Junior Seau

[manitoubass2]

Blaque, I didn't take any offense to what u said, and didn't see it as nasty in any way. Ur actually bang on with ur comment. Only junior seau knows why he pulled the trigger, and no matter how much they dig, or probe his brian or make "educated" guesses, its still all speculation, only he knows for sure... And he won't be telling us anytime soon.

 

 

Totally agreed with you and Blaque. I took no offense at all to this thread or his posts

Edited May 5, 2012 by manitoubass2

[express168]

I have played football and were around people who did use steroids and there was a definate effect on their personalty and the infamous " roid rage". I will agree that under the direction of medical personal and dosed correctly that steroids will have little effect but these people taking them as amateurs are not under proper supervision and are not dosing properly. They are following the direction of dealers essentially, not trained professionals and are causing damage to themselves as a result.

 

As far as Junior Seau is concerned do I think steroids had an effect, no but I am also not a medical professional. This man spent 20 years in the NFL as a linebacker experiencing impacts similiar to that of a car accident repeatedly on a daily basis. All of us who played football would have experienced that slight blacking out for a few seconds after a good hit before your vision and recognition came back if not yo never really hit anyone that hard. Now imagine that at an NFL level, I was a fan of Junior Seau and he was a true gentleman of the game. I can't imagine what he was experiencing to drive him to take his life but I know it could not have been pretty if it was enough to take him away from his children. Lets hope none of us have to experience what he was experiencing, RIP piece Junior.

This is coming from someone who lost their own father to suicide and its not as simple as being a coward. I don't think it is a very easy decision for someone to take a bullet at their own hands.

[manitoubass2]

I have played football and were around people who did use steroids and there was a definate effect on their personalty and the infamous " roid rage". I will agree that under the direction of medical personal and dosed correctly that steroids will have little effect but these people taking them as amateurs are not under proper supervision and are not dosing properly. They are following the direction of dealers essentially, not trained professionals and are causing damage to themselves as a result.

 

As far as Junior Seau is concerned do I think steroids had an effect, no but I am also not a medical professional. This man spent 20 years in the NFL as a linebacker experiencing impacts similiar to that of a car accident repeatedly on a daily basis. All of us who played football would have experienced that slight blacking out for a few seconds after a good hit before your vision and recognition came back if not yo never really hit anyone that hard. Now imagine that at an NFL level, I was a fan of Junior Seau and he was a true gentleman of the game. I can't imagine what he was experiencing to drive him to take his life but I know it could not have been pretty if it was enough to take him away from his children. Lets hope none of us have to experience what he was experiencing, RIP piece Junior.

This is coming from someone who lost their own father to suicide and its not as simple as being a coward. I don't think it is a very easy decision for someone to take a bullet at their own hands.

 

Some very good points here, especially on the `coward`aspect.

 

Funny how you can notice `roid rage`though, when it`s a clinical anomaly. That being said, there is a distinct difference between anabolics and androgens, there ratios etc. What many people believe to be `roid rage`` is more often a psychological issue.

 

If one becomes moody and irritable, it`s usually from prolactin and progesterone, and other estradiols. Anabolics typically offer a sense of well being and calmness.

 

But certain steroids do increase aggression, but there hard to obtain and the aggressiveness ` is usually due to very high androgen content and binding affinity. These are not typically prescribed medications.

 

DHT based steroids are very different in action then anabolic type steroids. One reason professional athletes stayed away from androgens was that they often left joints feeling very stiff and dry, due to their lack of aromatization. They also have very short half lives and then, chemist altered the drug to extend half live via methylation. Methylation means it would bypass first pass metabolism in the liver, which would then make them mildly toxic. Not enough to kill you, but enough to show stress in liver values. This happened in the early 80`s, and is old news by now.

 

Again, I`m not trying to piss anyone off here, I`m just trying to educate and debunk very common myths

 

Also, before you condemn these compounds, maybe you should look into how many lives they save. AIDS patients, burn victims, the elderly, the list goes on...

 

Oh yeah, many a cancer patients as well, something I would think many on this board would appreciate, although it`s still very unfortunate set of circumstances.

 

and that bottom part is not directed at you express168... Just so you know

Edited May 5, 2012 by manitoubass2

[Gregoire]

Just saw that Junior's brain is being donated for research. Not sure what the results will be, but hopefully some answers will be found. If brain damage is found I think it would be a result of his football career. I do not know a lot about the research, but hope there is baseline data that is being used as a comparison.

[express168]

Manitoubass2 ,I am never going to say that steroids are not valuable in medicine. They have definately helped many for treatment in many applications. As for my experiences with the other athletes around me at the time I can't say that their personalty changes were from the steroid use or just them acting that way because they felt more aggressive because they believed they were tougher by using them. I do not know what type they were using and didn't care as it was their decision, all I could say is that having known these people before, during and after their use I noticed different personalities and levels of aggression. I can't attribute the reasons for it but the timing all lined up with their use. No worries about anyones comments here as this is a tough thing to understand as most of us could never imagine taking our own lives (myself included)and I hope the thought never comes across any of our minds. I will remember Junior Seau as the player he was as he really beat up on my Raiders when he was in San Diego, great linebacker and was heavily involved in the community from what I had read about him. I really feel for his Mom after seeing that news conference, it is interesting that he is the 8th player to pass away from the 94 Superbowl Chargers.

[kickingfrog]

I love football and hockey. I played both as well as rugby. I loved hitting people. I loved hitting people HARD. When I watched these same sports I wanted to see hits, big hits, hits to hurt. I now feel some unease when I see these same hits. The impact these hits have on people's brains is serious and permanent. I'm not sure what the answer is. But we are going to see more consequences going forward, not less.

 

Brain injuries are not just a part of these body contact sports either.

Female hockey with no body checking has some of the highest number of concussions. Concussions are also impacting baseball players as well.

 

I sometimes wonder about my own well being. I was never knocked out, never had any signs of a concussion but I did play a lot of games and never turned away from the rough stuff and initiated a lot of it. I can sit here right now and say I am fine, but in 20 years can I say the same thing? My son is 3 and likes to play hockey (his version at least) with me. I look forward to watching him play sports, but there is a part of me that wonders what if?

 

Nothing concrete here, just some Saturday musings while having a cup of joe.

Edited May 5, 2012 by kickingfrog

[manitoubass2]

Manitoubass2 ,I am never going to say that steroids are not valuable in medicine. They have definately helped many for treatment in many applications. As for my experiences with the other athletes around me at the time I can't say that their personalty changes were from the steroid use or just them acting that way because they felt more aggressive because they believed they were tougher by using them. I do not know what type they were using and didn't care as it was their decision, all I could say is that having known these people before, during and after their use I noticed different personalities and levels of aggression. I can't attribute the reasons for it but the timing all lined up with their use. No worries about anyones comments here as this is a tough thing to understand as most of us could never imagine taking our own lives (myself included)and I hope the thought never comes across any of our minds. I will remember Junior Seau as the player he was as he really beat up on my Raiders when he was in San Diego, great linebacker and was heavily involved in the community from what I had read about him. I really feel for his Mom after seeing that news conference, it is interesting that he is the 8th player to pass away from the 94 Superbowl Chargers.

 

Thats a great post, very logical.

 

The last sentence is troublesome.

 

Kickingfrog, I can understand where your coming from as well. All my kids (exception of my youngest daughter) all play sports. I'm worried too.

 

Me and fishgreg had a good discussion about kids and concussions as well...

Edited May 5, 2012 by manitoubass2

[uglyfish]

Most people in the world will suffer at least one concussion in their lifetime and likely never even know it,

 

Sports are so popular and publicized that concussions are brought to the fore front. And used as a blame and scapegoat in many instances. But I would bet that the number of concussions in sports pales in comparison to those suffered in car accident, household accident, kids playing and just normal life.

 

Each person is different, it only takes a slight bump to the head to suffer a concussion for some people, sometimes head contact isn't even necessary for some concussions.

[kickingfrog]

I'm not drawing any straight lines but this was in today's Globe and Mail.

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/modern-pharmaceuticals-becoming-part-of-the-culture-in-the-nhl/article2423588/

[Gregoire]

This post has evolved into a great discussion. It really has made me reflect on the value er place on sports, and the effect that the violence that we celebrate can take on the lives of not just professional athletes, but also young amateur athletes. Uglifish I understand where you are coming from, and definitely take issue with people who use a slight injury as an excuse, or a means for litigation, but I think there is a legitimate issue with concussion in sport that needs to be expressed. For me a major difference between someone who suffers a concussion in an car accident and while playing a sport is that a car accident is seen by society as being a tragedy, whereas a concussion in sport is often a result of a violent collision that is often celebrated and sometimes even a direct result of direct teaching and instruction by a coach. Just think about it, you never have anyone say "drive out there with you truck and knock the crap out of that civic." You often hear "you are bigger and stronger than that kid, knock the crap out of him."