Billy Bob Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 It's kinda funny that the Natives are the only ones putting up $$$$$$$ to study the populations,set Quotas and higher fishery biologists to manage the fishery.In fact the natives seem to be the only ones who are actually doing anything for the fishery and not sitting on there bums playing a blame game.The tourist operators have rapped the lake for 50+ yrs with out putting anything back accept alot of tears and name calling,if there so concerned for the fishery perhaps instead of crying it's time they step up. If what you say is true, where is the all Outdoor Card and Fishing License monies going ? ? ? ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) But you and I have nothing to show for a family dinner at the end of the weekend unless on the way home we purchase some from the natives which may be the very fish we let go....It the train of thought by the powers to be (Ontario Fisheries) is that a lot limit is a MUST to maintain or improve fishing on the Big Nip by sportsmen who are very limited to fishing with one rod/reel, then how can the same powers to be allow every walleye to be netted for a profit... What are you suggesting? Ignoring fishing regulations? Overthrowing the government? You could be an American Tea Party agitator who could start the revolution very much like Che did!! Edited October 17, 2010 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) What are you suggesting? Ignoring fishing regulations? Overthrowing the government? You could be an American Tea Party agitator who could start the revolution very much like Che did!! You're right of course, everyone who wants some common sense involved in our governance, such as maybe not applying centuries old treaties to today's vastly different conditions, is a right wing extremist. How reasonable of you. Edited October 17, 2010 by blarg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) You're right of course, everyone who wants some common sense involved in our governance, such as maybe not applying centuries old treaties to today's vastly different conditions, is a right wing extremist. How reasonable of you. The rhetoric was getting a bit frothy and needed a bit of deflating. I am all ears, how about some solutions instead of bashing? Or does "common sense" not do solutions? Edited October 17, 2010 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 It's kinda funny that the Natives are the only ones putting up $$$$$$$ to study the populations,set Quotas and higher fishery biologists to manage the fishery.In fact the natives seem to be the only ones who are actually doing anything for the fishery and not sitting on there bums playing a blame game.The tourist operators have rapped the lake for 50+ yrs with out putting anything back accept alot of tears and name calling,if there so concerned for the fishery perhaps instead of crying it's time they step up. Surely using gill nets on the lake is an appropriate management scheme and the hired biologist has no conflict of interest what so ever... Yes, we all could do better, but gill netting the lake will never be a good idea, never, what is it that people don't understand about that. You really believe the natives on the lake care more about the fish and less about the money than you or I would? How foolish of you, that very idea is paternalistic romantic garbage, it is an insult to them. They are no better or worse than us and it isn't about us making up for the wrongs our ancestors committed, this is about sensible management of the fishery and gill netting a lake is never a good thing. You could argue that catch limits need to be reduced, the number of ice fishing huts need to be reduced, etc etc etc, i would agree, but how many others would when gill nets are catching anything and everything that swims? Where is the incentive for anyone to reduce their catch under those circumstances? I know for a fact that more people are keeping more fish as a direct result of the increased netting on the lake, the prevailing attitude is if they don't have a slot size why should I, it is an honest and reasonable question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 The rhetoric was getting a bit frothy and needed a bit of deflating. I am all ears, how about some solutions instead of bashing? Or does "common sense" not do solutions? The most obvious and easiest of solutions was not to voluntarily allow the sale of the fish when a food fishery was already in place, clearly selling the fish (legally, it was already being done to a lesser extent illegally) was going to increase the netting and the pressure on the fish. Perhaps they would have won that right in court, I don't know, but the current government didn't have to give it away. Aside from that there are many things that could be done on our side, reduced limits, higher license fees and better enforcement come to mind. Those are more global than local issues though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 What are you suggesting? Ignoring fishing regulations? Overthrowing the government? You could be an American Tea Party agitator who could start the revolution very much like Che did!! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) Surely using gill nets on the lake is an appropriate management scheme and the hired biologist has no conflict of interest what so ever... Yes, we all could do better, but gill netting the lake will never be a good idea, never, what is it that people don't understand about that. You really believe the natives on the lake care more about the fish and less about the money than you or I would? How foolish of you, that very idea is paternalistic romantic garbage, it is an insult to them. They are no better or worse than us and it isn't about us making up for the wrongs our ancestors committed, this is about sensible management of the fishery and gill netting a lake is never a good thing. You could argue that catch limits need to be reduced, the number of ice fishing huts need to be reduced, etc etc etc, i would agree, but how many others would when gill nets are catching anything and everything that swims? Where is the incentive for anyone to reduce their catch under those circumstances? I know for a fact that more people are keeping more fish as a direct result of the increased netting on the lake, the prevailing attitude is if they don't have a slot size why should I, it is an honest and reasonable question. If you are a capitalist and believe in the free market then you have to believe in property rights and any other personal rights enshrined in our constitution. If you can have your rights stripped from you or your property stripped from you then you have communism. Are you suggesting a sort of communism only for the natives where we take away the rights that they bargained for in good faith, not even fully understanding what they were bargaining for? If the natives are doing studies then they may very well be looking to see what is sustainable. Instead of being "rebels" I'd suggest working with the all the people who have rights on the lake for a common solution. That might take some work. Edited October 17, 2010 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 If you are a capitalist and believe in the free market then you have to believe in property rights and any other personal rights enshrined in our constitution. If you can have your rights stripped from you or your property stripped from you then you have communism. Are you suggesting a sort of communism only for the natives where we take away the rights that they bargained for in good faith, not even fully understanding what they were bargaining for? If the natives are doing studies then they may very well be looking to see what is sustainable. Instead of being "rebels" I'd suggest working with the all the people who have rights on the lake for a common solution. That might take some work. We well NEVER come together as people until we ALL live under the same rules without discrimination to any group and that includes those of us who were born in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) We well NEVER come together as people until we ALL live under the same rules without discrimination to any group and that includes those of us who were born in Canada. Are you suggesting eliminating property rights and other rights to make us ALL equal? Gee that sounds a lot like communism. Edited October 17, 2010 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 i'm not a fan of netting inland lakes but as long as people are placing sole blame on indigenous groups for the destructions of fisheries like this, our own destructive mentalities won't change and neither will our fisheries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro2 Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) i'm not a fan of netting inland lakes but as long as people are placing sole blame on indigenous groups for the destructions of fisheries like this, our own destructive mentalities won't change and neither will our fisheries. The funny thing is that there are natives posting on this board and many more of us have native relatives as I do. You folks are making this out to be a them/ us situation. It's not, they are as Canadian as we are. You can scapegoat them but that only creates bad blood. Natives could very well be a big part of the decline of this fishery but they are not the beginning and end of this problem. They have rights here and unless you're advocating a targeted communistic reclaiming of their rights then they obviously need to be part of the solution. Sports fishing is a lucrative business and I assume they make little off of that fishery. They may well be realizing that the fishery is not an unlimited resource and this is why they are doing studies. Perhaps there is a better way to net productively and restore the health of the fishery. We can be part of that solution. We had a thread on this exact same topic before and it seems like every several months there is a thread on natives. This endless rehashing of grudges..what does it do? I'd like to hear the native position. I'd like to hear communication towards a solution. Edited October 17, 2010 by scuro2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcreekdad Posted October 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Gee.....I was just wondering if anyone else had a bad stretch on the French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 United, we stand a chance of renewing the fishery. Divided, the fishery falls....nuff said..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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