Protected waters in Canada

[singingdog]

 

 

The silliest thing is that many rivers and lakes are inter-provincial waterways which means the provinces, all with different environmental legislations, are stuck arguing between themselves with no overseeing powers. Who owns the Ottawa River? How the hell do you regulate that properly when Quebec and Ontario may have their own ideas of what is right. When they get into a big fight about this or that, who is gonna step in now?

As far as municipalities, they typically don't get into environmental issues because of the fear of crossing into Provincial or Federal legislation and getting into lawsuits. Hopefully, from these changes, if anything, municipalities will pick up some of the slack.... but I doubt the Feds intend to contribute funds for this.

 

Things that are beyond provincial borders should be regulated by the Federal government.....duh

 

 

 

I agree. I wasn't defending the recent change, just trying to clarify it.

 

I brought this issue up on OFC almost 2 years ago, and it didn't raise a peep. Go figure.

[Rod Caster]

I was in rant mode haha. I thought you had explained it well.

 

Its funny how people are reactive and not proactive against these things, including myself.

[jedimaster]

Personally I don't think the fed should have much to do with certain bodies of water. Some that go between provinces, or countries yes, but ones that are contained within a province should be regulated at the provincial and municipal level. No different than land, roads sewage systems, water treatment, electricity etc... if you have ever had to deal with water development the same things you need to do provincially uou have to de federally and in many cases also on the municipal. So to say that the waters are now unprotected is outright false and blatantly liberal propaganda. Now one could argue some things should be in the hands of feds versus provinces of course but why in both? It"s jist extra fat imo.

[Rod Caster]

Even inland and provincially bound lakes are part of larger watersheds. If the feds don't have a say in overall water development then we have a fractured system. The ontario MOE and the federal Environment Canada operate completely differently. Its not necessarily liberal propoganda becasue we don't know how these changes will affect water protection. Do you think the provinces has completely filled in the gap, so quickly? Its more than just a shift in control, its a chance to remove science and research from the process. The feds do not like environmental science if you haven't noticed yet.

 

By the way, not all environmental proponents are liberal, shake your head for trying label and divide people.

[jedimaster]

I am not trying to divide anyone but to say that the waterways are now unprotected is false. The provinces already regulate the waterways that the feds were also regulating. The overlap in paperwork, bureaucracy and waste is amazing. Not all lakes and rivers travel between provinces or countries. If you notice I did say that those that do should be regulated federally. In fact there are still lakes and rivers that are regulated federally. Did you know that there was consultation with the provinces to what lakes and rivers were kept in federal hands? Also nova scotia did make any requests to keep there lakes and rivers under the arms of the feds. In fact all of the provinces were consulted with and not one asked for any additions to the list.thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/224737-ottawa-to-ns-cry-me-a-river

 

Once I find the actual list if there are some lake that I think should be federally protected that aren't I'll be contacting the provincial govt to ask questions. This is truly something that I think falls in the lap of the provinces. Nt for everything but for many of them yes.

[bushart]

As Megan Leslie stated in that link I posted

 

This is all about more removal of waterway protection making Northern Gateway easier to pass

 

1st omnibus budget---lets change the fisheries act

 

2nd---lets change nav water act

 

"and By the way, not all environmental proponents are liberal, shake your head for trying label and divide people."

 

This is true---but being this is a non-political thread---we can only think it---cause pretty sure the Right is not inviting too close of scrutiny about now

 

 

 

"

[jedimaster]

Who do you think would have a better grasp on what would affect a particular lake or watershed? A provincial govt that is accountable to those in the immediate vicinity of that watershed or those that are creating blanket regulations across an entire country. What works for BC won't necessarily work for Ont or NS. There is now removal of science or environmental from the process. All of that still remains as it always has with the provinces and municipalities. If you have ever dealt with any water project the most strict constraints are within the municipal level. The federal paperwork is just a rubber stamp. The regulations were loose and for the most part irrelevant and almost always overlap.

Another thing to consider is who is more reachable and accountable to you as a fisherman? The feds, provinces or muni's? I have always had betted luck getting results and response from smaller govts.

[woodenboater]

and one wonders if closing the ELA was part of this plan all along...

[bushart]

and one wonders if closing the ELA was part of this plan all along...

 

 

Yup

 

Keep the masses ignorant of facts---and call it cost saving measures

[Rod Caster]

...to say that the waterways are now unprotected is false.

 

That is correct as a whole, but the MOE/MNR has a different role than the DFO or Env. Can. Different agencies with different mandates. There isn't much in the provincial legislations relating to public water access or shoreline protection/development. Ontario regs have more to do with water quality standards.

 

Who do you think would have a better grasp on what would affect a particular lake or watershed?

 

That depends on what question you are asking. Again, some protective measures have been removed.

 

 

What works for BC won't necessarily work for Ont or NS.

 

That's exactly why problems will occur with inter-provincial waterways. We can't just separate the inland waterways from inter-provincial. That is a very simple way of viewing things and watersheds are not simple to manage...that's one of the reasons why the federal regulations were important..

 

 

The federal paperwork is just a rubber stamp. The regulations were loose and for the most part irrelevant and almost always overlap.

 

 

Trust me, the DFO has (had) teeth. I've had to deal with them before with work. The overlap is actually good for protection because the Municipal and/or provincial regulators are sometimes left in situations that are beyond their jurisdication (or the problem is unprecedented), at which point the feds would step.

There is definitely a reduction in protection here, it's not total, but there's less than there was. It's a matter of time before a case emerges where the gap is truly visible.