Never been happier to be Canadian

[gussser]

both countries have their flaws, but America needs to take the PROFIT aspect out of the system, health care is a human right aint it

Which country's constitution states that health care is a "human right" ???? Personally my health care is provided by my employer as it is for most people I know. This does not lower my wages below what a comperable canadien job pays; therefore you could say I have "free " health care & the best money can buy. Mike Moore IS a communist propogandist. Perhaps being a northerner, he should take advantage of a dietary doctor for free. He doesn't seem to pass up a meal.

[bucktail]

In neither rich country Canada or the USA should anyone not be able to see a doctor.

Both countries are PLENTY rich enough to have health care for all there citizens. I sure hope in the future both countries fix the person before worrying about the bill!

[Canuck2fan]

I have had a lot of experience seeing how severly sick people in my family have been dealt with in the Ontario health care system. In the space of 20 years 3 family members developed severe types of cancers. I have to say with only one or two very small exceptions the care has been TREMENDOUS. The amount of time, effort and compassion shown those individuals was PRICELESS. The people giving care at all levels went through hell trying everything possible, the end result however was that 3 of these family members did pass away in the end. Do I hold the health responsible for their passing no, the fact is we will all die at some point. I am thankful though that in all three cases, my family members were treated with respect, kindness and allowed to pass away with dignity, when the treatments available didn't work. I am also especially thankful that because they lived in Ontario their families are not in debt, and or homeless because of the cost of the treatment required.

 

With respect to the American system I can only go by what I learned from talking to some people I know who work within it. To me it seems it is even more of a lottery than ours on what type of care you can get. If you have unlimited resources you can get good care. If you don't you might get good care, or even no care. To me that seems just WRONG for a country that likes to boast all the time about how they are the greatest country in the world.

 

Both systems need work no question about it.... The biggest issue Canada would have with going with a dual public and private model is that we simply don't have enough people to fund both models. Even the super rich in this country who think they want a private option on top of leaving the public system for the poor folk like me intact don't seem to realize to even begin to approach the options available in the U.S. they would have to still pay 50 to 75% of the taxes they do now. That would allow the public system to continue. For their "private" system they would need premiums 4 to 10 times higher than the U.S. to fund it. I don't see too many people with that kind of money around. Also if they have that kind of money it makes more sense to do what all the muckidee mucks do now. Run to the U.S. get what you can afford there when necessary. Which I continue to urge people who can afford it to do as that will continue to free up to a certain extent our public services for those of us who aren't in a financial position to jet south for care.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Canuck2fan

[gussser]

Taxes are a way that lets Canadians support fellow Canadians in times of need , and get the same treatment in return .

 

So I understand; Gas taxes help fellow Canadians buy gas???? Taxes on food help other Canadians buy food????AND certainly Taxes on your fishing liscence will help other Canadians get free fishing liscences???? Wow how Great.----Didn't the FAILED Soviet Union try these collective ideas??? I do believe that is partially to blame for their DOWNFALL. Are we to the south to expect " THE UNION OF CANADIAN SOCIALISTS REPUBLICS" ; soon????

[gussser]

I have had a lot of experience seeing how severly sick people in my family have been dealt with in the Ontario health care system. In the space of 20 years 3 family members developed severe types of cancers. I have to say with only one or two very small exceptions the care has been TREMENDOUS. The amount of time, effort and compassion shown those individuals was PRICELESS. The people giving care at all levels went through hell trying everything possible, the end result however was that 3 of these family members did pass away in the end. Do I hold the health responsible for their passing no, the fact is we will all die at some point. I am thankful though that in all three cases, my family members were treated with respect, kindness and allowed to pass away with dignity, when the treatments available didn't work. I am also especially thankful that because they lived in Ontario their families are not in debt, and or homeless because of the cost of the treatment required.

 

With respect to the American system I can only go by what I learned from talking to some people I know who work within it. To me it seems it is even more of a lottery than ours on what type of care you can get. If you have unlimited resources you can get good care. If you don't you might get good care, or even no care. To me that seems just WRONG for a country that likes to boast all the time about how they are the greatest country in the world.

 

Both systems need work no question about it.... The biggest issue Canada would have with going with a dual public and private model is that we simply don't have enough people to fund both models. Even the super rich in this country who think they want a private option on top of leaving the public system for the poor folk like me intact don't seem to realize to even begin to approach the options available in the U.S. they would have to still pay 50 to 75% of the taxes they do now. That would allow the public system to continue. For their "private" system they would need premiums 4 to 10 times higher than the U.S. to fund it. I don't see too many people with that kind of money around. Also if they have that kind of money it makes more sense to do what all the muckidee mucks do now. Run to the U.S. get what you can afford there when necessary. Which I continue to urge people who can afford it to do as that will continue to free up to a certain extent our public services for those of us who aren't in a financial position to jet south for care.

As any South of the border to US can tell you, Go to the emergency room of ANY hospital & they can NOT refuse you FREE treatment. The cost is passed on to those whom do carry insurance.

[love2fishhave2work]

Taxes are a way that lets Canadians support fellow Canadians in times of need , and get the same treatment in return .

 

Moreover it's a way that lets us ensure that the least among us are cared for.

 

I think the bottom line here is that , the free market should not be allowed to take care of things that are vital to one's life , such as education, healthcare, policing, firefighting , 911 , and so many others .

 

Why ? Because just like with healthcare, the market puts a price on everything , and when companies are profit driven, they have to make the tradeoff between saving a life and saving money. Or with education, the tradeoff is whether to ensure a solid education for all students vs. more money saved on school equipment, salaries, facilities, etc.

 

Guess which alternative capitalism tells us to choose ? Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Sorry but your hypothesis is wrong. Nothing is more precious then a human life and the market will value that better then some politician. When companies are profit driven they bring efficiency into the system or they loose out to a competitor who is more efficient. On the other hand, politicians and buracrats play with people lives for votes and their personal jobs as opposed to what is in the individuals best interest. Then they drive accross the border to get treatment for themselves or call their buddy who is the surgeon or diagnostics administrator. It is the politician who decides on lives vs. money. How many lives do you think would be saved if people could get an MRI within 24 hours rather then 4 months for testing of unknown symptoms that could prove fatal due to the delay. Fact we have several hundred PET machines (full body scans for cancer and heart problems) sitting in storage because the Ontario government, the only government in the western world does not have enough clinical data on the machines benefit. Right. I guess money has nothing to do with that. BTW for $1500 you could go and get a scan by a PET in Mississauga this week. I thought everyone was equal under our system?

 

I would like to think that my life and the life of my loved ones has a price and that it is very high. Why should i be able to pick which vehicle i want to drive, which TV i want to buy, what house to buy and who to get my mortgage from to get the best deal for myself but not have the same options when it comes to my health, the most precious thing to me. When the doctor knows that if you don't like their advice or treatment you can take your business elsewhere, trust me he or she will take effery effort to provide you with quality care. That is what i want. When our health administrators have to worry about where their salaries comes from we will all be better off. I will take capitalism any day of the week when it comes to my life. As for the guy who can't afford insurance, i will gladly pay for him through my premiums, just like i pay today for auto insurance which spreads risk accross all who use it and let that individual have the same ability to judge his or her health professional by controlling how that money is spent. Capitalism works, just need to know how to use it.

[Steve]

if you truely need an MRI, like i have needed after my last three seizures, i've had them within 24 hours.

[Canuck2fan]

As any South of the border to US can tell you, Go to the emergency room of ANY hospital & they can NOT refuse you FREE treatment. The cost is passed on to those whom do carry insurance.

 

Ummm sure they can't refuse you.... under the "law" It does happen all the time though. They refuse you but letting your rot in the waiting area. They refuse by rerouting your ambulance. They also only have to administer emergency care. They do not have to get you continuing care. If you can be patched up and stabilized you are out the door. If you need followup proceedures that often isn't covered. Also if you CAN pay you have to pay eventually. The corporations "hospitals" will use any method up to and including seizing your assets "house/car" until they get the money. How do I know this happens I used to talk about this very subject with a woman that had the job of verifying HMO coverages and the patients assets in order to pay at a county clinic.... in California.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Canuck2fan

[danc]

I've been looked after quite well in Ontario. Whatever has been wrong with me, I either go see my doctor, visit a walk in clinic or go to emergency. My most serious visit to the hospital was when I broke my pelvis about 10 years ago. By the way, you don't want to do that. Trust me. Anyways, I was looked after very well and have no after effects to this day. My father had colon cancer two years ago and is as healthy as ever for his age today. I have nothing to compare our health care coverage to, but it's been good to me. And never has anyone asked me for a dime.

[love2fishhave2work]

if you truely need an MRI, like i have needed after my last three seizures, i've had them within 24 hours.

 

You are not getting my point. I am not talking about needing an MRI because you and your doctor know you have a history of seizures. I am talking about going to a doctor, complaining of stomach cramps, they can't find anything wrong with you and send you for a routine MRI. That line my friend will move slowly, maybe as long as 6 months. 6 months to someone who may be walking around with cancer is a long time. Friend of my wife died just because of that 5 months ago and that is not even the example i am ticked off about. Where you live plays a role in how quickly you get in. Again to everyone that has had a great experience with our healthcare system. That is great, you should not expect anything less. Frankly I would expect most people do. However, many have not and the reason they have not is because there is absolutely no accountibilty in our system to the patient. In addition, you cannot compare our healthcare system today to the one 10 years ago. Much has changed and it is not for the better. I am talking about the exceptions and not the rule.

 

Thing is in my mind there should be no acceptable level of "oh well 95% of the people still get good treatment so what if we loose a few votes along the way" That my friend is a problem.

[Golfisher]

An article from the Globe and Mail, not exactly known as a commie newspaper:

 

Globe and Mail Article

[love2fishhave2work]

An article from the Globe and Mail, not exactly known as a commie newspaper:

 

Globe and Mail Article

 

You are right about the paper. This is most likely an editorial. What would one expect the writter "President and CEO of University Health Network, Toronto" to say?

[oxcowboy]

well first of all, i wouldnt trade a used helicopter lure to watch every so called documentary that moore has put out! i think the man is one of the biggest hippo-crits on the face of the earth.

 

i also get my insurance through my employer(teacher). as of right now it is very good, although we as a teachers union have to fight hard to keep it at this level everytime our contract is up. if i have to go to the doctor i pay 10 dollars and the same to get a prescription filled. i fellow teacher that i work with had a triple bipass surgery that cost him 30 dollars. you cant beat it.

 

the problem with the current u.s. system that i see is these piece of crap bums that get free medical attention, free prescriptions and everything else just handed to them. Now im not talking about the average working man or woman that doesnt have a great job which has no benefits, im talking about the people that are to lazy to breathe if there body didnt do it for them. my wife is an ER nurse and sees these type on a daily basis. people come in wanting to get free vicadin, percasets and any other prescription pain pills that they can either sell to kids or crush up and snort for themselves. she had a woman recently that lived directly across the street from the hospital, we are talking less than 100 yards from the emergency room call an ambulance to carry her fat donkey on a stretcher into the ER because she had a tooth ache for the past week! What a waste of time and money seeing her and taking up space in a overcrowded emergency room. yet these people get the same treatment someone with insurance gets. another thing that gets me in our system(U.S.) is that i can go to a dentist and get a tooth pulled and they will bill my insurance about 400 dollars if i go in and have no insurance they will pull my tooth for about 150 dollars. our govt. needs to step in and stop this kind of price gouching and then maybe more small buisnesses could afford to get there employees some health care.

thats just the way i see it, burns my rear to see people abusing govt systems with my money.

 

jason

[danc]

well first of all, i wouldnt trade a used helicopter lure to watch every so called documentary that moore has put out! i think the man is one of the biggest hippo-crits on the face of the earth.

 

i also get my insurance through my employer(teacher). as of right now it is very good, although we as a teachers union have to fight hard to keep it at this level everytime our contract is up. if i have to go to the doctor i pay 10 dollars and the same to get a prescription filled. i fellow teacher that i work with had a triple bipass surgery that cost him 30 dollars. you cant beat it.

 

the problem with the current u.s. system that i see is these piece of crap bums that get free medical attention, free prescriptions and everything else just handed to them. Now im not talking about the average working man or woman that doesnt have a great job which has no benefits, im talking about the people that are to lazy to breathe if there body didnt do it for them. my wife is an ER nurse and sees these type on a daily basis. people come in wanting to get free vicadin, percasets and any other prescription pain pills that they can either sell to kids or crush up and snort for themselves. she had a woman recently that lived directly across the street from the hospital, we are talking less than 100 yards from the emergency room call an ambulance to carry her fat donkey on a stretcher into the ER because she had a tooth ache for the past week! What a waste of time and money seeing her and taking up space in a overcrowded emergency room. yet these people get the same treatment someone with insurance gets. another thing that gets me in our system(U.S.) is that i can go to a dentist and get a tooth pulled and they will bill my insurance about 400 dollars if i go in and have no insurance they will pull my tooth for about 150 dollars. our govt. needs to step in and stop this kind of price gouching and then maybe more small buisnesses could afford to get there employees some health care.

thats just the way i see it, burns my rear to see people abusing govt systems with my money.

 

jason

 

Wow.... I hope you're not an English teacher.

[oxcowboy]

No way dan, i teach vocational agriculture, wood and metal shop. im sure there were a bunch of sentence fragments and incorrect spelling, just blurting out my feelings. lol

 

jason

[Photoz]

This MIGHT be off-topic, slightly, but I think I'd like to see an expose on dentists done by Mr. Moore . . . . now THERE'S an industry where you can get treated as a second (or THIRD) class citizen, and get the bum's rush out the door if you're not insured & have no money in this great country of ours!! After my last check-up, I got a bill for X-rays & cleaning, plus repairing a SMALL chip off a front tooth (didn't even require freezing, took 15 - 20 minutes) for SEVEN HUNDRED & FORTY DOLLARS. I have insurance (Post Office), but I STILL had to pay nearly $200.00!! So o o o . . . . what does a guy . . . or single Mom (NOT on welfare) do if their kids need dental work, and they're not insured? As EVERYBODY knows, bad teeth may not KILL you, but they sure can make life H E L L !! And just TRY to get work done if they think you can't pay . .. GOOD LUCK!!

[musky_man]

Of course Michaels Moore's exaggerates -- what movie form the US and most other places is not an exaggeration -- but he does it to make a point - that being the richest country in the world leaves out 40 million of it citizens from decent medical care -- and that is inexcusable for a developed country.

 

Got nothng about being a "commie" or anything else - has to do with doing what's best for the people as a whole ... has to do with building a better, more compassionate society .. not just for those who have the $.

 

The Canadian system is far from perfect, but trust me when I say, what most Americans here about the Canadian system is filtered by US special interest groups that have lots of $ to protect.

 

My 2 cents.

[blaque]

Hell Yeah!!!... open that can of worms Bubba!!!

 

Someone needs to design an "emoticon" that has the yellow head spewing coffee thru his nose. Cuz i almost did when i read this LOL For now, this guy will do >>>

[Hellfish]

wow great thread i dont have much to type here, but my bro in law is a dentist in Niagara Falls and like someone else stated he charges the ins company what the average dentist would charge them, but he totally takes into consideration about single parents and poorish families, i was just in there getting cleaned and he had a older lady with no ins have 2 root canals done and extracted another looking close to 4 hrs and charged her the cost of materials plus a extra 100.00 so in total a whopping 350.00 I believe so there is def some honest and loyal ppl left out there.

[gussser]

Of course Michaels Moore's exaggerates -- what movie form the US and most other places is not an exaggeration -- but he does it to make a point - that being the richest country in the world leaves out 40 million of it citizens from decent medical care -- and that is inexcusable for a developed country.

 

 

 

My 2 cents.

Out of the 40 mil he forgot to mention that 22 million are illegals, 9 million are youths whom opt out of the medical system because they want to save money, The remaining have many "covered " by state run programs as in Pennsylvania's CHIP for under 18 children. The "official" figure used of actual uninsured is appx. 3.8 million. Mike Moore "forgot "to give that figure because it would shoot down his whole fairy tale. This developed country needs no excuses as it leads the way in medical technogology, medicine development, and the furthering of freedom. The STATUE OF LIBERTY is in the US; not Russia, China or any other socialist leaning country. Still hoping to get that "free" fishing liscense due to taxation though.

[Canuck2fan]

Out of the 40 mil he forgot to mention that 22 million are illegals, 9 million are youths whom opt out of the medical system because they want to save money, The remaining have many "covered " by state run programs as in Pennsylvania's CHIP for under 18 children. The "official" figure used of actual uninsured is appx. 3.8 million. Mike Moore "forgot "to give that figure because it would shoot down his whole fairy tale. This developed country needs no excuses as it leads the way in medical technogology, medicine development, and the furthering of freedom. The STATUE OF LIBERTY is in the US; not Russia, China or any other socialist leaning country. Still hoping to get that "free" fishing liscense due to taxation though.

 

 

Not trying to start a war here but the facts are changing with regards to the U.S. leading the world in medical technology.... India will be smoking you all counts within a couple of years. Why you ask because the drug dealers aaaahhh I mean drug companies can make their drugs cheaper, do medical trials of all sorts in half the time with a larger population base minus the interference of the FDA and lastly do it all subsidized by the U.S. having the highest prescription drug prices in the developed world. Your politicians agreed to have you pay the higher prices so that you could be the center of research... and you are losing that benefit and getting hosed by the higher prices, but that's capitalism.... You might want to research some facts about what is really happening and how fast you are losing ground in the medical sector.

 

Another reason that both India and China will eventually lead the world in medical technology is because they are not going to be held back when it comes to genetic testing or stem cell research by the moral or ethical dilemmas other nations are. No religious right to stop it in those two countries.

 

On the other hand you do really have the Statue of Liberty

Edited July 9, 2007 by Canuck2fan

[Garyv]

Whether I agree or not with Moore ( and on some things I do agree ) my statement below is what I always feel after watching his movies.

 

Moore's documentaries/dramas/comedies do make some good points, but he never points out anything good about the USA...which is one of the few countries he enjoys the freedom to produce his form of entertainment. Heck, I wounder if he ever turns over any the the millions he makes to these causes of his, or does he eat all the profits! If he is so concerned about all his causes he would be better off sticking to one ( like Al Gore ) oh but wait by the 2nd and 3rd movie on say GM, no one would go anymore and he wouldn't make money.....get it yet, his motivation is money orientated, and with so many things going wrong he has unlimited subjects and unlimited profits.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

As any South of the border to US can tell you, Go to the emergency room of ANY hospital & they can NOT refuse you FREE treatment. The cost is passed on to those whom do carry insurance.

 

I was going to stay out of this because I know debating this issue is a lost cause, though I will say this. That is Bull.

 

Also, the US system is better if you can afford it! Even with work coverage it doesn't cover alot of health care. And the number one reason for personal bankrupcies is medical expenses.

 

There is no comparison. The Canadian health care is way better hands down,but if you pay attention closely, they are trying to slowly priivatize our health care also.....

[gussser]

Not trying to start a war here but the facts are changing with regards to the U.S. leading the world in medical technology.... India will be smoking you all counts within a couple of years. Why you ask because the drug dealers aaaahhh I mean drug companies can make their drugs cheaper, do medical trials of all sorts in half the time with a larger population base minus the interference of the FDA and lastly do it all subsidized by the U.S. having the highest prescription drug prices in the developed world. Your politicians agreed to have you pay the higher prices so that you could be the center of research... and you are losing that benefit and getting hosed by the higher prices, but that's capitalism.... You might want to research some facts about what is really happening and how fast you are losing ground in the medical sector.

 

Another reason that both India and China will eventually lead the world in medical technology is because they are not going to be held back when it comes to genetic testing or stem cell research by the moral or ethical dilemmas other nations are. No religious right to stop it in those two countries.

 

On the other hand you do really have the Statue of Liberty

Gonna lead someday, in a couple of years, WE LEAD NOW AS STATED, coulda , shoulda, woulda, ain't cuttin it. There will always be wannabe's

[gussser]

I was going to stay out of this because I know debating this issue is a lost cause, though I will say this. That is Bull.

 

Also, the US system is better if you can afford it! Even with work coverage it doesn't cover alot of health care. And the number one reason for personal bankrupcies is medical expenses.

 

There is no comparison. The Canadian health care is way better hands down,but if you pay attention closely, they are trying to slowly priivatize our health care also.....

I've spent 17 years in Arizona & the fact is that illegals GET FREE MEDICAL TREATMENT by going to the Emg Rooms. Thats the way it is. In Toronto , I doubt they know much about medical laws in the states except what Moore tells them. I live here , I have worked in the medical field, I have worked in hospitals, I have seen it with my eyes not Moores films of Bull