MCTFisher9120 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Providing i get in i will be going to Sir Sandford Fleming College this September, Frost Campus (Lindsay). The program i will be taking is the 3 year Fish and Wildlife Technology program, from there i want to go even further and do the 1 year Natural Resources Law Enforcement program. I would love to know some stories of individuals who have gone to Fleming college, or know of people that have gone because i know nobody personally who has gone there. thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Mike, Congrats on continuing your education! Perhaps you think that you will become a CO after taking this course??.... I do not want to be the bearer of bad new but... this is not likely to be the case.. We have members here on our forum that have moved to BC to attend University (Not a community college) in the hopes that they have a shot of getting in... and even their chances are slim.. The number of CO's is down drastically from decades ago... That said, it is a great program and you will learn a ton!! But how will this diploma (Not a degree) help you in the working world? If there are no CO positions to be filled? If you are looking at getting into law enforcement perhaps look at Police Sciences or Criminology.. This diploma is about as useful as a Humanities degree in my opinion.... Sorry to be so point blank about it.... but it is the truth.. But I know members here have taken the course... and not one of them became a CO..... Food for thought. G. Edited January 7, 2009 by Gerritt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Ouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubris21 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I have some friends who have taken that exact program. Sounds like a pretty great program, they had nothing but great things to say about it, and some of the stories they tell about projects made me quite jealous. I do however need to agree with Gerritt, the chances of turning it into a career are kinda slim. None of my friends that have graduated are currently doing anything related to that field. If I could make one recommendation, I would look into some programs that are more directed towards forestry management, and environmental sustainability. I think there are more career opportunities and you're still focusing your education on the outdoors. With all that said, the best advice is to follow your heart, and get into what ever program is right for you, just work hard at it and you'll have no regrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillM Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 From what I've heard most CO positions are filled with ex coppers or OPP Tough position to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 It begs the question, why then do they continue to offer this diploma, especially the additional 1 year Natural Resources Law Enforcement add-on? It's a shame for the kids who spend 4 years hoping to become a CO only to find that they bought in to a false hope. They should put that program on hold until there is a viable market for that profession in Ontario. I mean, do they inform their students that they have a snowball's chance in hell at actually becoming a CO with that diploma? Or is it more like "sign up here, cheque please"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCTFisher9120 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Mike, Congrats on continuing your education! Perhaps you think that you will become a CO after taking this course??.... I do not want to be the bearer of bad new but... this is not likely to be the case.. We have members here on our forum that have moved to BC to attend University (Not a community college) in the hopes that they have a shot of getting in... and even their chances are slim.. The number of CO's is down drastically from decades ago... That said, it is a great program and you will learn a ton!! But how will this diploma (Not a degree) help you in the working world? If there are no CO positions to be filled? If you are looking at getting into law enforcement perhaps look at Police Sciences or Criminology.. This diploma is about as useful as a Humanities degree in my opinion.... Sorry to be so point blank about it.... but it is the truth.. But I know members here have taken the course... and not one of them became a CO..... Food for thought. G. Talking to the coordinator of the Fish and Wild Life Tech program he said that a lot(not all) of their graduates have got full time careers directly out of college doing things like: becoming conservations officers in Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba. There were a few that have become Fishery Officers for the department of fisheries and oceans, US forest rangers and things such as Police, RCMP, OPP...all of the opportunities are open to me. Fleming college graduates will have many opportunities and will I not be left working at MacDonald’s lol. I have done my research and have talked to 2 Conservation officers and the guys that run this program, I know of the risks but also the benefits. Even some were set up being Park Wardens....not completely sure but over the next few years there is suppost to be a lot if CO retiring...could be a good thing Edited January 7, 2009 by Mike The Bass Fisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 JB, As with any business, institutions of higher learning need to profit to pay their own salaries... so long as there are kids shelling out the $$ they will continue to offer the program... It should also be noted that there is a TON of competition out there for very few positions that do arise??.... having a simple diploma from a community college will probably not be enough to "beat out" the other applicants.... Hell our own Bill Parker moved to BC to attend UBC to try and get a leg up on the competition that is in the market place... again for the very few positions available.. G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Talking to the coordinator of the Fish and Wild Life Tech program he said that a lot(not all) of their graduates have got full time careers directly out of college doing things like: becoming conservations officers in Ontario So the guy that runs the program told you that a lot of their graduates got careers directly out of college becoming CO's in Ontario etc.. From what the unbiased posters in this thread have said , I have to tell you, it sounds a little fishy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Talking to the coordinator of the Fish and Wild Life Tech program he said that a lot(not all) of their graduates have got full time careers directly out of college doing things like: becoming conservations officers in Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba. There were a few that have become Fishery Officers for the department of fisheries and oceans, US forest rangers and things such as Police, RCMP, OPP...all of the opportunities are open to me. Fleming college graduates will have many opportunities and will I not be left working at MacDonald’s lol. I have done my research and have talked to 2 Conservation officers and the guys that run this program, I know of the risks but also the benefits. Even some were set up being Park Wardens....not completely sure but over the next few years there is suppost to be a lot if CO retiring...could be a good thing Your correct Mike... and I do wish you the best of luck in your studies and your career path... I am just looking at it from my side of the fence.. tens of thousands of kids taking these programs across Canada for a handful of jobs... do whatever it takes to make yourself stand out from the crowd... Perhaps Bill can help you out as well. Good Luck! Gerritt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 If you are willing to take the risk, and will not be dissapointed if you are working for another field when you graduate then I say go for it. I didn't have the balls, and opted for a much safer route but one that I am less interested in. Maybe you will turn out to be the happy one, and Ill be the CEO that works 95 hours a week with no time to spend his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCTFisher9120 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 So the guy that runs the program told you that a lot of their graduates got careers directly out of college becoming CO's in Ontario etc.. From what the unbiased posters in this thread have said , I have to tell you, it sounds a little fishy to me. I agree it may be, but a Conservation Officer who i did some of my community hours with told me that alot of their summer students some from fleming and they have maybe not became CO's but they have had other positions in the feild like the park warden, and fishery officer out on the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Wait just one second Mike... Why the heck arent you in school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCTFisher9120 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Wait just one second Mike... Why the heck arent you in school! lol, im going to the dentist in about 15 minutes to get my wisdom teeth checked out... and most likely pulled out in the next few days Edited January 7, 2009 by Mike The Bass Fisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 lol, im going to the dentist in about 15 minutes to get my wisdom teeth checked out... and most likely pulled out in the next few days Now there is something to say OUCH about! Drugs son... Drugs... Wisdom teeth SUCK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 JB,As with any business, institutions of higher learning need to profit to pay their own salaries... so long as there are kids shelling out the $$ they will continue to offer the program... I know this all too well. I changed programs after my first year in University when I found out from talking to recent grads what the real market value of the degree was. lol Needless to say, the program is still being offered because of the perceived value of the degree. In that case, most students realize after they graduate that the perception was based more so on the prestige associated with this particular degree, rather than real-world demand. My ex stayed in the program and never started a career in finance as she had expected. In this kid's case, you gave an excellent example in comparing his diploma to a humanities degree. Equally worthless. But, he is taking a program that is highly specialized unlike a humanities degree. He has or should have a reasonable expectation for employment in that field. Colleges have a reputation of excelling in this arena, and that's why kids attend them. Sadly in this case, his expectation is based on a false perception. Now, there was probably a healthy demand for this diploma when the program was first initiated, but as we see, demand for this diploma (available jobs) have all but dried up. If students will pay, of course the college will fill it. It's good business sense. However, you end up with 500 grads fighting for 5 CO openings and a program director telling his prospects that "a lot(not all) grads get jobs as CO's etc.." The college is essentially selling him a lottery ticket, when he was expecting a meal ticket. Although it may not make "business sense", it makes common sense for a college to suspend a program that does not fill a demand in the current job environment. After all, that's what colleges are there for. Or so I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I graduated from Fleming in a different program. I thought long and hard about taking the F&W program too, but there is just not as many jobs out there in that field. If your willing to travel around and keep doing contract work here and there, by all means.....go for it! I took the Environmental Technology program, and got a full time permanent job as soon as I graduated. ET is basically everything you need to know about water. There are lots of jobs in the environmental field, take a look sometime. The ET program has a breat job success rate, and most of the work is outdoorsy/field work. Check all your options first. I know a lot of people took the 2 yr F&W, then opted to take the one year ET program, and ended up working in an ET related field. I have lots of buds who took fish and they aren't doing any field related work at all. Fish is a great program, and you'll really enjoy it, which helps with your marks, but the jobs are hard to come by. You'd prolly end up at Trent U for more biology, or related coursed in order to get a good, permanent job. Just my thoughts, Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 I agree it may be, but a Conservation Officer who i did some of my community hours with told me that alot of their summer students some from fleming and they have maybe not became CO's but they have had other positions in the feild like the park warden, and fishery officer out on the ocean. I didn't see this post before I made my last post. That's cool, if there are other jobs other than CO that you are interested in that you can fall back on, then it's a little less risky! I had the impression that all you eggs were in the CO basket so to speak. I wish you all the best and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverowbotham Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Here goes... I just graduated the program, the third year of FW. I love the program and everything about it. Jobs.... there are jobs, but not many CO jobs if thats wha your looking for. I know 2 people from my time that got CO jobs. If you're willing to move, theres a ton of work. I have friends in BC, AB, YK, NWT, TX, MT, QC, WY all of whom have awesome jobs that they love.... notice a pattern?? If you stick to Ontario, its all contract work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Here goes... I just graduated the program, the third year of FW. I love the program and everything about it. Jobs.... there are jobs, but not many CO jobs if thats wha your looking for. I know 2 people from my time that got CO jobs. If you're willing to move, theres a ton of work. I have friends in BC, AB, YK, NWT, TX, MT, QC, WY all of whom have awesome jobs that they love.... notice a pattern?? If you stick to Ontario, its all contract work. Did you get a field related job when you were done? As much as I am a fish and wildlife nut, I'm glad I didnt' take the program. I'm sure I could have walked right through it with straight A's, but with a young family, it just wasn't the right thing to do!! I went back to school to get a full time permanent job........mission accomplished! Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soggey Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Graduated in 2000 from Fleming as an Aquaculture Tech. A program they dont offer anymore. Great school, learned alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anders Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Flemming Sucks! Sault College Rocks! Sorry...had to throw that in. Good for you for continuing your education. Like many of the previous posts here, i completed th F&W program at Sault College, and then decided to go for my GIS diploma. There just wasnt the jobs in Fish and when they were they were contract jobs. Not really the living i wanted. My job now is GIS. Keep your options open when you complete your degree. Also, food for thought, after college, look at universities to see if you can use your diploma for university credits and get a degree. Good luck in whatever you choose. Anders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramble Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Ahhh Fleming. I graduated 2 years of F & W. Best teachers i have ever come accross. I live with a 3rd year grad currently, we are both at trent furthering our studies. He is an Enviromental science major, and im doing a joint major between Enviro Sci and Biology. The CO route is a kind of a joke in my opinon. But to each their own. I know of guys who got the job they were looking for, but not in Ontario. A few even landed jobs with the DFO. Those guys have a real budget. Don't let a few nay-sayers crap on your goals, if you want it bad enough you can get it. But you should also remain flexable. Ontario F&W life work is a lot of contract stuff. But i have a friend who got in with the MNR at a hatchery and has fulltime work and good pay. The jobs are out their, but you have to be flexable. My room mate in college did 2 years of fish, found out about the contract work and took a year of forestry. 3 years of college 2 diplomas. You will be far better off in the wildlife field then any of these kids who just do straight University. Uni doesnt teach you much in the way of identificaion and management the way fleming does. College Diploma and Uni degree are a killer double team. If you do 3 years of fish you can get your honours in Biology in 2 years from Trent. How awesome is that? The reports you do in 3rd year at Fleming are harder then 4th year university class, so you will be well prepared. Good luck man, some of the best people i have ever met went to that school. There is no where else like it in the world. Anyone else here ever skinned a 500lb black bear with their prof on a class room floor? -R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCTFisher9120 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Ahhh Fleming. I graduated 2 years of F & W. Best teachers i have ever come accross. I live with a 3rd year grad currently, we are both at trent furthering our studies. He is an Enviromental science major, and im doing a joint major between Enviro Sci and Biology. The CO route is a kind of a joke in my opinon. But to each their own. I know of guys who got the job they were looking for, but not in Ontario. A few even landed jobs with the DFO. Those guys have a real budget. Don't let a few nay-sayers crap on your goals, if you want it bad enough you can get it. But you should also remain flexable. Ontario F&W life work is a lot of contract stuff. But i have a friend who got in with the MNR at a hatchery and has fulltime work and good pay. The jobs are out their, but you have to be flexable. My room mate in college did 2 years of fish, found out about the contract work and took a year of forestry. 3 years of college 2 diplomas. You will be far better off in the wildlife field then any of these kids who just do straight University. Uni doesnt teach you much in the way of identificaion and management the way fleming does. College Diploma and Uni degree are a killer double team. If you do 3 years of fish you can get your honours in Biology in 2 years from Trent. How awesome is that? The reports you do in 3rd year at Fleming are harder then 4th year university class, so you will be well prepared. Good luck man, some of the best people i have ever met went to that school. There is no where else like it in the world. Anyone else here ever skinned a 500lb black bear with their prof on a class room floor? -R- Thanks for the advice, the thing is i would love to move to another province and get that job that i need. There is nothing wrong with change and i would love to do something like this. But im pretty sure this fish and wildlife technology program is a 3 year program now...and my plan was to take the Natural Resources-Law Enforcement program as my "2nd step". I think i was misunderstood by people thinking i want to be a conservation officer and nothing else. The good thing with these programs is that they open the door's to very many oppurtunities and options once completing college. And after every year working as a summer student with CLOCA would be a great deal of experience for myself. I have only done about 40 hours of community service with CLOCA and i have loved every minute Edited January 7, 2009 by Mike The Bass Fisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Anyone else here ever skinned a 500lb black bear with their prof on a class room floor? No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. lol, are you serious? That's pretty wild! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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