solopaddler Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 So anyway as soon as frost season is over I'm going to lay a bunch of porcelain tile made to look like slate outside. I'm a rank amateur when it comes to this and have been offered a lot of different opinions. The options for grout are obvious: sanded, unsanded or epoxy. I initially thought epoxy grout as it's supposedly impervious to the elements but had a few people steer me away from it as it's difficult to work with. I guess most people use a standard sanded grout outdoors, but obviously it's not a perfect solution for outside work. Someone recently told me for outdoor work he uses the same mortar used to lay the tiles (with keralastic additive) as grout. He mixes colorant into the mortar to get the color he wants. Says it's 1000X more durable than sanded grout for outdoor use. Can anyone out there confirm what he's saying? Not much info on the net if you google this. Thanks guys. Don't want to make a costly mistake here.
mercman Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 Sounds to me you are going to be busy this summer, what with cedars and tiling. Splashhopper is the grout guy you need.I'm sure he will chime in here sooner or later. Good luck on the reno's Paul
misfish Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 Splashhopper is the grout guy you need Was going to say the same thing.
workwear Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 who ever told ya epoxy is a pita is right.....i would lay the tiles very tight to each other.....using the actual mortar is a good thing...but i would go a step further and seal it!!...this wont garuntee it wont lift since frost is a nasty thing to have to deal with....but it will give ya a fighting chance......good luck
misfish Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 i would lay the tiles very tight to each other You need expantion , no matter inside/outside.If he gets frost lift like you say,it will bust the tiles,then hes stuck with trying to refit.Thats not fun.
workwear Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 You need expantion , no matter inside/outside.If he gets frost lift like you say,it will bust the tiles,then hes stuck with trying to refit.Thats not fun. true enough .....but i would'nt leave no more than a 16th of an in gap....im wondering if polymeric sand might work.....
ADB Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) Hey Mike, I talked to my dad who does kitchens by trade, but is an all-around handyman. I simply asked him what he would use for grout on outdoor tiles. "Cement, with an additive," he said. He said he wouldn't use grout. Sounds like the advice you got on the mortar plus keralastic is sound. Edited May 4, 2011 by ADB
splashhopper Posted May 4, 2011 Report Posted May 4, 2011 Epoxy grout. 3 extra helpers. Half batch at a time in outdoor situations. Don't work in the heat. (Certified latapoxy installer and field test contractor for Laticrete International). Pm me for any further questions.
solopaddler Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Posted May 4, 2011 who ever told ya epoxy is a pita is right.....i would lay the tiles very tight to each other.....using the actual mortar is a good thing...but i would go a step further and seal it!!...this wont garuntee it wont lift since frost is a nasty thing to have to deal with....but it will give ya a fighting chance......good luck Hey Mike, I talked to my dad who does kitchens by trade, but is an all-around handyman. I simply asked him what he would use for grout on outdoor tiles. "Cement, with an additive," he said. He said he wouldn't use grout. Sounds like the advice you got on the mortar plus keralastic is sound. Thanks a bunch guys! I'll go with coloured mortar for sure.
splashhopper Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 sorry for the short response earlier... I was out and about.. Here are a couple of things to consider when doing a project like this: 1) Freeze and thaw can be a serious issue with tiles on poured concrete slabs. Is this slab on the ground or raised? 2) The proper type of thinset used is extremely important in outdoor installs. 3) Cement grouts (fortified)can accept moisture up to 21%. This means there is the distict possibility of freeze thaw failures. As someone mentioned earlier, a PENETRATING sealer ( SOLVENT BASED ONLY) is a fairly good addition to this procedure and will usually cut the moisture absorption rates in half. The ability to absorb moisture also means stains. Not a big issue if a dark grout is used, but is a serious pain in the with light grout colours ( whether cement or grout is used). Just take a look at all the light grout in kitchens and hall ways that have been installed the last 10 years... 4) Epoxy grout is not mixed with cement and water. Depending on the brand, there may be sand or there may be silica sand and two part epoxy liquids. *( silica sand is preferrable as it is pure colour) The MOISTURE ABSORPTION RATE of Epoxy grout is less than one half of one percent ! This is why it is the preferred grout used in water situations ( indoors or out) Handymen and the average tiler do not like to use epoxy grouts because they "think" it is tougher to use and they assume that it will be more costly to use. If the job fails, how much does that cost? Does the client want consistent colour with less moisture absorption?( see stains and mold and or algae`) The new generation epoxy grouts ( in the past 5 years) are easy to work with if you can follow directions and don't work in too large of an area when u are just starting out. ( mix half batches until you get the hang of it.) 5) When I work outdoors, Pools and decks, I only grout in the morning and preferably in the shade if at all possible. 6) A common mistake of DIY installs is not sealing up the perimeters so that moisture can't penetrate the thinset there. 7) Do NOT install the tiles tight to the house or any other immovable wall. You want at least a 1/8th inch gap to allow for expansion and contraction so that you don't come home one day and find cracked tiles or tiles popped right out and laying on the grass. Overall, don;t be afraid to try this Solopaddler. Just work in small batches untill u get the hang of it. Your focus and talent with your fishing skills are transferrable and you will enjoy your new patio for years to come. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me.
mercman Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Now thats precise, expert info Ron . I knew you could give Mike some advice.Always best to hear it from a Pro.
splashhopper Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Now thats precise, expert info Ron . I knew you could give Mike some advice.Always best to hear it from a Pro. "principles before personalities" comes to mind and when any OFC'er asks for some help, we all do our part to help where we can.
Sherriff Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 Be careful where you buy the sand that is in the grout, it may have sand lice and/or ticks... Sherriff
aniceguy Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) buy lots of beer a few good feeds on the Q and let me know a few weeks in advance I ll bring me and one of my tiling guys over Exterior epoxy!!!! no questions asked Mike Edited May 5, 2011 by aniceguy
splashhopper Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 buy lots of beer a few good feeds on the Q and let me know a few weeks in advance I ll bring me and one of my tiling guys over Exterior epoxy!!!! no questions asked Mike
aniceguy Posted May 5, 2011 Report Posted May 5, 2011 spalshhopper you in too for a day. I figure 3 guys a wet saw and some grinders and we can do the two square in a day
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