"Dawn Patrol" WWI Fly-In

[Jonny]

Some of you seemed quite interested when I posted pictures of the flyable Canadian Lancaster WWII bomber a while back.

 

I thought I'd post some pictures I took at the Dawn Patrol WWI replica fly-in at Wright-Patterson AFB (Dayton, OH) on my recent trip there. (same trip that included Cabela's in Hamburg PA, which I posted pictures of a few days ago).

 

The WWI replicas are mostly 3/4 scale, but you'd be hard-pressed to tell because the only give-away is that the pilot's head looks a little large in the cockpit. There was a full-scale Fokker D-VII there - very impressive machine.

 

There were also a number of re-enacters there to add to the atmosphere.

 

The Nieuport 17 and SE-5A are the types in which Billy Bishop racked up most of his "kills".

 

Here are some pics for you aircraft buffs. Hope you enjoy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2009 by Jocko

[edmichit]

awesome and interesting. I still dont understand how they didnt shoot their own prop off with the gun.

[lew]

Thanks Jocko, you've got some great pics there !!

 

I missed your original thread with the pictures of the Lancaster but I'm assuming it's the one based at Hamilton ?? I've seen that old girl flying many times and she's still extremely impressive to watch.

 

Seeing as you have an interest in old planes, you may like this picture.

 

This is my Uncle Len (Mom's bro) about 1939. He used to deliver the Air Mail around Ontario in this old bird, although I don't know what make of plane it is. According to my Mom, he used to fly outta Buttonville airport north of Toronto. That old plane looks pretty rickety to me and I know for a fact I'd never fly in anything like that, but I spose things were different back in the day.

 

I have no idea what he's holding in his right hand, but I'm guessing it's something to do with the plane.........any ideas ??

 

He joined the Canadian Air Force at the outbreak of WW2 and became a bomber pilot. Sadly he was killed in action in 1943 along with his entire crew when the plane went down.

 

[bigugli]

awesome and interesting. I still dont understand how they didnt shoot their own prop off with the gun.

In the first years of the air war, fighters were 2 seaters with a pilot and a gunner/observer. Other aircraft had the gun mounted above the upper wing and fire above the propellor tip, but that required greater skill.

The nose guns on a WW I fighter were quite a marvel for their time. Trigger arm was connected to an interrupter devise that was synchronized directly to propeller pitch. Regardless of what speed you were flying the rounds passed between the blades

[Jonny]

This is my Uncle Len (Mom's bro) about 1939. He used to deliver the Air Mail around Ontario in this old bird, although I don't know what make of plane it is. According to my Mom, he used to fly outta Buttonville airport north of Toronto. That old plane looks pretty rickety to me and I know for a fact I'd never fly in anything like that, but I spose things were different back in the day.

 

Thanks for the feedback on my pics, Lew. That's a great old shot of your uncle. The plane, I'm almost certain, is a DeHavilland Moth - maybe a Cirrus Moth or a Gipsy Moth*. D-H produced quite a few variations on the basic Moth design. Note the square cockpit cutouts, the position of the struts, the gas tank in the upper wing, compared to the two pics I've attached...

 

I have no idea what he's holding in his right hand, but I'm guessing it's something to do with the plane.........any ideas ??

 

I'm thinking about it but nothing comes immediately to mind for a round container.

 

He joined the Canadian Air Force at the outbreak of WW2 and became a bomber pilot. Sadly he was killed in action in 1943 along with his entire crew when the plane went down.

 

One of many brave Canadians who gave their lives. May he rest in peace.

 

In the first years of the air war, fighters were 2 seaters with a pilot and a gunner/observer. Other aircraft had the gun mounted above the upper wing and fire above the propellor tip, but that required greater skill.

The nose guns on a WW I fighter were quite a marvel for their time. Trigger arm was connected to an interrupter devise that was synchronized directly to propeller pitch. Regardless of what speed you were flying the rounds passed between the blades

 

As you might also know, the first thru-the-prop setup was used by French pilot Roland Garros. It consisted of steel wedges placed on the back side of the propeller to deflect any shots that would hit the prop. It worked well enough but the bullet impacts would loosen the propeller after a while! I think it was Anthony Fokker who developed the interrupter gear. The Germans used it for the first time on the Fokker Eindekker, like the one in my pics above.

 

Nieport 17's used above-the-prop Lewis guns (see above). Late war SE-5A's had both a Lewis gun on the upper wing and a thru-the-prop MG. The Germans used only thru-the-prop guns, usually two MG's mounted above the motor in front of the pilot.

 

---

 

* Very likely a Gipsy Moth. Note the "half-moon" step in your picture for a mechanic to service the engine - also to be seen in the Gipsy Moth pic I attached. In the background, on the second plane, you can see a mechanic using the step!

Edited October 19, 2009 by Jocko

[Dusky]

Man... some of them look so unreal to fly!!

[Jonny]

Man... some of them look so unreal to fly!!

 

You bet! The closest I've ever come was a 20 minute flight in a 1930's Stearman biplane at the Canadian Aviation Museum in Ottawa. It was an awesome experience!

 

In good weather, an old plane is as safe to be in as modern ones. If your engine quits, you can use the good gliding characteristics and low stall speed to find a spot to set it down.

[Terry]

cool

 

and that's one nice Fokker

 

 

I don't know how Dehavilland made it in the aircraft business with a crate like that

[Whopper]

Jocko the Wright Pat AFM is in my back yard, probably the biggest attraction to our area besides the air show in July. I haven't been there for a few years or at least since they renovated it. May have to check it out once the weather turns nasty

Edited October 21, 2009 by Whopper

[Jonny]

Whopper, we spent an afternoon at the Museum as well - as you would know, it's right next to the Dawn Patrol venue. The building in the background behind the picture captioned "French Nieuport 17 - 3/4 Scale" is part of the museum.

 

It was well worth seeing but we ran short of time in a 4-hour visit. I could have used at least another hour or two.

 

We loved the Dayton area. You live in a nice place.

 

Man your liquor is cheap! A 66 oz "Texas mickey" of Canadian whisky costs over $50 here at home; in Dayton --- $15 !!!

Edited October 21, 2009 by Jocko

[irishfield]

Thanks Jocko ! Great mid morning break material there !.. now back to the hangar I go..

[Jonny]

Hey, you're welcome... glad you enjoyed the NF topic!

[bigugli]

Despite being a blue jacket, I've always loved the old crates from the earlier days of aviation. There were 2 planes I always wanted to fly in; a 'Shagbat', and a 'Stringbag'. There are no flyable crates around, but there is a rumour that they may have a shot at restoring one to flying condition

[Jonny]

I recognise "Stringbag" as the old Swordfish torpedo plane (biplane) - they type that torpedoed the Bismarck and jammed its rudder.

 

What's the "Shagbat"? I'm pretty good on planes but I can't recall hearing that one.

 

Here's the only biplane I've ever flown in... a Stearman... the pilot let me take the controls for about 10 minutes at 5000 feet over Ottawa... awesome experience.

 

Also a pic of your Stringbag (Aviation Museum, Ottawa)...

 

 

 

[irishfield]

Here's a couple I took of her from the other side 2 weeks ago.. what's the chances of that Jocko.. lol Younger daughter needed a day out with her Dad.. and that's where she wanted to take me!

 

BTW .. Shagbat is a Supermarine Walrus ..

Edited October 22, 2009 by irishfield

[bigugli]

Here's a couple I took of her from the other side 2 weeks ago.. what's the chances of that Jocko.. lol Younger daughter needed a day out with her Dad.. and that's where she wanted to take me!

 

BTW .. Shagbat is a Submarine Walrus ..

 

The 'Shagbat' was a flying boat used by the fleet air arm almost to the end of WW II. Easy to fold up, repair, was a versatile catapult aircraft.

 

It's not a Submarine Walrus. Supermarine was the manufacturer. Same famous company to make other great WWII aircraft.

[Jonny]

Here's a couple I took of her from the other side 2 weeks ago.. what's the chances of that Jocko.. lol Younger daughter needed a day out with her Dad.. and that's where she wanted to take me!

 

BTW .. Shagbat is a Submarine Walrus ..

 

Ah, good one, thanks. I know the plane. I think it's a Supermarine Walrus. Strange, uncommon old pusher-prop flying boat --- a bundle of struts and wires! There must be one in a museum somewhere.

 

The Ottawa museum is considerably smaller than the one at Wright-Pat but has a fair number of types that the USAF museum doesn't. It's also much more light and airy than the USAF museum, which has quite subdued lighting.

[Jonny]

It's not a Submarine Walrus. Supermarine was the manufacturer. Same famous company to make other great WWII aircraft.

 

The most famous of course being the Spitfire.

[irishfield]

Yah typo on my part... flying boat.. submarine.. lol.. Yes Supermarine.

 

Edited October 22, 2009 by irishfield

[bigugli]

Here's a couple I took of her from the other side 2 weeks ago.. what's the chances of that Jocko.. lol Younger daughter needed a day out with her Dad.. and that's where she wanted to take me!

 

BTW .. Shagbat is a Supermarine Walrus ..

 

Those are nice pics of the Swordfish. They were still doing work on the crate last time I was in Ottawa