Do fish learn not to bite lures?

[jimvanm]

I've always wondered: if a fish is caught and released, does that fish remember enough to not do it again? Even if the fish does do it again, does it retain anything of the experience(s) that might give it an edge, and increase it's odds of living to a ripe old age?

 

I know fish are not really considered to be very intelligent, but they sure seem crafty sometimes. I always wonder if the very few, very rare fish that live to be the king of the lake are somehow different. Do they know something that the other fish don't? Is it just a series of random chances?

 

I think everyone has heard the "goldfish only have a three second memory" concept, but the news is that this has been disproven. It would seem that Goldfish can learn: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1645894.htm

 

If that is true of goldfish, might a fish with a bigger brain remember that the last time it tried munching on that shiny thing, bad things happened? How often does a fish get caught more than once?

 

If anyone knows of any studies that have been done on the subject, that'd be cool, but any opinions or experiences would be just as fun to have.

[Guest skeeter99]

absolutley they do

 

they become more conditioned

 

that is why when new baits come out you get them good and then after a few years they have seen it and you say to yourself I used to hammer them on this lure, and another is old lures and techniques will come back again cause you are throwing and doing something different than the other guy

 

 

but this really only applies to high pressure lakes and waterways, backlakes and out of the way places fish do not see many lures and will bite

 

I have caught the same fish 17 times, I used to put tags on them that i got from the states with individual numbers on them

 

after being caught he could be caught 2 days later roughly **under that same tree** LOL!!, there have been studies in the U.S> on bass and it is also roughly 2 days after being caught that it will bite again. That is why guys who pre fish tournaments do so without hooks, they just feel the weight of the fish and eventually it lets go

Edited July 4, 2008 by skeeter99

[DANIMAL]

I have read a lot of studies on this in in-fisherman magazine, and they all suggest that fish do get conditioned to lures, line, or even a specific type of livebait.

This is why on remote lakes with very little fishing pressure the fish bite almost anything. And why on heavily fished lakes the fish get picky.

[jimvanm]

So the best lures are gonna be the ones that make 'em angry.

 

Kinda like a drunk in a bar. Somewhere in his head he knows he's gonna get a good arse-whooping, but he still heads in there swinging ...

[Rich]

I dunno, I've had bass come around 5 seconds after release and nail the same lure. Rare though. Yeah I think they get conditioned, especially on smaller waterbodies. I know carp do for sure.

[JohnF]

They certainly learn behaviours through conditioning. I had a tropical fish once upon a time, a big guy, a Pacu, who learned to recognize me. The tank was close to a chair I sat in at night to watch tv. When I was alone in the room he'd press his nose right to the glass and hang there as if he was trying to get close to me. If anyone else came into the room he'd retire to a semi-hidden corner at the back of the tank.

 

Even in the wild they learn where to go for handouts. The stingrays of Grand Cayman are a classic example of that. Just offshore of Key Largo there's a fair-sized green Moray that's grown a little too accustomed to being fed by hand. One day I hovered just out in front of his lair in the reef and sure enough he came undulating out at me within seconds. He bumped me in the chest, then twisted around so he could poke his nose inside my bcd pocket. He found nothing there so he went around behind me and poked into the pocket on the other side. When he found nothing there it was almost like he shrugged, then retreated to his hole again. At one point I had his tail sticking out under my right arm and his head under my left. Of course my wife was freaking about this monster attacking me and forgot to take a pic. I guess I shoulda warned her that I had heard about this guy from other divers.

 

JF

[jimvanm]

(snip) ...there's a fair-sized green Moray that's grown a little too accustomed to being fed by hand. One day I hovered just out in front of his lair in the reef and sure enough he came undulating out at me within seconds. He bumped me in the chest, then twisted around so he could poke his nose inside my bcd pocket. He found nothing there so he went around behind me and poked into the pocket on the other side. When he found nothing there it was almost like he shrugged, then retreated to his hole again. At one point I had his tail sticking out under my right arm and his head under my left. Of course my wife was freaking about this monster attacking me...(/snip)

I would have been so scared I'd have been sick to my pants.

 

I love fishing but I don't think I could handle swimming with them. As a kid I'd even get worried if a swimming pool was too deep. I tried swimming in the Trent river once. I was so scared I couldn't enjoy the swimming.

 

I hate having phobias, though, so I tell myself one day I'm gonna take the bull by the horns, learn to scuba dive, and then do one of those shark tours or something. Still, I'd better wear diapers just in case. Do they make man-sized Pampers Splashers?

[splashhopper]

when the trout season opened this past spring, I caught four rainbows with other hooks still in their mouths.

I was able to remove most of the hooks on three of the fish before i let them go.( all had some line attached to them)

 

These hooks were all in the #10-#12 size so I am assuming there were from roe bags and those bows are gonna eat the roe that is presentred to em i would think.

 

Howevere, on a little "honey hole" i go to, it doesn't matter what we throw at em. If those bows can see us, they ain't biting nuttin.

[ccmtcanada]

I don't know what you are talking about.

 

Every fish I have caught has bitten my lure....

[JohnF]

I would have been so scared I'd have been sick to my pants.

 

I love fishing but I don't think I could handle swimming with them. As a kid I'd even get worried if a swimming pool was too deep. I tried swimming in the Trent river once. I was so scared I couldn't enjoy the swimming.

 

I hate having phobias, though, so I tell myself one day I'm gonna take the bull by the horns, learn to scuba dive, and then do one of those shark tours or something. Still, I'd better wear diapers just in case. Do they make man-sized Pampers Splashers?

 

I'm not a big fan of the commercial shark dives. On the other hand, you really don't need to pay extra to see sharks. There are lots of them if you pay attention. They're typically among the more timid of the reef type fishies and the first sight of them is usually the tail fin as it scoots away from you. The exception is the nurse sharks. They tend to just hang around the reefs or circle out on the flats and ignore divers. I've actually been able to get close enough to pet one (just on the back, mind you).

 

The big fish, most fish for that matter, tend to ignore divers, treat us like other fish. I've been within a few feet of some very large muskies up in the St.Lawrence, literally rubbed shoulders with Tarpon & Barracuda in the Caribbean. I know we have other divers here who will confirm that. Most fish aren't particularly aggressive towards divers in the water. Most of the trouble with large fish attacking humans involves the humans swimming on the surface, doing a pretty good job of imitating seals and wounded fish.

 

JF

[Cudz]

Here is one for you. Bass tournament. Had a big smallmouth break off a tube jig. Came back 5 mins later hit the same colour/size tube jig. The first tube was still in his mouth only a bit further down. Not the smartest fsih in the world.

Edited July 4, 2008 by Cudz

[jimvanm]

I'm not a big fan of the commercial shark dives. On the other hand, you really don't need to pay extra to see sharks. There are lots of them if you pay attention. They're typically among the more timid of the reef type fishies and the first sight of them is usually the tail fin as it scoots away from you. The exception is the nurse sharks. They tend to just hang around the reefs or circle out on the flats and ignore divers. I've actually been able to get close enough to pet one (just on the back, mind you).

 

The big fish, most fish for that matter, tend to ignore divers, treat us like other fish. I've been within a few feet of some very large muskies up in the St.Lawrence, literally rubbed shoulders with Tarpon & Barracuda in the Caribbean. I know we have other divers here who will confirm that. Most fish aren't particularly aggressive towards divers in the water. Most of the trouble with large fish attacking humans involves the humans swimming on the surface, doing a pretty good job of imitating seals and wounded fish.

 

I know it my head that it's an irrational fear. Even Great Whites are supposed to be pretty much uninterested in humans. Mostly they just take a test nibble and then spit us out. But of course a nibble from a mouth full of 6 inch teeth...

 

The reason that I'd want to conquer it is because I know it's not rational. It wouldn't have to be sharks; anything that triggered the fear would be enough.

 

I have also heard that having panic attacks underwater is pretty dangerous, so I'm not planning anything recklessly stupid anytime soon. I'll be happy to stick to fishing for a while :-)

[JohnF]

I know it my head that it's an irrational fear. Even Great Whites are supposed to be pretty much uninterested in humans. Mostly they just take a test nibble and then spit us out. But of course a nibble from a mouth full of 6 inch teeth...

 

If a Great White or a few other flavours of shark came snooping around, I'd be outa the water pdq. Fortunately, we don't see them regularly where I've done most of my diving.

 

Diving is a great way to see the fish in their natural environment unstressed by a fisherman stalking them or tempting them with flashy fishy delicacies. I think it helps to imagine what's going on down below the boat when you're in the boat targeting the little guys. In a sense you learn to almost think like a fish - at least a pretty stupid fish.

 

As for the panic attacks, that's kinda s.o.p. for most new divers. I think we all have them to some degree at first. I can still remember when the realization hit me that I was swimming along the bottom of Georgian Bay all by myself about 80' from the surface. I became very determined to find my buddy. A bigger one was when it sunk in, very suddenly, that I was about 1,000' back in a limestone cave under the Yucatan jungle with about 20' of rock between me and air if I could go the short way. The long way was to swim back those 1,000' to open water. It's very very very black in those caves. That was a moment I remember clearly. It was one of those "give yer head a serious shake" times. After that it was all good. There's nothing wrong with a diver having a healthy respect for the situation. Only a fool doesn't do that. The trick is to not let the panic take control.

 

Try diving if you ever get the chance. It's a lot of fun.

 

JF

[Greencoachdog]

They don't get big and fat by being stupid!

[fishboy]

absolutley they do

 

they become more conditioned

 

that is why when new baits come out you get them good and then after a few years they have seen it and you say to yourself I used to hammer them on this lure, and another is old lures and techniques will come back again cause you are throwing and doing something different than the other guy

but this really only applies to high pressure lakes and waterways, backlakes and out of the way places fish do not see many lures and will bite

 

I have caught the same fish 17 times, I used to put tags on them that i got from the states with individual numbers on them

 

after being caught he could be caught 2 days later roughly **under that same tree** LOL!!, there have been studies in the U.S> on bass and it is also roughly 2 days after being caught that it will bite again. That is why guys who pre fish tournaments do so without hooks, they just feel the weight of the fish and eventually it lets go

 

I caught the same smallie (MNR tagged) Saturday and Monday of the opening weekend using the same bait and within 20 yards of the same spot.

[MoriaRiverMan]

Ill go out on a limb on my own and say no......

 

I dont think they have jugdement skills.......

 

I cant believe a fish will sit there and make a decision whether a bait is real or not based on a passed experience .......

 

I dont see people buying fish and teaching them tricks........ Shows me they dont hold learning abilities.......

 

I think they work on a instinct bases. Very simple creature that works on needs based funtions.

 

Probally wrong....... but worth the post

[Greencoachdog]

Ill go out on a limb on my own and say no......

 

I dont think they have jugdement skills.......

 

I cant believe a fish will sit there and make a decision whether a bait is real or not based on a passed experience .......

 

I dont see people buying fish and teaching them tricks........ Shows me they dont hold learning abilities.......

 

I think they work on a instinct bases. Very simple creature that works on needs based funtions.

 

Probally wrong....... but worth the post

 

You don't think these fish have learned that there is food here and how to take it?

[danc]

Fish are instinctive creatures. As far as I know they don't process any thoughts. If it looks like food, and they're hungry, they'll hit it. They don't have the option of opening the fridge and having a look around when they're hungry. They take what they can get. I don't believe that they get conditioned to certain lures.

[Greencoachdog]

Fish are instinctive creatures. As far as I know they don't process any thoughts. If it looks like food, and they're hungry, they'll hit it. They don't have the option of opening the fridge and having a look around when they're hungry. They take what they can get. I don't believe that they get conditioned to certain lures.

 

 

That's because you don't live where the fishing pressure is heavy enough Dan, how many other boats do you see out on the water on an average day?

[danc]

That's because you don't live where the fishing pressure is heavy enough Dan, how many other boats do you see out on the water on an average day?

 

That's a good point Glen. I see very few, if any other boats on the waters that I fish. But apparently we're talking about intelligence here. Are fish intelligent? I'm not sure. Are humans? Supposedly they (we) are. Yet few of us think nothing of eating fatty foods, smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol etc. Some do, but you and I don't.

 

 

Temptation is a dangerous thing. Doesn't matter how smart you are. If you want it bad enough, you'll go and get it. Even if you happen to be a fish.

[JohnF]

Fish are instinctive creatures. As far as I know they don't process any thoughts. If it looks like food, and they're hungry, they'll hit it. They don't have the option of opening the fridge and having a look around when they're hungry. They take what they can get. I don't believe that they get conditioned to certain lures.

 

Then why do we try to "match the hatch"?

 

JF

[danc]

Then why do we try to "match the hatch"?

 

JF

 

I use jigs for Brook Trout and Rapala Countdowns for practically everything else. No hatch matching for me. Sometimes simpler is better.

[timmeh]

Personally i do not believe they become conditioned to certain lures. The reason you match the hatch is that they instinctively search out certain foods, and if you can match that your odds are better. Fish instinctively know what food looks like and behaves like. So for example if you use a tube to imitate a crayfish but present it wrong (in a way a crayfish would not act) that fish will instinctively know that somethings not right. But if the next person presents the bait in a more natural way that fish will hit.

 

I suspect the reason that fish appear more finicky on pressured lakes are due to a combination of factors.

1. there may be fewer fish in high pressure lakes, so of course you'll get fewer fish there.

2. heavy fishing pressure also creates negative stimuli that makes fish wary, like high boat traffic. So no matter what lure you use if boats and jetskis are tearing up the water fishing will be tough. As mentioned before when a trout senses your presence, it's very tough to catch. In high pressure areas fish certainly sense something unnatural is occuring It may not be your lure that looks unnatural to them, it may simply be your presence or that of the other hundred boats on the lake.

 

I've caught fish with hooks in their mouths, i've had fish that have got off only to turn around and re-hit the lure a second time. If they don't remember that quickly I would think it's unlikely they remember over being caught over time. Like Dan said fish can't really select what they want to eat, they make instant decisions.

 

Tim

Edited July 5, 2008 by timmeh

[danc]

I read an article in a fishing mag a few years back about a guy that had caught a limit of Walleye. He kept them in his live well until he reached the dock. The guy was very proficient in cleaning fish and could do so without penetrating the rib cage. So he proceeded to clean his live fish and threw the carcasses back into the lake. Not long after, someone came down to the dock and started to fish. Soon after he had a fish on the line. What he had caught was one of the still alive filleted fish with no flesh attached to it. Tell me that fish had a memory and didn't bite out of instinct???

[jimvanm]

I read an article in a fishing mag a few years back about a guy that had caught a limit of Walleye. He kept them in his live well until he reached the dock. The guy was very proficient in cleaning fish and could do so without penetrating the rib cage. So he proceeded to clean his live fish and threw the carcasses back into the lake. Not long after, someone came down to the dock and started to fish. Soon after he had a fish on the line. What he had caught was one of the still alive filleted fish with no flesh attached to it. Tell me that fish had a memory and didn't bite out of instinct???

 

Well, that fish had obviously lost a lot of weight and was probably just trying to build back the lost muscle mass ;-)

 

That is a whole new method of fishing. We should call that catch-fillet-and-release.