Leader with Braid?

[MCTFisher9120]

ok ok i see a lot of post of people needing to use a mono or fluorocarbon leader with braid lines. My only reason for not using braid is to put on a leader. Can the fish see braid line and do i need to make a extra thing and tie on a leader. Does anyone not use a leader and still have good success even in clear water?

Edited July 24, 2008 by Mike The Bass Fisher

[Rich]

I don't use a leader. If the water is gin clear and calm I use straight mono. For some lures it won't matter, but if you're tossing senkos or other slow moving, natural looking baits you'll want your presentation to match. Not too many live animals fall in the water with a black cord sticking out of their nose. lol

[timmeh]

Not only is water clarity important I use a leader depending on the presentation I'm using. If I'm using soft plastics or a finese presentation like this I use a leader. However for faster presentations such as spinnerbaits and trolling I sometimes don't use a leader if the water is murky. In clear water I almost always use a leader. It's not that hard to quickly tie on leaders once you learn.

[setomonkey]

I always use a fluoro leader, check out the other thread about breaking off braid. I'm not too concerned about visibility for fish, but trying to break off heavier braid is not easy!

 

Mike

[cranks bait]

The only line I use is Power Pro braid. Except for one that is going to be ripped off tonight, did not like it at all (invisibraid). The only time I use a leader is when I know I am trolling for pike. I always tie drect to my lures. I fish very clear water that is calm at times and a good "walleye chope" at others. I never have a hard time getting fish of any size.

[Garry2Rs]

Let's start at the beginning...Fish Don't Reason. Their brain is the size of a pea.

They don't know or care if there is a TV set a telephone pole or an anchor rope attached to the bait.

What they don't like is "drag."

Drag is the side pull caused by wind or water current pulling on the line. This causes the bait to fall or float in an unnatural manner. By using fine leaders fly fishermen reduce drag. They also "mend" the line...That means they throw slack line up-stream, or up-wind, so that the current doesn't effect the drift of their fly.

 

For Senko's I use red ten pound PowerPro. I use ten pound PP because it's the diameter of two pound mono or fluorocarbon. I don't have any problems in gin clear water. I always throw slack into the line...this allows a free fall, and also acts as a strike indicator...When the line move faster than normal I have a bite.

Garry2R's

[Dabluz]

I stay away from any kind of leader. Fluorocarbon has been a disaster for me and I won't touch that stuff again.

 

However, I do use very fine braid or fusion line because, first of all, compare 20 lb braid against some 8 lb mono and you will see that the mono is smaller than the braid. It's not true that 10 lb braid is the size of 2 lb mono. I use 2 lb mono for brook trout and there is a huge difference. 4 lb test Fireline is about the size of 2 lb mono.

 

When walleye fishing, I either use 4 or 6 lb mono if the bottom is clean and the water not very deep. Otherwise, I use 6 lb or 8 lb Fireline. 6 lb test Fireline is about the size of 4 lb mono yet breaks at over 12 lbs.

 

I've often compared (with someone else in the same boat using the same lure or jig) similar sized mono to braid or fusion lines and there is no difference in the number of bites. However, there is a good difference between 4 lb mono and 8 lb mono when using jigs. All I can deduce by this is that size of the line matters but not the colour or the composition of the line.

 

Yes, braid and fusion lines can snap when there is a sudden shock applied to them. This has happened only once......in mid-air during a cast and once when striking hard when there was slack in my line and my jig was jammed on a snag. But, since we should never strike when there is slack in the line (there should never be slack in the line anyway) and since we don't have to strike very hard with almost zero stretch line in order to get a good hook set, even the problem of snapping the line is eliminated.

 

Yes, I bought 20 and 30 lb braid when they first came out. I regret that because I still have some on my reels. Braid and fusion lines break at about twice their rated strength. I now buy thin braid and fusion but still use thin mono for fishing with live baits for brook trout because braid and fusion sink which makes slow presentation of live baits difficult.

 

The only time I use metal leaders is when I am fishing for pike. I make my own metal leaders with 49 and 54 strand steel leaders that are as fine as 4 or 6 lb mono. This stuff is very difficult to find and very expensive. I get mine from Europe.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Dabluz

[BillsTheBassMan]

I stay away from any kind of leader. Fluorocarbon has been a disaster for me and I won't touch that stuff again.

 

I am still pretty new to fishing with braid. I have been using fluoro leaders since I started with braid this season. What were your problems with fluoro?

[Uncle Buck]

I've started using it the last year or 2, does it make a difference? honestly i don't know, but it can't hurt, that's my logic

you spend all this money on rods/reels/fishing gear/lures/boat/ downriggers why not spend the little extra and buy flourocarbon

[BillsTheBassMan]

I've started using it the last year or 2, does it make a difference? honestly i don't know, but it can't hurt, that's my logic

you spend all this money on rods/reels/fishing gear/lures/boat/ downriggers why not spend the little extra and buy flourocarbon

 

Yeah, that is my logic on the whole thing as well . . . . but if it can actually hinder instead of help, I'd like to hear how! Other then the obvious break-off with a fish on of course . . . . that's why I've been working on those leader knots of mine.

[Garry2Rs]

Two pound Stren is advertised as being .006 in diameter so is Ten pound Power Pro.

Fireline doesn't give their diameter because the line is not round. The fibers are fused together and the tread that is formed is oval.

Twelve pound test Trilene XL is .013 diameter so is forty pound Power Pro. However Power Pro does compare that diameter to ten pound mono, which isn't really a lie since 10 pound Trilene TX is .0135.

Other brands of Braided line are offen larger in diameter than Power Pro because PP is wound under tension to produce a tighter weave.

Edited July 24, 2008 by garry2rs

[Rich]

Let's start at the beginning...Fish Don't Reason. Their brain is the size of a pea.

 

Then explain to me how a steelhead in a creek knows to jut sideways if he sees your line coming at him cross-current? Or will inspect a roe bag with a line attached for minutes yet if you toss loose roe in they'll eat it up?

 

In fact, if you remember my little stint in Peterborough the first time we met, at the tournament on the Lower Ottonabee.. Curtis and Reid won that tournament because I convinced them earlier in the week by example to use mono instead of straight braid in those clear waters. For 3 hours straight I caught bass after bass, good ones too, on straight mono. Reid had the exact same setup and caught maybe 2 bass. Curtis, well he never caught anything but musky.. but that's Curtis. LOL

[Dabluz]

Yes....as I mentioned earlier.....I much prefer clear monofilament when fishing with live bait or bait in general. It is still more effective than any other line of equal diameter.

 

I'm surprised that 2 lb Stren is only .006 inches in diameter. Most of the other companies have the same size of mono except for a couple of companies like Tectan which have a finer monofilament. The diameter of Stren mono is usually larger than the other monos of equal rated strength. Notice that I used "rated strength" and not real breaking limit.

 

Fluorocarbon line is stiffer than mono. It sinks quickly. It's very difficult to tie consistently strong knots in fluorocarbon line. It is said to have less stretch but the tests that I have done (hanging a weight on the line and measuring the stretch without weight and then with weight) have shown me that fluorocarbon stretches just as much as most of the monofilament lines on the market except maybe for Trilene XL which has more stretch than the others. I have also used 15 lb test Vanish fluorocarbon leader material as leader material for fishing through the ice. My 8 lb test monofilament was more resistant (snagged on the logs that littered the bottom of the river)......the fluorocarbon broke at the knot even though I took carefull attention in tying and lubricating my knots.

 

As a main line, I tried 6 lb test Berkley Vanish fluorocarbon for brook trout. The stuff was horrible to cast and was not as resistant as my 4 lb test Sensithin monofilament. On top of that, I was shore fishing with just a baited hook and nothing else. The line quickly sank and hook ups on snags on the bottom were a constant problem.

 

I tried 35 lb test Seaguar leader material on the end of my 10 lb test Fireline. Everytime I snagged on bottom, the fluorocarbon broke so I used 8 lb test mono. The mono was more resistant.

 

Yes, fluorocarbon is clear and may even be invisible in the water but I can't depend on it.

 

Yes....pros flaunt fluorocarbon but I don't trust everything a pro says. They are paid to say things by companies that make and or sell fluorocarbon.

 

The strongest and the thinnest braid is Mason Tiger braid. Power Pro is a couple of classes lower in quality.

 

Look at the article about resistance to abrasion and other information about lines on this site. It's very informative. http://www.sportfishingmag.com/article.jsp...;categoryID=262

 

Then there is this article about the strength of lines on this site : http://www.sportfishingmag.com/techniques/...ngth-53412.html

Edited July 25, 2008 by Dabluz

[Garry2Rs]

The word is Drag. Those lake fish up in that thin water are a edgy as a virgin bride.

The roe bag with no attachment drifts down stream just like every live worm, caterpillar and bug in the river. The one attached to your rod is pulled slightly off coarse, by the current pushing and pulling on the line that is stretched across the water.

I talked about fly fishermen, mending their line and using yards of spider silk for leaders...but Float guys also know this, and that's why they use 12 and 13 foot rods, with super light line and reels so well ballanced that they will spin if you breath on them.

 

Try this...Tie a 4 or 5 foot piece of heavy line...12 or 15 or even 20 pound test to the roe bag and throw it in...The fish will take the roe bag line and all, because the line and roe float freely without drag.

The fish isn't smart, it just ignores or is spooked by something that acts unnatural.

As for the Ottonabee adventure, I don't know. Braid floats, perhaps this caused more drag in the moving water of the river, than mono did. But if mono works in that case, sign me up! I won't argue with success...grin. Just don't expect me to go back to that "bungee cord on a spool" plastic line for all around everyday fishing.

[Garry2Rs]

By now I'm sure everyone knows that Braid 101 says that you chose braid by the diameter you want, not by the pounds test!

So I don't think much of the 20 pound line class test. The braid would be much thinner around .008 or .009 the plastic would be about .020 so what this test proves is that thin braid abrades fast that fat plastic...I think I could have figured that out with wasting all that line...HAHAHA.

Hundred pound braid, would stand up much better and would still be thinner than some of the plastic lines tested. Still it wouldn't win, because it's made of thousands of microscopic fibers. None of those little fibers is very abrasion resistant.

However, in the real world the only time this test would mean anything is if you were fishing for a line class record.

Otherwise 20 pound Power Pro is most suitable for light spinning. It is after all about the diameter of 6 or 8 pound test mono.