Tom McCutcheon Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) The reference to an MNR creel survey done more than a decade ago in the mid 90's may not be that accurate. When the MNR boys pull up to a boat and ask what has been caught, some folks may have inadvertently identified a small juvenile muskie as a pike. Very difficult to tell apart unless you take your time to look for the differences. The reference stands in the MNR literature to this day. If by chance someone were to catch a Pike on Pigeon, Buckhorn or Chemong and they were positive it was a Pike, I would be very interested in having that fish harvested for DNA analysis. The same holds for a Hybrid (if they are positive it is a Hybrid and of legal length of 44 inches). Obviously these specimens need to be bonked and I'm sorry, there is no other way to do a proper autopsy. You may contact me either through pm here or Tom McCutcheon Vice President Muskies Canada Inc. [email protected] Edited October 25, 2015 by Tom McCutcheon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehg Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 The reference to an MNR creel survey done more than a decade ago in the mid 90's may not be that accurate. When the MNR boys pull up to a boat and ask what has been caught, some folks may have inadvertently identified a small juvenile muskie as a pike. Very difficult to tell apart unless you take your time to look for the differences. The reference stands in the MNR literature to this day. If by chance someone were to catch a Pike on Pigeon, Buckhorn or Chemong and they were positive it was a Pike, I would be very interested in having that fish harvested for DNA analysis. The same holds for a Hybrid (if they are positive it is a Hybrid and of legal length of 44 inches). Obviously these specimens need to be bonked and I'm sorry, there is no other way to do a proper autopsy. You may contact me either through pm here or Tom McCutcheon Vice President Muskies Canada Inc. [email protected] The link i provided doesn't seem to work, but it clearly states that Pike and Tiger Muskellunge were NETTED by MNR staff during creel surveys around 2006. "Routine index netting and creel surveys have collected specimens of northern pike and tiger muskellunge (pike-muskellunge hybrids) on Pigeon Lake" It took about 20 yrs. for pike and tigers to entrench on Balsam. Good news seems to be that the musky fishing still rocks on Balsam despite pike. Now Balsam gets tiger musky/ pike there as well. Methinks Pigeon musky will be alright as well as there is plenty of deeper water available for successful musky spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCutcheon Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I am well aware of the MNR studies done in the past. Don't get me wrong....There is nothing like a 8 or 10 lb pike hitting your lure like a freight train. The concern is that the Kawartha Muskies have never had to defend their spawning sites from another predator and a lot of that structure is located in the shallower portions of all the Kawartha Lakes. It is what Pike consider to be prime real estate also. Some of the areas in the North end of Pigeon will continue to produce Muskies similar to what is happening on Balsam. However what we don't want to see happen is a situation like Mitchel and Canal or the Crowe River system where the Pike have displaced the Muskies. I don't believe we are ever going to stop the Pike migration. They are hear to stay. What needs to happen is further research to identify and protect the prime Muskie spawning habitat or we will lose the natural reproduction of the Kawartha Muskie and then it becomes a stocking situation. I don't think we want to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) I promise to kill every pike I catch in the kawartha's!! I haven't had the chance yet....thankfully! S. Edited October 25, 2015 by Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCutcheon Posted October 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) LOL I'm not preaching to cull the Pike. All I want is some samples for DNA analysis, stomach contents, Cleithrum bones etc. so it can be determined if they actually hatched and matured in Pigeon Lake or migrated from up or downstream. The same goes for a legal length Hybrid. These samples would be turned over to several biologists, the most noteworthy would be Dr. Castleman at Queens University. Edited October 25, 2015 by Tom McCutcheon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 I ate 5-6 pike from Balsam this spring. They were good, took about 10 minutes on ytube to fillet. So is the carcase enough for dna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big guy Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 My brother-in-law and I were fishing for pike on Mitchell, before the muskie season opened and he caught a 40" muskie. Quick measure and it swam away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCutcheon Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 For Garnet; As much as I appreciate the offer, we know that Pike are in Balsam now and have been for more than 20 years. Our MCI research on Balsam since 2009 has given the MNRF some valuable information regarding spawning sites for both Pike and Muskie. Many of those sites are overlapping. What we wish now is a better handle on the migration of pike throughout the system especially in the lakes such as Pigeon, Chemong, Buckhorn (upper and lower), Lovesick, Stony, Clear and Katchawanooka. If a Pike is harvested in these waters, would you please save me the whole fish? I can assure you it won't be wasted. You have my contact information at the top of this thread. Again please be sure it is a Pike and not a juvenile Muskie Thanks for your help. I probably should have been making this request at the start of the season instead of now when folks are thinking of putting their boats away and digging out the snow shovels... Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishindevil Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 There have been pike catches confirmed on Cameron lake as well as sturgeon lake !!!! I seen the picture of the one caught on sturgeon lake and the angler that caught it knows the difference and it was confirmed a few years ago they are coming down from the top end and coming up from the lower end as well !!!! Same as Haliburton they are here and will be here to stay no doubt about it !!! But good to spread the word and nice to be able to get a sample to 100% verify for the biologists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 I wasn't clear in I fish all those lakes and wouldn't mine donating the carcase. The whole fish for a little dna sample just seems to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCutcheon Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 I hear you Garnet. If was just DNA needed, a scale sample or slime swab would be sufficient. In order to determine the age of the specimen, the Cleithrum bone needs to be taken. This is located just after the edge of the gill plate. This bone shows the growth rate of the fish similar to the growth rings on a tree. The fishes stomach contents also need to be examined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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