Tiller rigs

[modny]

Looking more at the alumas and I notice the driver's chair is very close to the middle.. Is the tiller handle adjustable at all on the new motors?

 

 

i like the transom style on this boat, it stays nice and high. i'd throw some wave wackers on there and you'd be golden.

 

also, its not a big deal, but i like how the gas tank filler is at the back outta the way, some boats place it in the most ridiculous place, like on the bow casting platform and it totally acts as a tripping hazard.

[Twocoda]

I used to have a 15 foot legend tiller ...served me great ...even out on the great lakes...but my trips were limited due to wave hieghts...so i went up to a deep v fiberglass ...As far as aluminium boats go ...i dont think there is a better boat then then princecraft....( just my opinion ) ....but for comfort ...fiberglass all the way...its alot better if you can plow through a wave as opposed to riding up and over it .....regarless of your final decision...im sure your gonna love it .....make sure to compare hull thicknesses and rivets/welds

[Bernie]

An SSV-16 with a 40HP motor and one driver will do 50MPH+. Its all in the prop.....certain pitches will top you out at xMPH, doesn't matter what boat it is on.

An SSV-18 with 60 will do?

 

forrest

 

Hey wow Forrest. I gotta get you to prop my boat for me.

[Mike the Pike]

An SSV-16 with a 40HP motor and one driver will do 50MPH+. Its all in the prop.....certain pitches will top you out at xMPH, doesn't matter what boat it is on.

An SSV-18 with 60 will do?

 

forrest

 

Be careful Forrest I asked my dealer about a prop that would give me more top end .It can be done but with risk it can over rev the motor easily

and poof no more motor.My dealer told me that is the risk and he has seen it happen.

50mph from a 16 ft tinny with a 40 .I don't think thats possible unless Roy is driving

[cellwood]

Alum. Nav. 165. 75 E-tec. Best boat i've ever owned.

[forrest]

Be careful Forrest I asked my dealer about a prop that would give me more top end .It can be done but with risk it can over rev the motor easily

and poof no more motor.My dealer told me that is the risk and he has seen it happen.

50mph from a 16 ft tinny with a 40 .I don't think thats possible unless Roy is driving

 

The mercury service manual has several pages of specs that relate boat weight, prop size/pitch and motor size (worth the $90):

 

With over revving Its the other way around. An increased pitch puts a load on the engine, Too low a pitch (slower top end) and your enginre revs out:

 

Bicycle Analogy on flat land:

Put your bike in the hardest gear, you will get top speed and not rev out.

Put your bike in the easiest gear, you will top early and be reving your poor legs to an accident.

 

 

right now my boat is under propped. It will max out at ~34mph without being at full revs or throttle, I need more weight in the boat or a higher pitch prop for the ideal setup.

For that and other reasons I always take it easy at a reasonable 24mph.

 

BTW....its bad to over prop it too.

Its all about the proper weight/prop match.

 

forrest

Edited December 6, 2008 by forrest

[forrest]

Dug the merc manual out of the garage. From the Merc manual:

 

Prop: 10", 19 pitch, 3 blades

Boat: Gross weight up to 800lbs

 

Resulting speed range: 45-53mph.

 

My total boat weight bare bones: 810lbs

350lbs (hull)

220lbs (engine)

165lbs (me)

50lbs (battery)

25lbs (fuel)

 

Bare bones ssv-18 add 110lbs + 30lbs for 60HP = 950lbs

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The 30HP merc gives the same top speed at 600lbs so a total guess would be

SSV-18 up to 1200lbs with 60HP motor on it would do 53mph

 

that is until it flips over backwards

 

I think I may like hte 40hp in the future but this year 30 would have easily been enough.

I probably could have gotten away with a 30HP and been just as happy or happier for ever....I would have been 45lbs lighter on the transom and not have to be moving my batteries and add weight to the front.

 

forrest

[Bernie]

Its all about the proper weight/prop match.

forrest

Sorry Forrest it isn't "all about proper weight/Prop match". It is part of it. The faster you go the more friction is added multiplying the amount of torque/HP required. You cant put a 19" prop on a 5hp and get 50 MPH out of it. There is hull design, horse power, friction and torque in the equation.

If you put too large of a prop on a boat it may or will take the RPM's down below its powerband. It will or can make your boat slower. It can also be hard on your internal engine parts by creating more strain on bearing surfaces. Most manufacturers will give you an RPM range to work with a particular engine. Usually it will be within a 500 rpm range. This is where you want your engine to run when it is wide open with a normal load. A top quality stainless prop is the way to gain performance. Aluminum blades will flex a little at high rpm and you lose a little bit.

[forrest]

Sorry Forrest it isn't "all about proper weight/Prop match". It is part of it. The faster you go the more friction is added multiplying the amount of torque/HP required. You cant put a 19" prop on a 5hp and get 50 MPH out of it. There is hull design, horse power, friction and torque in the equation.

If you put too large of a prop on a boat it may or will take the RPM's down below its powerband. It will or can make your boat slower. It can also be hard on your internal engine parts by creating more strain on bearing surfaces. Most manufacturers will give you an RPM range to work with a particular engine. Usually it will be within a 500 rpm range. This is where you want your engine to run when it is wide open with a normal load. A top quality stainless prop is the way to gain performance. Aluminum blades will flex a little at high rpm and you lose a little bit.

 

Who really wants to do 50mph in a tiller?

 

Of course the hull has something to do with it but hydrodynamics and aero dynamics is a bit much for the conversation. Throw a top on the boat look out!

Higher weight....drop the pitch.

The lighter the boat the higher the pitch required to result in the same forces on the motor parts. I am not a mechanic but I did good in physics and read the mercury documentation.

.....being more correct by saying it is all about force/pitch/revs just sounds silly.

 

 

And an aluminum prop.....thats a choice but it puts extra force on the prop shaft if you hit something doesn't it? And they cost a fortune!

 

forrest

 

Where are the mechanics?

Edited December 6, 2008 by forrest

[Bernie]

Where are the mechanics?

 

 

I am

Family has been in boating since the 1920's. Rigged many a boat myself.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Bernie

[forrest]

I am

Family has been in boating since the 1920's. Rigged many a boat myself.

 

OK...so what is up with the merc manual giving an estimate of top speed of their engine on a 800lb boat being 45-53mph?

Are they completely fabricating the numbers?

 

forrest

[Bernie]

To be honest Forrest I don't know. What manual are you looking at? The owners manual? Perhaps it may be a little performance optimism from Mercury. I always have gone with experience of looking at the boat and motor taking a selection of props and putting on the correct one. Always seems to work out fine.

[rickster]

OK...so what is up with the merc manual giving an estimate of top speed of their engine on a 800lb boat being 45-53mph?

Are they completely fabricating the numbers?

 

forrest

 

 

yup

[forrest]

OK....so from my experience with the ssv-16, 40HP merc 4strk on GPS, with 1100lbs gross weight, 2 guys in the boat, I did 34mph and there was still room on the throttle for more (if I had a higher pitched prop.....hey I had to go fast at least once

 

So add 150lbs for the SSV-18 setup (with 4 stroke)....consider the HP on the motor is 150% of mine and guess what the speed with be.

 

 

50MPH stats:

From the SERVICE MANUAL, the ones a mechanic would use to tear the engine down, that mercury puts the specs in for my 40.....maybe they were testing on aluminum race boats, so see above for my real world no crap experience.

 

forrest

PS....I gotta ask again...who wants to do 50 in a tiller?

PS....and my bad for not emphatically stating that I have not done 50.

[Bernie]

I have to ask. How did you clock the speed?

And yes I have done more than 50 in a tiller but sooner have a wheel at that speed.

[PERCHER]

 

 

When I had my SSV 18 footer with a 50hp Honda I could go 33mph alone with 2 and fishing gear 31mph.

 

It may sound slow to you but its all I need and my Honda four stroke is really cheap on gas.

 

The same motor pushes my new Lund a 1660 classic.

 

In the new boat I can go 31mph alone add some gear and another fisherman and it goes 29mph.

 

All these speeds were from a GPS

[forrest]

I have to ask. How did you clock the speed?

And yes I have done more than 50 in a tiller but sooner have a wheel at that speed.

 

With a light crosswind on a Garmin etrex GPS....maybe Mike has large friends

I did not leave it there long....whats the point....I can enjoy my day without taxing the engine or comfort level.

 

I guess I will have to kidnap a couple of you guys and throw you in. I don't like cars, fast boats or other fast toys. I do not bull about speed.

 

forrest

Edited December 6, 2008 by forrest

[forrest]

Hey.....I wasted a lot of time. duh

 

This guy did a whole conversion on a IPS hulled SSV-18 and put a 60HP motor on it and tested the speed on the finished boat:

 

http://www.correllconcepts.com/boat_conversion.htm

 

forrest

[Mike the Pike]

Hey.....I wasted a lot of time. duh

 

This guy did a whole conversion on a IPS hulled SSV-18 and put a 60HP motor on it and tested the speed on the finished boat:

 

http://www.correllconcepts.com/boat_conversion.htm

 

forrest

\

 

MY SSV did not have the IPS hull and was 10hp from the maximum.All I know is for the amount of money this guy spent to trick out his SSV 18

I came out way ahead by purchasing a Lund 1660 Classic .More storage wider boat more floor space,platform for my bow mount electric motor,sport track system for rod holders and accessories much deeper hull,sheesh the guy still is without a livewell.

 

BTW Forrest you bought a good boat the SSV is built like a tank.Mine was in Mint condition when I traded it in.

 

Percher clocked me on the GPS from his boat with 2 people in my boat(SSV 18) plus fishing gear at 31mph thats it thats all.

[Guest lundboy]

BTW, I was told by a sales guy that the G3 & Lunds are one in the same. He said the G3 was just a rebadge Lund that only comes with a Yamaha motor. Don't know if it's true or not but they looked to be the same when I looked at them at the fishing show. With the Alumacraft you can get it with any brand motor that you want.

 

I don't know how one would "re-badge" a Lund into a G3 and remove the rivets and replace them all with welded joints. Next time at the boat show take a closer look at the fit and finish of the welds on a G3 and the odd bends and seams of the sheet metal.

 

Besides Lund is owned by Brunswick Corporation, G3 is owned by Yamaha Motor Company... A competitor to Brunswick.

Edited December 6, 2008 by lundboy

[forrest]

\

 

MY SSV did not have the IPS hull and was 10hp from the maximum.All I know is for the amount of money this guy spent to trick out his SSV 18

I came out way ahead by purchasing a Lund 1660 Classic .More storage wider boat more floor space,platform for my bow mount electric motor,sport track system for rod holders and accessories much deeper hull,sheesh the guy still is without a livewell.

 

BTW Forrest you bought a good boat the SSV is built like a tank.Mine was in Mint condition when I traded it in.

 

Percher clocked me on the GPS from his boat with 2 people in my boat(SSV 18) plus fishing gear at 31mph thats it thats all.

 

I completely agree and like your setup better than that one the guy converted. He did it for hobby purposes too and previously his webpage said he might not go through the same labour of love again.

 

Often I look at your posts and know I will eventually follow the same path that you did SSV first then a Classic type boat. I looked at the classic and thought it was the greatest thing.

 

My choice for a bare bones hull boiled down to money. The price of a roomier feature full boat is one thing but adding the tow vehicle I would have to buy ended up being too much. It is all about the fun though.

 

forrest

[modny]

Who really wants to do 50mph in a tiller?

 

 

i would no problem

[Walshskie]

To pick between a tiller and a counsel it all depends what kind of fishing you like to do I fish musky allot and in nasty weather so a full windshield and a rain top works great for me, but if you are into smaller lakes and trolling for walleyes then a tiller is the way to go. One thing with a tiller it tow like a rocket I wish some one would make a full windshield that could fold down when towing it like dragging a pareshoot

Edited December 6, 2008 by Walshskie

[modny]

dont they also offer the lund 20 foot alaskan with a 115 tiller?

 

if so, it would break 50mph wouldn't it

[Bernie]

dont they also offer the lund 20 foot alaskan with a 115 tiller?

 

if so, it would break 50mph wouldn't it

 

Don't think it would.