Lower Grand Walleyes

[jeff24]

Just looking for some opinions.

I am not very knowlegable with the migration of walleye, and I am curious if the walleye in the Lower Grand,(ie Dunnville to Lake Erie) are Grand River walleye or are Lake Erie walleye moving into the river for spawn and back out. Aside from the guide to eating Ontario sportfish, what other information could be offered as to consumption.

Thanks, Jeff

[fishing]

Quote from another board "May 22, 2008...... I believe that there were a lot of fish that were from the lake staged in the river to feed as they had a different color to them than the river walleye......"

Edited June 28, 2008 by fishing

[jwl]

there are some 'resident walleye" in the Grand, mainly it's a run from the lake that comes in there to spawn in the spring. I do volunteer work with the MNR in the spring. The MNR electroshocks the water and we follow behind in a catch boat netting up the walleye to be processed(jaw taggged,PIT tagged,measured,scale samples for DNA testing, sex determined if applicable, and collect brood stock for a local stocking program). The tagged fish are then relocated, brood stock collected goes to a local small walleye hatchery project. We then get the fry and raise them in a rearing pond where then after about 6-8 weeks the small fry get netted out of the pond and then get stocked into a different body of water. The reason for this is that these fish that migrate into the Grand River are best suited as brood stock for this project becasue they are genetically adapted to live in the shallower, muddy waters, and thus best suited genetically to live where we stock them.

 

If anyone from the board ever catches one of these fish with the jaw tag(put in place for easy anglercaught fish identification) they can call the numbers into the MNR and you will get the complete history on that fish for example, when it first tagged, sex ect.

[timmeh]

I believe there are several different populations of walleye that can be found in the Lower Grand. Some of them reside in the river permanently. However there are other populations that move into the river, and make it as far up as caledonia. I know there are several different genetic strains in the Lake and I believe the river fish are different as well.

 

As far as eating them, I don't know if you can tell just by looking at it whether the fish is from the river or been in the lake. I would follow the guildlines for the lower grand for any fish you catch in there.

[uglyfish]

the river walleye typically have a lighter, more pale color to them due to the water color. where as lake run 'eyes are usually darker, and the colors and patterns are more predominant and visible. and they're fine to eat.

[jwl]

I believe there are several different populations of walleye that can be found in the Lower Grand. Some of them reside in the river permanently. However there are other populations that move into the river, and make it as far up as caledonia. I know there are several different genetic strains in the Lake and I believe the river fish are different as well.

 

As far as eating them, I don't know if you can tell just by looking at it whether the fish is from the river or been in the lake. I would follow the guildlines for the lower grand for any fish you catch in there.

 

 

Alot of the fish that make it up to Caledonia are relocated, every spring the fish we catch and tag on the lower are relocated to the Upper Grand, we relocate about 1000 fish a spring. If you want to know the biodiversity of the walleye on the Grand I can find out no problem from one of the biologists that I work with on the project in the spring. I will email a couple of my contacts to try and find out. Alot of the fish are lake run but colour fades just from being in the brown stained water for so long as most species of fish due when the bodie of water is muddy. I will email the MNR biologist and keep you posted on the response

[jeff24]

Thanks for all the information. I'm going to try to head down Sunday and give it a try weather dependent. Anyone know roughly how far from the dam (around fishmasters) to the mouth of the lake?

[timmeh]

it's about 7km

[jwl]

here is the answer I got from an MNR Biologist contact that I have who is part of LEMU(Lake Erie Management Unit) in regards to this question brought up.

 

Funny enough in my Email he started that someone had just emailed him with the link to this forum and the question at hand....so for anyone who doubts that the angler's voice does not matter to the MNR...it most certainly does

 

 

Hi Jack,

 

 

 

Good questions.

 

 

 

Someone just emailed me the link to the OFC discussion group where I think you are discussing the GR walleye issue. I will try to answer briefly without babbling on too long.

 

 

 

You ask about the bio-diversity of the Grand River walleye.

 

 

 

Bio-diversity usually refers to diversity of different species within an area however it can also refer to the amount of genetic diversity within a group of the same species

 

There are two types of diversity that we might be interested in with regard to the walleye that use the Grand River:

 

1. One is the genetic diversity within a group of walleye that interbreed because their ranges overlap or they home to the same spawning area.

 

2. The other is the genetic distinctiveness of two groups of walleye where no (or little) interbreeding occurs even though they may occupy the same area at some point of the year (or life cycle).

 

 

 

#2 is important from a management point of view because it might affect how we manage the two separate groups (e.g. fishing regulations or quotas that treat group 1 differently than group 2)

 

#1 is important because, even if we determine that a separate group or stock exists (e.g. Grand River stock) we would still want to see lots of genetic diversity within this group. Low genetic diversity might indicate that there was some barrier to spawning where only a few individuals were contributing (e.g. if the hatchery was the only source of reproduction and only one male and female pair were used each year). This could lead to a group that didn’t have a lot of resilience to any curve-ball changes that its environment might throw at it.

 

 

 

No definitive genetic comparisons have been made between walleye that are found along the ENTIRE length of the river however from the work that has been done on fish downstream of Caledonia (i.e. below the first true upstream barrier to walleye), we think we have a working idea of the genetic diversity and the stock distinctness.

 

 

 

Although some walleye move seasonally between the lake and river, and some can be found in the river year-round, this probably does NOT represent two genetically distinct groups. Based on our tagging studies, a walleye can come in from the lake, reside in the river for 2-3 years, and then go back to the lake. In other words, walleye found in the river below Caledonia are probably, essentially one interbreeding group. We consider those in the river and those that move back to the lake as one group.

 

 

 

As you know, movement of walleye (and walleye genes) is not completely un-restricted because of the dam at Dunnville. In its absence, more walleye would obviously move upstream, but there would probably be more downstream movement as well. Upstream movement varies annually and depends on the fluctuating efficiency of the fishway as well as the efforts of the clubs/MNR/GRCA etc each spring to manually move fish up. Downstream movement also varies depending on flows and on how inhospitable the river becomes to walleye during the summer. Poor summer conditions (low oxygen and very high temperatures) related to HIGH nutrient pollution (farm runoff and urban water pollution control plant inputs) and impoundment behind the dam, shrink the available walleye habitat to varying degrees and probably influence movement out to the lake as well. Unrestricted movement above and below Dunnville would be advantageous for the genetic diversity of the group as well as for the size of the population (which would probably increase).

 

 

 

To make a long story short, downstream of Caledonia, walleye are probably not either a “river fish” or a “migratory lake fish” as they will probably switch strategies at some point during their lifespan depending on population size, harsh summer conditions, and ability to access above Dunnville. The degree to which their colouration is different DOES probably indicate the length of time spent in each environment (i.e. the darker lake vs. the lighter river)

 

 

 

Those that move out to the lake mix with walleye which originated from a number of spawning areas around Lake Erie. In the eastern basin in the summer, we can find fish which hatched in Ohio Rivers (e.g. Maumee), on western basin shoals (Ontario and US), on shoals in New York (Dunkirk) etc. Within this mixture, Grand River walleye stand out genetically. They are VERY distinct from other walleye using Lake Erie during the summer.

 

 

 

I’ve rambled for a bit here – PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I’VE NOT ANSWERED YOUR QUESETION OR IF YOU WANT ANYTHING CLARIFIED.

 

 

 

Regarding the Sanctuary at Colborne.

 

The sanctuary should be marked with buoys.

 

It is my understanding that everything inside either of the breakwalls is included (i.e. the ‘whole big bay” is included).

 

HOWEVER I will have to clarify this so stay tuned…

 

 

 

Tom

 

Tom MacDougall

Lake Erie Management Unit

Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources

 

 

 

 

 

 

of course I replied back to Tom with a thank-you for taking the time out of his day to answer my questions, the reply on the bottom reffered to another post in which I was also trying to help clarify the regs regarding the closed sanctuary in Port Colbourne this time of year and as you can see by his response to me, he will keep me posted with anyhting he finds out.

 

I think this was great that he took the time out to answer some of my questions, so I thought I would share this with the board as the question about Grand River run walleye popped up here.

 

I hope this help out

Edited June 24, 2008 by jwl

[jwl]

BUMP...for the person who started this thread so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle

[jeff24]

Wow. That's great. Thanks JWL. Your connection is greatly appreciated. What a textbook example of a great fishing board with dedicated members.

Thanks again guys!

Jeff

[jwl]

no problem, I hope that helped answer your questions about this and may have also helped other board members learn a bit more about this as well. The learning tools are at hand for anyone who cares to use them,being on the exec committee for a conservation club, and getting out there and volunteering the last couple years with the MNR has been a great learning tool for me, and has also helped open up a few contacts for me related to this as well, and I am happy to be able to share info like this along the way. There is way more to a good fishing forum than just sharing a few pics of the big one of the day

Edited June 25, 2008 by jwl

[fishing]

Quote "Walleye (Sander vitreus) from the Grand River (Ontario) are recognized as genetically and physiologically distinct from other Lake Erie stocks. The low abundance of these walleye in the early 1980s triggered rehabilitation efforts that included intensive research, transfers of walleye from the Thames River (Ontario), supplemental stocking from local hatcheries, construction of a fishway, and creation of additional spawning habitat. Walleye migrating from Lake Erie are currently hindered from reaching 90% of potential riverine spawning habitat by a dam 7 km upstream. Although increased walleye catch rates were reported following construction of a fishway in 1995, recent assessment has shown that access is still severely restrained. Catch rates of young-of-the-year walleye during fall surveys have increased notably since 1999, coincident with direct transfers of mature adults over the barrier. Recent successful year classes have contributed to a population dominated by young (< 5 y) fish. Genetic analyses show that fish culture contributed between 3% and 25% to five recent year classes of Grand River walleye. Facilitating access to spawning habitat above the Dunnville dam may be the most effective way to increase the productivity of this stock, with consequent strengthening of walleye fisheries and the fish community in the eastern basin of Lake Erie."

Journal of Great Lakes Research, pp. 103-117 (2007)

Walleye in the Grand River, Ontario: an Overview of Rehabilitation Efforts, Their Effectiveness, and Implications for Eastern Lake Erie Fisheries

Thomas M. MacDougall*, Chris C. Wilson, Lori M. Richardson, Mike Lavender, and Phil A. Ryan

Edited June 26, 2008 by fishing

[jwl]

thanks for the further input fishing, the info you have posted is from studies related to the type of volunteer work i have been helping with in the spring. The fishladder has not been functional for the last 2 seasons and requires alot of time and money to fix..some of the local clubs have helped to add spwaning habitat over the last few years, and with the tagging efforts i help with in the spring, we manually transplant fish above the dam

[sonny]

great topic and great to hear from a professional on the subject!! Hope you invited him to join our little group!!

[jwl]

I really appreciate the way Tom took some time out of his day to email me back some answers to this question and also taking time to confer with some collegues in regards to the sancturary areas in Gravelly Bay.

 

I helped with some volunteer work for Tom in spring of 2007 and a few others as well, they are really a great bunch of people and I am glad to help that crew out in the spring, it's not all fun, it's not all perfect weather,rainbows and roses, but it is a great feeling knowing that I am doing a small part to give back to a sport I love and value

 

The MNR will not really actively participate on a fishing forum, but in general are more than happy to try and answer any questions that may be brought up to them and relayed back to the board such as this one.

 

Also as a direct result of people who care about our fisheries and the MNR tips line there has been 1 or 2 new CO's added to the crew here around the Greater Niagara Area..and it's people like us who have influenced this

[spyder3g]

I got 3 walleyes with tags from Grand in Caledonia area. Two of them were small (450 - 600 gr) and I released them with those jaw tags back in the water. Another one was not bad 1.3kg and I took it. I keep this tag. It looks like a black soft metal ring with some numbers. Where can I call (e-mail) to report about the fish tag?

[jwl]

check your PM's, I will message you a contact name to send your enquiries too.

 

They will send you some pretty cool info on the fish..like where it was first captured,sex, size when it was captured ect.

 

The reason these jaw tags are put on the fish is for easy "angler identification" and is a vital part of thier studies on the population of walleye on the Grand.

 

 

any feedback you might have to share about this would be great, I would love to see what they have to say as I am directly involved each spring with the walleye project on the Grand and one of the people directly responsible for that fish you caught making it up to Caledonia

Edited June 26, 2008 by jwl

[LeXXington]

Excellent information there Guys,

 

I will be on the river this weekend too Weather dependant of course

[keepinitreel]

there are some 'resident walleye" in the Grand, mainly it's a run from the lake that comes in there to spawn in the spring. I do volunteer work with the MNR in the spring. The MNR electroshocks the water and we follow behind in a catch boat netting up the walleye to be processed(jaw taggged,PIT tagged,measured,scale samples for DNA testing, sex determined if applicable, and collect brood stock for a local stocking program). The tagged fish are then relocated, brood stock collected goes to a local small walleye hatchery project. We then get the fry and raise them in a rearing pond where then after about 6-8 weeks the small fry get netted out of the pond and then get stocked into a different body of water. The reason for this is that these fish that migrate into the Grand River are best suited as brood stock for this project becasue they are genetically adapted to live in the shallower, muddy waters, and thus best suited genetically to live where we stock them.

 

If anyone from the board ever catches one of these fish with the jaw tag(put in place for easy anglercaught fish identification) they can call the numbers into the MNR and you will get the complete history on that fish for example, when it first tagged, sex ect.

 

My son's friend caught a 22" walleye last weekend that was tagged above the dunnville dam. i called it in and they are sending me a certificate to give to him. it was his first walleye and he is 11 years old hopefully he is now hooked on fishing now...