinda hard to release a fish a paying client wants to keep ...if his limit is 5 then he will keep 5 fish ...its proable the only 5 fish the guy will keep the the whole year cause thats the only time he gets out fishing ...and 5 fish for a years worth of eating is not much ...there are alote of guys that fish daily out there own that keep there limits all year round ...there is tons of Rainbows on Lake Ontario and Lake Erie and lots of people like them in the smoker ...if you can go out in the middle of the lake and catch 40 Bows a day there must be lots ...till the MNR changes the limit there's nothing anybody can do about it ...unless you see guys keeping more then there limit in the freezer or on a daily catch ...ok im done with this Port D post ... There you go boys the charter fishers example of sustainable fishery, " If we can kill 40 a day there must be lots" and when they can't kill any " what happened to the fishery" you dudes have the same atitude as the comercials yet you bad mouth them! The simple fact is the fishery at the point it is now is not sustainable, the charters and the the fishers have found the blue zone where the steelies for years lived and thrived unharmed and now are pressured and the #'s returning to the tribs are low! Hey I don't have all the answers but it is clear there is a problem with dwindling stocks!! So charter dudes keep going out killing you only cutting your own throats, but hey your making a buck and thats the real reason you fish, the joy and respect for the fishery has long gone over your heads, the fishery don't mean squat to you dudes unless you can make some $$$$$
Grimace Posted January 10, 2009 Report Posted January 10, 2009 I think your being a little harsh on the charter guys. I believe they have a great deal of respect for the fishery. There is a definite difference in opinions on the subject and I tend to lean your way in thinking about the resource and it's sustainability but to say that all they care about is money is a bit far fetched and judgmental on all charter guys. There is an answer out there, hopefully it is the best answer for everyone involved, if not everyone will have to adapt. Maybe even the river guys should leave the spawn alone and just use artificials. I have not heard of fish stocks being replenished in mesh bags in peoples freezers either. Everyone should work together on answers. Stone throwing is unresourceful.
canadadude Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Posted January 10, 2009 Sorry not to get on your case Steve because I know it is business for you but I think to keep a good Rainbow population alive in Lake Ontario we do need some changes to the way the fishery is managed. Perhaps I may have gone alittle to far in my comments towards your industry and I appologise, but I do feel somthing needs to be done because the returns are getting worse every year. You dudes may have not noticed it out when your chartering but us trib fishers have noticed the decline. I can speak from both areas I owned a boat and fished Lake O for over 20 yrs I know how it was in the 80's, 90's and now I trib fish and the stocks of fish entering our tribs is dying!!! There is a problem instead of whining , lets get on board to solve the diwindling stocks!!
canadadude Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Posted January 10, 2009 I think your being a little harsh on the charter guys. I believe they have a great deal of respect for the fishery. There is a definite difference in opinions on the subject and I tend to lean your way in thinking about the resource and it's sustainability but to say that all they care about is money is a bit far fetched and judgmental on all charter guys. There is an answer out there, hopefully it is the best answer for everyone involved, if not everyone will have to adapt. Maybe even the river guys should leave the spawn alone and just use artificials. I have not heard of fish stocks being replenished in mesh bags in peoples freezers either. Everyone should work together on answers. Stone throwing is unresourceful. I agree and I do apologise to fishmaster( Steve) he is one of the best charter dudes and in fact fishers I've met, and I do recomend his business to anyone!! Steve goes out of his way %100 to anyone using his services and if anyone is looking to get fish spring/ summer/ winter go see Steve in Dunnville or St Catharines for salmon the dude knows fish. We may at times not see eye to eye on fisheries managment I do have much respect for this guy and his passion for the outdoors, Steve is a strait shooter and I always enjoy his input on any topic wether I agree or not is always up for grabs hahahah! The man is however a great Sportsman weather hunting or fishing he does care and is master of all outdoor sports he persues, if you get a chance to visit his store or fish with him, you will not be dissapointed
BillM Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 bill and grimace, i see you dont do much blue zone fishing.... you cannot release a fish in 75 degree surface water, when they came from 55 degree water, for any amount of time. you can stop your boat, sit, and try as long as you wish....it isn't happening. imagine trying to catch your breath after a long run, in 100 degree heat. Steve, I can't say that I have done any blue zone fishing, unfortunately. I was just trying to compare these trout, to say muskie. Ski's also take quite a while to revive, but they do eventually swim away. Maybe I was assuming some people just didn't want to take the time to revive the fish and just kept them instead...
aniceguy Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 flopping them on the carpet grabbing them in the gills you may as well open the ice box......pop the hook with the fish in the net in water the flip it and push the fish down it has a decent chance.....Fish are pretty plastic on how much they can tolerate and actually survive...generally many dont survive on ice in a cooler......
wallacio Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 flopping them on the carpet grabbing them in the gills you may as well open the ice box......pop the hook with the fish in the net in water the flip it and push the fish down it has a decent chance.....Fish are pretty plastic on how much they can tolerate and actually survive...generally many dont survive on ice in a cooler...... 100% correct Louis. The notion of not being able to release Steelhead while 'rigging during the summer months is common misconception that I'd like to see change. Skip the photo op, keep them in the water when removing the hooks and they'll swim away almost every time.
dwc67 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 the key word is "generally" they swim away, my point is not all even the ones i don't let fall on my floor or use as a hammer.
aniceguy Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) I think delayed mortality on a fish that swims away is 3% for the palageic fish, muskies guys know full well how a cradled musky survives as opposed to one banging around in a net...as do bass guys when taking a smallie from deep water a simple fizz and many of them survive to see another day It is a huge misconception wallicio is right it needs to change Edited January 11, 2009 by aniceguy
live2fish Posted January 12, 2009 Report Posted January 12, 2009 ya swim 100 feet then go belly up in the 80 degree water.....maybe on a small boat that works fine but i know i cant reach the water leaning outta my seaswirl.
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