Why the Leafs suck.

[Lunatic]

Coaches request a bench staff GM's assign a bench staff.How do you think woody has lasted as long as he has in Toronto.

 

Dont get me wrong I am no fan of wilsons but when you have all hammers and no screwdeivers then its tough to get the job done.

most coaches get to pick who works with them andits up to the gm to see that it works out that way.and the reason acton is hanging around for so long is he lucked out when wilson came,because they are buddies.

 

also a good mechanic never blames his tools.

[Jigger]

As it stands now Richards has flat out said that said that he will not sign with the leafs. I doubt whether Crosby would want to play for Toronto as well. While most teams need to make the playoffs consistently in order to make money, the leafs are not in that situation. I think that sheep comment was a bit too close to home for you. The fact is that the maple leafs as an organization have less incentive to win because they can count on leaf nation turning out in droves to support the team win, lose or draw. If you want to blame anyone for the mismanagement of the leafs it is the fans.

Having said that the leafs finally look like they are on the rebound. It's just a shame that it took so long.

 

As it stands now, Richards may be a good centre. But for an guy that has only ever broken the 90pt barrier twice to be called "elite" is laughable, and it would be hard to swallow the kind of contract he's going to demand. IMO Richards can say what he wants, I'd rather Burke not even go close to him with an offer sheet.

[Chance]

My point exactly.Richards has said no to the Leafs so a boycott will make him change his mind,I think not?

It is really business 101, you are claiming the Leafs organization cares about absolutely nothing but making money yet then claim they pass up on the biggest money maker available,the playoffs.This myth has been around for years and its just that a myth.

Exactly what points to a lack of interest in making the playoffs?Does the brass come into the room when they are in ninth place and say"hey boys time to toss up a dog we are not interested in making the playoffs"? "if one of you buggers scores the winning goal that puts us in those playoffs yor gone the next day! "If there is no incentive to win and as you say fans come in droves why not ice a bunch of ECHL players and sit 20 million below the cap every year?Nope the Leafs currently are approxiomately 5 million below cap.They sign a goalie for 6+Mil a year instead of "buddy whatshisname" form the ECHL for 10 G's and a case of beer. Why sign Brian Burke stay with ferguson,he's cheaper,heck you could probably sign a GM from junior for 50k a year.

Try living the life of a pro.Breathe eat sleep hockey and all that it encompasses since you were a kid.Think of nothing but scoring the winning goal in the stanley cup final.Then once your in reach of your goal just magically change your whole outlook on life and stop competing.

Poor coachiong,lack of talent,poor scouting sure I buy into it all,but no incentive to win,not a chance.Blaming the Leafs or any teams lack of success on attendance is to say the least humourous.

 

 

As it stands now Richards has flat out said that said that he will not sign with the leafs. I doubt whether Crosby would want to play for Toronto as well. While most teams need to make the playoffs consistently in order to make money, the leafs are not in that situation. I think that sheep comment was a bit too close to home for you. The fact is that the maple leafs as an organization have less incentive to win because they can count on leaf nation turning out in droves to support the team win, lose or draw. If you want to blame anyone for the mismanagement of the leafs it is the fans.

Having said that the leafs finally look like they are on the rebound. It's just a shame that it took so long.

[craigdritchie]

It is really business 101, you are claiming the Leafs organization cares about absolutely nothing but making money yet then claim they pass up on the biggest money maker available,the playoffs.This myth has been around for years and its just that a myth.

Yes, playoff games would earn the team a lot of money, and yes, a Stanley Cup win would represent enormous business in merchandise alone. No one argues that.

 

But one thing you learn in Business 101 is that there are two sides to any profit opportunity. Investing to develop a winning team also represents a certain level of risk, and one that the owners do not appear to be willing to take. It isn't just the cost of signing some marquis players and maybe paying a salary cap penalty. You're looking at the cost of investing in the farm system, investing in better coaching at the minor league levels, investing in scouting, and building depth throughout the franchise over a span of five, six, maybe eight years. You're talking tens of millions of dollars with absolutely no guarantee that the team will go on to actually win anything.

 

It's a gamble, and investors don't like to gamble. They prefer to maximize the return on their investment while minimizing risk.

 

Leaf owners are already making very nice profits as it is. Their attitude is, why risk a fortune when you don't have to?

 

I agree with FishGreg - nothing will change as long as people continue to buy jerseys and hats and keep shoveling money into the organization, basically rewarding them for doing nothing.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Craig_Ritchie

[Chance]

Yes, playoff games would earn the team a lot of money, and yes, a Stanley Cup win would represent enormous business in merchandise alone. No one argues that.

 

But one thing you learn in Business 101 is that there are two sides to any profit opportunity. Investing to develop a winning team also represents a certain level of risk, and one that the owners do not appear to be willing to take. It isn't just the cost of signing some marquis players and maybe paying a salary cap penalty. You're looking at the cost of investing in the farm system, investing in better coaching at the minor league levels, investing in scouting, and building depth throughout the franchise over a span of five, six, maybe eight years. You're talking tens of millions of dollars with absolutely no guarantee that the team will go on to actually win anything.

 

It's a gamble, and investors don't like to gamble. They prefer to maximize the return on their investment while minimizing risk.

 

Leaf owners are already making very nice profits as it is. Their attitude is, why risk a fortune when you don't have to?

 

I agree with FishGreg - nothing will change as long as people continue to buy jerseys and hats and keep shoveling money into the organization, basically rewarding them for doing nothing.

 

what you speak of is a disfunctonal infrastructure which I will agree with.Pre cap days the leafs did not worry about scouting,developement or anything less.They purchased other teams top players as they had the money to do such.Now with the cap in place these things are important and you cannot buy anything without penalties in place.The machine is broken ,no doubt about it but not for lack of interest in making money.

I think you might be stretching the "tens of millions" risk factor.They sit fifth in AHL payroll,not last,not first but not last.Check on the salaries of eakins and their scouts.They do invest money but once again lack of talent comes into play.

Disfunctional yes but not willing to take a financial risk in the minor leagues...well lets just say i would love to see those numbers.

 

Which represents are greater financial risk.Spending building a solid foundation in the minors or throwing millions at the final product in hopes it works??

Edited April 11, 2011 by Chance

[craigdritchie]

Chance - I would like to see the actual numbers too, but obviously that isn't going to happen for either of us. Sadly, I don't sense that the owners are interested in either investing in building the farm system, or throwing significantly more money at the pro-level club. They seem perfectly happy with maintaining the present situation, and that's what I find most frustrating.

[moose]

Isn't this all Brian Burke said when he came to Toronto

This is the hardest place in NHL to play because of media and bandwagon fans that put soccer in their handle in forums hahahah

He still might be thinking of a field where it is too big

When a guy gets touched and you think he was ru over by a freight train

And looking for yellow and green cards

Make feild shorter and put contact in

As for hockey this a great game your team is not always going to win

So if you don't enjoy it you can watch soccer or paint dry

[Chance]

Chance - I would like to see the actual numbers too, but obviously that isn't going to happen for either of us. Sadly, I don't sense that the owners are interested in either investing in building the farm system, or throwing significantly more money at the pro-level club. They seem perfectly happy with maintaining the present situation, and that's what I find most frustrating.

 

 

I think,more so hope this is changing.This team "seems" to be heading in the right direction.It is alot younger than in years past and does have some good prospects on the way up.Hopefully they can pull it together and at least be competitive next year.If the last part of the season was an indicator they should be okay if they make a few changes.

[Oggie]

Somebody in the second period Hot Stove roundtable discussion basically said What you're saying Craig. The Teacher's Pension Fund is not interested in spending as long as they are making profit.

 

One of the inside guys said that actually the TPF are excellent owners. They stay out of managements way and they don't question the spending. They're alot better than many other owners in other franchises he said.

 

I think there has been a long tradition of poor managment right back to the Ballard years. Rookie GM's (Ferguson, Stellick, etc.) that didn't know what they were doing. Old coaches (Quinn) that didn't see the changes in the NHL coming and failed to retool there teams. Yes a general lack of spending on scouting and minor league system. All this has made for the Perfect Storm and the Leafs are just now starting to show signs of recovery.

 

Marquis players like to play for winning teams so no way Richards is coming here. GM's like to work in winning franchises so no way Scotty Bowman would ever have come here. Winning begets winning and VS VS. It takes time to turn this thing around.

Dan O.

[Jigger]

Just forlaughs, I'd just like to point out that the Presidents trophy was awarded this year to a team that Burke and Nonis built.

[Gregoire]

My point exactly.Richards has said no to the Leafs so a boycott will make him change his mind,I think not?

It is really business 101, you are claiming the Leafs organization cares about absolutely nothing but making money yet then claim they pass up on the biggest money maker available,the playoffs.This myth has been around for years and its just that a myth.

Exactly what points to a lack of interest in making the playoffs?Does the brass come into the room when they are in ninth place and say"hey boys time to toss up a dog we are not interested in making the playoffs"? "if one of you buggers scores the winning goal that puts us in those playoffs yor gone the next day! "If there is no incentive to win and as you say fans come in droves why not ice a bunch of ECHL players and sit 20 million below the cap every year?Nope the Leafs currently are approxiomately 5 million below cap.They sign a goalie for 6+Mil a year instead of "buddy whatshisname" form the ECHL for 10 G's and a case of beer. Why sign Brian Burke stay with ferguson,he's cheaper,heck you could probably sign a GM from junior for 50k a year.

Try living the life of a pro.Breathe eat sleep hockey and all that it encompasses since you were a kid.Think of nothing but scoring the winning goal in the stanley cup final.Then once your in reach of your goal just magically change your whole outlook on life and stop competing.

Poor coachiong,lack of talent,poor scouting sure I buy into it all,but no incentive to win,not a chance.Blaming the Leafs or any teams lack of success on attendance is to say the least humourous.

 

 

You are totally missing my point, but that is not shocking. My point has been made and reinforced. We have a difference of opinion. I would just like you to think about how the owners of the leafs would react if the ACC did not sell out every day, or if merchandise sales fell off. I'd be willing to wager that they might change their direction.

I also must say that I am highly suspicious of people who are blindly devoted to a cause. I find that their judgement becomes suspect. Chance, I think you may be experiencing this.

[Chance]

Yes you have stated your point of view but proven it to be accurate or reinforced it with facts....no.

Your point as I see it is they are happy raking in the dough they are at this point and absolutely no incentive to improve and possibly enter the playoffs.My point is this is not so and they are trying to improve,dysfunctionaly so as they do not have alot of talent in the ranks but an attempt non the less.Brian Burke has more control than any GM in the past and this was one of his stipulations before he signed.He immediately went after one of the top scorers in the league (lets not get into the kessel sucks discussion ,whether you like it or not he is near the top when it comes to putting the puck in the net).He attempted to move up in the draft and now has one of the youngest teams in the league.He is trying to attract big name players who do not want to come for many reasons,wilson the media etc etc etc.

What exactly would they do differently if fans stopped showing up??Learn how to build a team from the ground up?Sign a big first line center,sign two players who can actually kill penalties,sign a decent PP point man,hire a dynamic coach who can adjust on the fly?Or possibly throw huge amounts of money at marquis players who would attract fans but not win you a cup, or in other words what they have been doing for years.You can stop petting your old dog but this doesn't mean he is going to learn any new tricks to get your attention back.

I believe they are heading in the right direction.It will take time and they are still making mistakes.

As far as blind devotion is concerned,which one of my previous quotes leads to that belief?

""Poor coaching,lack of talent,poor scouting sure I buy into it all" or was it "the machine is broken" or possibly when I said they had a "dysfunctional infrastructure"?

 

 

 

 

 

You are totally missing my point, but that is not shocking. My point has been made and reinforced. We have a difference of opinion. I would just like you to think about how the owners of the leafs would react if the ACC did not sell out every day, or if merchandise sales fell off. I'd be willing to wager that they might change their direction.

I also must say that I am highly suspicious of people who are blindly devoted to a cause. I find that their judgement becomes suspect. Chance, I think you may be experiencing this.