Sorry Toronto

[Billy Bob]

But does that represent addional tax revenue; or just tax revenue from a different person? Their salaries are paid in part by ticket sales. Where would people spend their money if they didn't buy tickets to the game? If they would have other wise spent the money at local busesses, restaurants, bars, etc., then those tax dollars are not really additional taxes. It just means that players are paying income taxes instead of restaurants and their staff.

 

It is not that easy to figure out exactly what the true economic impact of a team had on an economy... it is easy to spin the facts though.

 

p.s. Re: Buffalo is the only team to play home games in NY? What about the Jets and the Giants?

 

Without the team there are 53 less MILLIONAIRES living in Buffalo, NY....so that's pretty easy to figure on....

[kickingfrog]

I want the Bills to stay in Buffalo and hope they do.

 

I enjoy the experience of going to an NFL game in Buffalo much better then T.O.

 

I am indifferent to Toronto having its own team. However the economic impact in a community of pro teams is almost always over stated/estimated. Tax dollars generated are offset by tax breaks, interest free loans and land deals below market value to billionaire owners. In the end the dollars are a wash. The un-measurable is the mood, spirit and general good will that a community can have when it gets behind a sports team.

 

BTW

The minimum salary in the NFL is below $400k. The max cap is $120 million and most of that is eaten up by a few key players, the bulk of the role players make less then a million dollars. And again, because at least half of their games are played out of state, county, city not all of their taxes go to the state, county, city they play in. Many of the players also live for more than 6 months in a different city then they play in. The benefits of tax money from 53 pros making part of $120 million is over stated when you are talking about billions of tax dollars.

[Billy Bob]

 

 

BTW

The minimum salary in the NFL is below $400k. The max cap is $120 million and most of that is eaten up by a few key players, the bulk of the role players make less then a million dollars. And again, because at least half of their games are played out of state, county, city not all of their taxes go to the state, county, city they play in. Many of the players also live for more than 6 months in a different city then they play in. The benefits of tax money from 53 pros making part of $120 million is over stated when you are talking about billions of tax dollars.

 

The total salary for the Buffalo Bills PLAYERS ONLY is $78,911,125...there are also many coaches, GM and others...some of who also make over a million per year....and it doesn't make any difference where the Bills play each week because their residence during the season is in WNY...so we would get ALL of their income tax money...but even if what you're saying is true (but it isn't)...we might even collect MORE income tax money because the visiting teams are more likely to be paid even more the the current roster on the Buffalo Bills...so NYS would collect their (visiting players) income tax money...

 

But as you have said and I concur....the money put into the stadium (135 Million) is a wash....and don't forget...if they were to leave the stadium and all it's improvements would still remain here and the property of Erie County.

 

For the current roster salary reference see here.....

http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/salaries/buffalo-bills-salaries/

[HyperActive]

I am pretty sure the N.F.L has much more smarts then the N.H.L.

 

There is no way the N.F.L will allow a team in Toronto. It makes as much business sense as putting hockey teams in the desert!!!

[Roy]

I am pretty sure the N.F.L has much more smarts then the N.H.L.

 

There is no way the N.F.L will allow a team in Toronto. It makes as much business sense as putting hockey teams in the desert!!!

 

Don't kid yourself. Most desert dwellers have a few dollars and would dearly love to sit near ice for a few hours anytime!

[HyperActive]

Don't kid yourself. Most desert dwellers have a few dollars and would dearly love to sit near ice for a few hours anytime!

 

 

Huh? have you not heard how Phoenix only gets 5/6000 at the games for $10.00 a ticket and even at that half are give aways?

 

 

 

 

 

[kickingfrog]

The total salary for the Buffalo Bills PLAYERS ONLY is $78,911,125...there are also many coaches, GM and others...some of who also make over a million per year....and it doesn't make any difference where the Bills play each week because their residence during the season is in WNY...so we would get ALL of their income tax money...but even if what you're saying is true (but it isn't)...we might even collect MORE income tax money because the visiting teams are more likely to be paid even more the the current roster on the Buffalo Bills...so NYS would collect their (visiting players) income tax money...

 

But as you have said and I concur....the money put into the stadium (135 Million) is a wash....and don't forget...if they were to leave the stadium and all it's improvements would still remain here and the property of Erie County.

 

For the current roster salary reference see here.....

http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/salaries/buffalo-bills-salaries/

 

 

I know almost squat about tax law, but I know enough to say that pro athletes don't pay all of their income tax based on the state, county or city that their team plays in. Many states, counties and/or cities collect taxes on visiting team athletes. You are right, if New York state collects taxes on visiting athlete the 8 (7 for the last 5 years) home games the Bills play do also generate tax revenue. These are not the everyday problems that you and I have.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/12/sports/sp-jock-tax12

[Billy Bob]

What also hasn't been address is how much the OWNER makes....he will also be taxed to death.....so now that 135 million doesn't look to bad after all, does it....

Edited December 25, 2012 by Billy Bob

[Toad Hunter]

I would LOVE the Bills to move to Toronto, Toronto fans LOVE supporting a losing team so it only makes sense . (And as a Fins fan, I would get to see them play a lil closer to home once a year ) - But Toronto's "tailgating" is a fricken joke

Edited December 26, 2012 by Toad Hunter

[kickingfrog]

Ya, billionaires are known for paying their share of taxes.

 

 

And just in case:

[ctranter]

Economists have proven that sports teams to not stimulate the economy for their respective cities. Entertainment is entertainment, and it has been proven that people will simply spend their money elsewhere.

[kickingfrog]

Yep, the money gets spent one way or another.

[John Bacon]

Without the team there are 53 less MILLIONAIRES living in Buffalo, NY....so that's pretty easy to figure on....

 

Not necessarily, some bar or restaurant owners who not currently millionaires may become one if the fans were at their places instead of the Bills games.

 

As already mentioned, the money spend on Bills games would be spent whether the Bill are there or not.

[Billy Bob]

Economists have proven that sports teams to not stimulate the economy for their respective cities. Entertainment is entertainment, and it has been proven that people will simply spend their money elsewhere.

 

I believe the point was made that the tax payers get all of their investment back in taxes....

[Billy Bob]

Not necessarily, some bar or restaurant owners who not currently millionaires may become one if the fans were at their places instead of the Bills games.

 

As already mentioned, the money spend on Bills games would be spent whether the Bill are there or not.

 

Since MANY bas here are SPORT BARS, having the Bills MAKES money for them...these places are empty other times of the week..but come Sunday they are filled to capacity...you should be seeing the same thing with your hockey team...oh, that's right...no hockey this year......

[ctranter]

I believe the point was made that the tax payers get all of their investment back in taxes....

 

Sorry but this is not properly explained. Perhaps you could elaborate.

 

As for the comment you made about full bars, you don't seem to understand macroeconomics. The money would get spent on other things, regardless if there is football or not. Sure, the bar owners would suffer, but the "other guy", who is not receiving the income that otherwise would be spent on entertainment, is profiting. No additional money is "injected" the economy. Now say, perhaps, that the bills were genuinely worth watching, and 20% more Canadians crossed the border into Barfalo, then you would see growth as an increase in spending has been triggered by consumers that would otherwise spend their money here. Comprende?

[blaque]

I think we should add another abbreviation to thread titles. In addition to NF we should add PA (pointless argument) or VC (viscious circle) or DET (dead end thread) or even IES (Internet economy specialists)

[Billy Bob]

Sorry but this is not properly explained. Perhaps you could elaborate.

 

As for the comment you made about full bars, you don't seem to understand macroeconomics. The money would get spent on other things, regardless if there is football or not. Sure, the bar owners would suffer, but the "other guy", who is not receiving the income that otherwise would be spent on entertainment, is profiting. No additional money is "injected" the economy. Now say, perhaps, that the bills were genuinely worth watching, and 20% more Canadians crossed the border into Barfalo, then you would see growth as an increase in spending has been triggered by consumers that would otherwise spend their money here. Comprende?

 

The first point was about the State giving the Bills 135 million but would make it back in taxes the players, workers and owner pays in income taxes...I believe that has now been established.

 

 

And for the second point you brought up....well you already made it for me...Because 15% of the season tickets are CANADIANS....