North American Auto Industry (nf) ~!

[OhioFisherman]

Cookslav, I had a 1986 chevette can`t say anything bad about it. I bought it used for like 1300 bucks and had it around 10 years. The timing belts would wear out but were easy to fix. Gas milage was good and I didn`t need to drive a fancy car to have it parked in the lot at work for 10 to 15 hours a day.

 

Never owned a foreign car, never had too many problems with the American built cars I have bought. I buy them used and drive them till they die or I find something better at a good price.

 

I am just guessing, but if chinese workers were allowed to speak they might not be real happy with their working conditions. A lot of the products you buy now come from countries that don`t let their workers have much say, or choice.

[holdfast]

People. READ CAA Autopinion or Consumers Reports. The only people happy with NA are mechanics, emploees, and of course the parts industry, not to mention the auto wreckers.

[seeking54]

Let's not forget Phil Edmonston's "Lemonaid" book! For those who don't know him, he used to be a consumer advocate for the NDP...........need I say more?

[danc]

Unfortunately it takes new buyers to discover a lemon.

[pigeonfisher]

Everyone has stayed fair and even tempered on this thread. Great job.

 

I have many thoughts on these issues and have enjoyed reading yours.

[Steve]

Holdfast, Consumer Reports rated the 2006 Chevrolet Tahoe a consumer best buy.

 

So, its not just all about the imports.

[Tybo]

Holdfast, Most if not all auto techs get payed flat rate,

This means the job is already worked out to the hours and price before

they even know whats wrong.

You don't make mechanics happy by dumping alot of work on them.

 

Mr V.P do you build a good product.

V.P, we don.t build it good, It.s great.

Technition, Thier a piece of junk. Don't even let your mother in-law buy one.

I'm going to buy it because the V.P said it's a great product.

As the V.P jumps into NA made Limo.

 

So true Dan.

Thats why I buy used.

 

 

HAVE A NICE DAY.

[bullybass]

I wholeheartedly concur that the big 3 are in definite trouble... however blaming things like worker salaries seems a bit ridiculous. The last time I checked it cost on average $300 000+ to purchase a house... $25 000+ to purchase a new car( nowhere near top of the line car ) how do we afford these things if our salaries are not commensurate with today's cost of living??? How many banks are going to say oh I see you work at the local restaurant making minimum wage plus tips... sure you qualify for a $300K mortgage... ya right. If the auto industry decided that the workers were getting too much and cut salaries and pensions what would happen?? Would the prices of their vehicles come down??? Heck no??? Their profits would soar and the upper management would reap the immense rewards that would no doubt come from this. If you look at the GM model... the union and company went to the members and in the face of Oshawa car plant shutting down asked for concessions on their current contract to secure future contracts and the members voted to do what they can to secure their jobs for the future of the company and of course for their future... so it is not all greed and more more more!!!!

 

GM has seen that there are problems... like warranty and have done something about this finally. They now have the best warranty in the industry on all there products.

 

They are in fact listening to the consumer. Now they just need to think about their design department and realize that they need to make an impressive looking car in order for today's consumer to want it. Like say the Camaro.... hopefully it will not be priced way too far out of people's budgets.

 

Just my two cents.... may not be worth one but hey there it is.

[Gary George]

Unionism was born out of communism.

 

We all know how successful that experiment was.

 

Ethics are the root of the problem overall.

 

Niether management nor unions apply quality ethics to the inustry.

 

That is the biggest thing that sets the successful companies apart in this.

 

President of Toyota, when told that his company was about to surpass GM replied with something to the effect of; that is not our goal, our goal is to make quality vehicles.

 

Being the biggest means nothing, being the best does and that is the glaring difference, the big 3 are far to focused on being the biggest.

[danc]

You have to consider planned obsolescence in the equation too. If they made vehicles that never needed repairs and lasted forever, they wouldn't be selling many parts or new vehicles in the future. But just how far do you go with this? I'm sure they could put a much better product on the market if they really wanted to.

[fishforfun]

There are 4 of us in my immediate family that work in the auto industry, we all drive NA vehicles. As a self employed tool maker I'm in and out of a lot of parts manufacturers plants as well as assemby plants. Quality Control is the highest priority in all these plants but 100% inspection is impossible and that applies to all manufacturers not just the big 3. The 1st thing the NA manufacturers need to straighten out is the relationship they have with their dealers. The majority of people who have problems aren't upset with quality, you can replace defective parts, it's service. The dealership is the front line representing the manufacturer and personally I wouldn't have a lot of them representing me. Very good discussion with some good thoughts going on here!

[seeking54]

So true RivRat! The Japanese view their bottom line as satisfying a need! Remember the old saying: find something you're good at and the $$$ will follow?

 

Even that GM is a publicly traded company, they’re backed by the U.S Government, they know it and the Unions know it, that explains why they are indifferent about their products ……….If their stock was doing well, like my Bank stock which tripled in the last 15 years……one could say well I’m making money with their stock!! But that‘s another topic……bring on the service charges .

 

True, Dan…….we saw it with the GM 283. The power train has to be bullet proof, and the vehicle safe. Everything else is of no consequence.

[glirw]

Our last vehicle purchase was a Hyundai .

 

We walked into Ford first , aggressive sales person wanted to push us into buying and when we told him that we are still comparison shopping he said : " okay go do your shopping then come back if you are still looking "

 

I tried to tell him that we want to stay and see what ford has to offer for a compact SUV or station wagon , he said , no , please , come back and see us after you're done .

 

I will never set foot in that dealsership again .

 

Nextt stop was Dodge , got into the caliber , it was small uncomfortable and felt very cheap , and they didn't have any other cars that were fuel efficient and attractive.

 

Chevy had a decent station wagon , but after we test drove it we were turned off . loud and uncomfortable compared to the Hyundai Tucson that we ended up buying . What's more , Hyundai gave much better warranty , and the car simply feels sleek , smooth , very fast for a 4 cylinder , and fully loaded from the box so to speak . Yes the Chevy was a TAD cheaper , but not enough to justify switching . Besides , even if it's cheaper , the value for the money was still better at Hyundais.

 

My personal story anyway.

To add onto that : Had a dodge caravan 1994 , good car , used it for a few years , upgraded to a 2000 Chevy Venture , decent car , bad electronics (check engine 24/7) , unexpected service here and there (some valves that kept breaking , etc) , sold that and upgraded to a leased Tucson .

 

I still drive a 1996 Chrysler Cirrus , it's an old car no doubt , with around 260,000 clicks , still going alright though , but definately soon to be moved to the scrapyard.

[OhioFisherman]

Unionism born out of communism? I guess that is one way of looking at it, sort of like our Union of states? We got tired of unfair taxation and had a little revolution? LOL

 

Actually if you wait for your employer to better your standard of living it might be a long wait. Even when Henry Ford raised the Auto workers pay to 5 dollars a day he had reasons behind it. He couldn`t keep employees, employee turn over was near 50%, and there were standards you had to meet to get that pay, a social engineering project. China probably doesn`t have that problem, show up here, work, or don`t eat, if that doesn`t work we have stronger measures.

 

Not a communist myself, and from what I have seen and read there hasn`t really been any true communist countries, just people fighting for control and calling it that.

 

Great debate though, you can disagree, and stay civil, LOL and friends. Most of us are stuck with what happens around us.