icefisherman Posted December 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Not realizing you had a couple of extras there,(livewell, etc,) those could also be routed to a deep cycle that runs in parallel with your main motor through an isolator. That's easy enouogh to do. Again keep the kicker to run the 'riggers. Fisherman, got your idea about separating the draw between the two batteries and each motor having its own (deep cycle) battery. Having said that...why do I need isolator if each motor will have its own independent battery to charge and the two motors and the two batteries will not have any connectiong what so ever in between? Cheers, Ice Fisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Sure keeping them seperate is the easiest solution. Just be sure to, like they've said, carry a jumper cable long enough to connect them if you kill your main battery trolling for too long with the kicker as you can' t just step out and restart a boat like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keram Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 I think we are getting there...together...that is until Wayne dumps another picture on me now ha ha ha Can't tell you how much I appreciate your input guys! Keram, would you agree that my kicker is not a "regular kicker"....been HIGHT THRUST kicker must mean something...i.e. running at higher RPMs than a normal kicker and been thrust model also having higher amperage output at lower RPMs because theese motors are designed to be kicker motors? Cheers, Ice Fisherman Lets see: I could be wrong ,but would you agree that my kicker is not a "regular kicker"....been HIGHT THRUST kicker must mean something The High thrust in my opinion is relevant to the "mechanical performance" not electrical higher amperage output at lower RPMs - impossible, considering that it is the same alternator like in "regular kicker" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 As for the high thrust... it's geared LOWER yes..just like my 9.9 pro kicker. That said.. mine is barely off idle pushing my boat at 1.8 MPH At that speed it doesn't put out enough electical power to keep up with my hydraulic steering pumps drain + the Lowrance so I have to disconnect the power feed to the hydraulic pump. It does stay nicely ahead of the radio/Lowrance/etc though and will keep you charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted December 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Ha ha ha Wayne, I like more your text (and especially your visual reply) this time. ;-) Considering the main battery (deep cycle) will have connected to it only: AM/FM (light draw) Nav. Lights (light draw) Interior Lights (light draw) Fishfinder (light draw) Livewell (moderate draw/continuous) Bildge (moderate draw/occasional) It should not get killed easily I hope. If it does...I can have those jumper cables or it is very easy (already tried that) to remove the other battery and bring it back to replace the dead main one in order to start the main motor. Just two nuts to unscrew and it is done. Cheers, Ice Fisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 (edited) I have always thought that the high thrust engines were designed for pushing sailboats and such. I believe they have a lower gear ratio in the lower unit and a larger propeller. Beat me to it Wayne. Maybe a nice little Honda inverter generator,and forget all the battery's. Edited December 9, 2007 by Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POLLIWOGG Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Ok The Red Green way to do what you originally asked for. Got any old fords out in the yard? remember those old floor mounted dimmer switches, you need 2 of those, cheap high amp switches from a wrecker or brother in laws car. They have 1 common and 2 switched terminals, figger em out with a meter. Run the common terminal to the positive of a battery, one of the switched terminals to the big motor and the other to the kicker. Do the same for the other battery. Join the two + terminals of the batteries with heavy cable and a high amp on off switch for the option of charging both batteries and boosting. Both batteries have common grnd. Now the problem is those old dimmer switches you can't tell what position they are in so you have to have a volt meter on each battery. I think what I would do is charge the starter battery with the big motor and the house battery with the kicker, and join the two with an on off switch or relay, switch the two together when running long distances with the big motor and separate them when you shut down the big motor . The problem with isolators is you loose .5v through the isolator and we don't expect much out of the kicker so we want to use all we get. You still want to charge them at home as boats only used to run 3 lights and look at all the stuff we got on them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Fisherman, got your idea about separating the draw between the two batteries and each motor having its own (deep cycle) battery. Having said that...why do I need isolator if each motor will have its own independent battery to charge and the two motors and the two batteries will not have any connectiong what so ever in between? Cheers, Ice Fisherman You would only need three batteries, 1 deep cycle/marine starting for the kicker and run the 'riggers. Then 2 batteries, 1 starting for the big motor and 1 deep cycle for the remaining accessories, lights, vhf, F/F, livewell, etc. Those two batteries are kept separate through an isolater only for the reason that when the big motor is not running, you will never run down the starting battery and be stranded. However whenn the big motor is running, it will charge both of those 2. If I can figure out how to draw some schematics for you, I'll do it a later today and post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschirk Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 (edited) Just curious... I stayed away from isolators because they general use an arrangment of diodes to protect from reverse current flow( discharge) BUT if I recall correctly there is a price to pay in the .6V volatge drop across the diode? Dosn't that mean then the 13.8vdc feed to my battery is now 13.2? And therfore reduced current flow? Edited December 9, 2007 by Ted & the Gadget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Use a battery switch. This connects your cranking batts. One batt for big engine one for small. There is three position on the switch. one position for the big engine, which will be in this state to charge your big engine batt. Position two will be for the kicker, starting and runnig riggers. Position both is used for when your batts are top off and keep a even charge between the two. Now to start. hook up all your electric components (except the riggers) to batt one. which will be your main cranker. the kicker batt you hook up the riggers too. When the kicker can't produce enough amps to keep the batt sustained. You start the main, let it charge, then switch to batt 2, letting the main charge the kicker batt. you also do this running from spots when both batts are equelly charge you place the switch on both to keep them top off. Myself wouldn't run deep cycles. they are harder to charge. Unless you have a alternator that produces 60 amps or more. If I remember right.A rigger can draw 8 to 15 amps. So if you are not work the riggers hard the kicker should be able to charge the kicker batt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 When the kicker can't produce enough amps to keep the batt sustained.You start the main, let it charge, then switch to batt 2, letting the main charge the kicker batt. you also do this running from spots Not questioning your electrical prowess, but, I question running the main motor with switch in position 2, feeding power to the kicker battery and the kicker, don't know if the kicker alternator would like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 If the alternator diodes can handle a full batteries available current and not blow...feeding it another alternators output ain't gonna hurt it. Consider..do you disconnect your alternator when you throw a charger on your batteries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keram Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Not questioning your electrical prowess, but, I question running the main motor with switch in position 2, feeding power to the kicker battery and the kicker, don't know if the kicker alternator would like it. The kicker alternator won't even notice. Diodes in the bridge rectifier (in voltae regulator) will have "blocking" polarity to any DC current, preventing it to reach alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 Okay, I'll buy that, wasn't quite sure how much those diodes were capable of blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 Wayne,Keram, You guys are soooo smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowPoke Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 It's actually a stator and rotor but we'll let it slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keram Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 It's actually a stator and rotor but we'll let it slide. When we are at it, you've forgot to mention housing, bearings or bushings, few nuts and bolts and some washers but we will let it slide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowPoke Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 When we are at it, you've forgot to mention housing, bearings or bushings, few nuts and bolts and some washers but we will let it slide There is no housing. There are no bearings or bushings. You are absolutely correct about a few nuts and bolts... washers may very by manufacturer. The stator is stationary and the rotor is motor driven. The rectifier and regulator (if equipped) are not packaged neatly together within a housing (with stator and rotor) as you would find in an alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 Don't be so sure Brian.. I'll pop the cowling off for you next time! Belt driven Alternator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowPoke Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 Don't be so sure Brian.. I'll pop the cowling off for you next time! Belt driven Alternator! Your motor is a circus side show act... find another outboard with a 6-71 blower on it! I'm almost confindent enough to say ALL OTHER outboards don't have an alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keram Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 There is no housing. There are no bearings or bushings. You are absolutely correct about a few nuts and bolts... washers may very by manufacturer. The stator is stationary and the rotor is motor driven. The rectifier and regulator (if equipped) are not packaged neatly together within a housing (with stator and rotor) as you would find in an alternator. I hope I start to understand what you are talking about. You are right that "alternator does not has to has housing. The magnets can be embeded in the engine itself ( stator), but the rotor must has bearing or bushings. It rotates all the time when motor is running The rectifier and regulator (if equipped) There is no "if" here. Alternator generates AC current, This current has to be rectified and regulated to supply correct current to any electronic equipment and to charge your battery ( if you do not believe try to charge your battery, or run any electronics piece on the AC current from the wall plug ( with "step down transformer - to 12 V AC. I won't work and I do not want to be in your house when you try this. The rectifier and regulator (if equipped) are not packaged neatly together within a housing (with stator and rotor) as you would find in an alternator. This comment suggest that you have older motor ( I do not know ), and as such you do not have alternator, instead you have DC generator, as the name says it generates DC current ( but still has to be regulated), you do not want to charge your battery with 13V at idle and 50V at WOT) I hope. This was a technology in 1960 - 1970 ( +/- few years ) On other post you've said I'm almost confindent enough to say ALL OTHER outboards don't have an alternator. Any outbord with battery charging capabilities must have alternator and there is no if's, but's and or's here. I think we slide little bit from an original question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowPoke Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 I hope I start to understand what you are talking about. ...On other post you've said Any outbord with battery charging capabilities must have alternator and there is no if's, but's and or's here. I think we slide little bit from an original question. We'll agree to disagree. Next year we can discuss it further while fishing from my boat that does not have an alternator or a regulator! -Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPD Posted December 11, 2007 Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 Only the newer style higher horsepower motors and some four strokes have actual automotive style alternators. The rest have the stator and rectifier which charge while the fly wheel rotates around the coils with magnets attached to the fly wheel. (which is still a type of alternator but not automotive style that is belt driven) Most of the newer motors are changing over however. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybo Posted December 11, 2007 Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 Most, regular 2 stroke still use the stator system. For their is no need for large amperage. Just spark and charging. If it's a EFI you need more power to keep the fuel rail open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowPoke Posted December 11, 2007 Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 Okay, it took a little while to find this for Emil's motor.... No bearing, no bushings, no alternator... The reason for my persistance is not so much to prove I'm right but because Emil had asked me through email about where to find the alternator... everyone keeps talking about an alternator. There is no dang alternator! LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now