Guest Johnny Bass Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 That and the fact that global warming and global cooling have been going on since earth existed, makes it ridiculous to think we're causing it. Time will tell. Yes they have, but as Scuro pointed out, not at this rate.....Ridiculous to think we are causing it? We are definately contributing to it if not directly responsible for it. Time has already told the story. The arctic is melting at an alarming rate and natural disasters are on the rise. Just to name few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowboat Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Johnny Bass I agree with what you are saying here is some more supporting evidence in your favor. http://news.channels.aolsvc.aol.ca/news/ar...022081509990003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleM Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Lundboy has provided some very cool reading, thank you! Very interesting debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lundboy Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) I guess this is directed at me..... My so called memoirs are supported by scientific data. Yes there are lots of so called facts, supporting both sides. Well, I am debating my position and my facts are backed by logic. If you believe that my facts are not? Show me your logic? Show me your proof? Chances are I will be able to discredit it. And chances are you will not be able to discredit mine, which they have still yet to be answered.(In regards to the acid rain post and CO2 emissions). I know the real world is not black and white. And I possess a very big shovel..... Hmmm.... Now you've gone and done it, You've sucked me back into this thread! Some people can never have their questions answered to their satisfaction. So I guess you are correct they have still to be answered... and forever will... So in the spirit of giving you an answer and hopefully helping others to think for themselves here goes: A good portion of the 2500 scientists that the UN reported (the report called the Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change) earlier this year, as providing their scientific opinion in favor of the man made (read Al Gore made, yes the same guy that invented the Internet) global warming, have publicly come forward and said that they do not agree with the report findings and had their names used without their permission. One has went as far as to threaten to sue the UN to have his name removed (I will get his name and post it). http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financi...d1-5c755457a8af Many many very credible scientists have stated that they disagree with the anthropogenic global warming theory and offer a lot of proof that this is a solar system wide phenomenon including some very prominent Canadians. Of course it would be very easy to accuse these academics of being on the "Big Oil" payroll without any proof whatsoever as to that fact, dismissing their professional opinions entirely. http://www.climatechangeissues.com/cci-refute.php http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global...ming073107m.htm http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/l...73-9cedae122bd1 http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/ar...92-fc37d99cbac3 http://newsbusters.org/node/13731 http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...8&Issue_id= http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295 http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0605/S00001.htm http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/McLean/D...bal_Warming.pdf What I'm trying to do here is get people to open their minds. Think for themselves. Greed plays a powerful roll in getting you to buy into the GW crises. Does anyone really believe that a global tax paid to the UN will "fix" global warming? It won't, it will only go into some obscenely rich elitist's pocket and we will do without whilst their lifestyle goes unhindered. Does anyone want to be dictated to about how big their house can be, or how much heat they can have, or how many children they can have, or that they can't eat meat, or that they can only work at certain jobs, or that they can only have electricity for 4 hours a day, or that they can only have a liter of water a day, or to be surveiled and micro managed every minute of their life, or worse yet chipped and stopped at check points if you are allowed and can afford to travel? Or how about only allowing you to live until 30? Because it's already started, most of what I just listed above. Total control of everything you do. Giving up everything you have, and everything you enjoy (I don't know about you, but I like fishing). It has very little to do with "saving the earth". It's like George Carlin says: "Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun? The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice age. And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet... the planet... the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!" http://gospelofreason.wordpress.com/2007/0...planet-is-fine/ There is no evidence to suggest that 4500 years ago the ice caps didn't recede at the same or quicker rate than they are now. Ice core samples can't tell that. And there wasn't satellites or people taking pictures of the arctic back then. It's all based on "Scientific Guesses" just like dinosaurs had green skin. If you do not look, you cannot see. Edited October 22, 2007 by lundboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lundboy Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) Hijacked or is it damage control? They see their is a problem and this problem is affecting their pocketbooks, through Insurances.... So when they lose money one way, they make it another way. Man made Co2 is part of the cycle?Did you not read the entire thread? And the information I provide on Acid rain? Here is another fact. Pollution from the combustion of fossil fuels produce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury and other pollutants. (pollution from fossil fuels is blamed for 24,000 early deaths each year in the U.S. alone. I dont think we can say the same about natural CO2s. Plants crave man made CO2? I can see why so many plants are nurtured by acid rain. CO2 may be a friend but man made polution is not. Yes and water polution wont kill our fish, because it is natural and the fish in Lake Ontario are ok to eat. NOT! I actually have taken the time to research and dont agree with you in regards to the effects of polution. Interesting reads. Though I am pretty sure there is and has been more than 500,000,000 people on this planet for quite some time. So I guess they are failing? Now you are getting warmer(PNAC)...... And have you found out what these elite groups all have in common yet? yes mass manipulation is real and is working well in America today....Goebbels was another great example of this in Nazi Germany..... they say if you repeat a lie enough times? People will believe it to be truth. This is a fact...... There is no doubt I can prove that humans are causing the Global warming phenomona. But I know that if I post scientific data you will probably claim it is lies and a conspiracy. Obviously the lie thing works huh? It's funny you should take exception to my post when it wasn't directed at you. (Unless you are Scuro). er... Ok it was directed at you. Are you saying there is a difference between "Natural" and man made CO2? I don't see the IPCC attacking NO2 or CO or H2SO4 or H2S or any other chemical concoction being pumped into the air that are TRUE greenhouse pollutants. No, they specifically target CO2, a life byproduct in mammals, and a life sustaining gas to plants. All the other gases mentioned are highly toxic to life, and would account for a lot of early respiratory deaths a year. Just something else that makes you go hmmm huh? I have avidly read the entire thread, and the links about acid rain. I haven't once refuted that any of it exists. Matter of fact I haven't got a beef about acid rain being man made. Just look at the brown NO2 cloud hanging over TO on any given day and you will know for sure that it's going to change rain PH. PNAC is just a funny bunch of puppets called "The NeoCons". Agenda21 and the Bilderberg Group, David Rockefeller and his clan, and the Rothschildes are the real threat. Since you didn't comment on any of the other "Official Documents" I gave links to, and you only recognised PNAC, does that mean that you aren't as researched as you claim to be? Obviously PNAC was warm to you, but just the tip of the Iceberg to me. And that iceberg isn't melting. I don't consider any well researched data be it scientific or anecdotal to be lies or conspiracy until I find evidence to the contrary. I'm sorry I mistook you for a global warming advocate when really you are a PHD in research and world history, oops and I forgot you hold a masters in sociology and atmospheric studies, with probably at least a bachelors in business. I on the other hand, do not hold any such credentials, I have not been "indoctrinated" by the system. I do think I have a pretty good handle on what the elite of this planet are up to, and global warming isn't about them just making more money, it is about them taking everything you own and controlling everything you do, and it is about eradicating a huge part of the population to do it. They haven't caused the global warming they are just using a natural solar system wide cycle to their advantage. Do you actually believe that the elites need or want more money? Not at all, it's now a TOTAL control thing. BTW Bill Gates' money is pocket change to these people. If you don't see it, so what? I know what I know (and I know how I know it), and time will show who's right. we might even live through it you and I. One thing for sure, you can out fish me, and I respect you for that. That's it for me, I'm now out of this thread for good, as I said before... Believe what you want. Edited October 22, 2007 by lundboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I just wish you guys could put this much passion into your fishing reports ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleM Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Wayne, theres enough of them fishing folk around here for that..... I actually enjoy reading this LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 (edited) Hmmm.... Now you've gone and done it, You've sucked me back into this thread! Some people can never have their questions answered to their satisfaction. So I guess you are correct they have still to be answered... and forever will... So in the spirit of giving you an answer and hopefully helping others to think for themselves here goes: A good portion of the 2500 scientists that the UN reported (the report called the Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change) earlier this year, as providing their scientific opinion in favor of the man made (read Al Gore made, yes the same guy that invented the Internet) global warming, have publicly come forward and said that they do not agree with the report findings and had their names used without their permission. One has went as far as to threaten to sue the UN to have his name removed (I will get his name and post it). http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financi...d1-5c755457a8af Many many very credible scientists have stated that they disagree with the anthropogenic global warming theory and offer a lot of proof that this is a solar system wide phenomenon including some very prominent Canadians. Of course it would be very easy to accuse these academics of being on the "Big Oil" payroll without any proof whatsoever as to that fact, dismissing their professional opinions entirely. http://www.climatechangeissues.com/cci-refute.php http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global...ming073107m.htm http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/l...73-9cedae122bd1 http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/ar...92-fc37d99cbac3 http://newsbusters.org/node/13731 http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...8&Issue_id= http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295 http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0605/S00001.htm http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/McLean/D...bal_Warming.pdf What I'm trying to do here is get people to open their minds. Think for themselves. Greed plays a powerful roll in getting you to buy into the GW crises. Does anyone really believe that a global tax paid to the UN will "fix" global warming? It won't, it will only go into some obscenely rich elitist's pocket and we will do without whilst their lifestyle goes unhindered. Does anyone want to be dictated to about how big their house can be, or how much heat they can have, or how many children they can have, or that they can't eat meat, or that they can only work at certain jobs, or that they can only have electricity for 4 hours a day, or that they can only have a liter of water a day, or to be surveiled and micro managed every minute of their life, or worse yet chipped and stopped at check points if you are allowed and can afford to travel? Or how about only allowing you to live until 30? Because it's already started, most of what I just listed above. Total control of everything you do. Giving up everything you have, and everything you enjoy (I don't know about you, but I like fishing). It has very little to do with "saving the earth". It's like George Carlin says: "Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun? The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice age. And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet... the planet... the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!" http://gospelofreason.wordpress.com/2007/0...planet-is-fine/ There is no evidence to suggest that 4500 years ago the ice caps didn't recede at the same or quicker rate than they are now. Ice core samples can't tell that. And there wasn't satellites or people taking pictures of the arctic back then. It's all based on "Scientific Guesses" just like dinosaurs had green skin. If you do not look, you cannot see. -Al Gore had nothing to do with the formation of the Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change which formed in 1988. It has posted four assessment reports, the first one was in 1990. Gore wasn't speaking publicly about this issue then. Both dates are before he was even the vice-president. The last assessment in 2007 stated;"Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values over the past 650,000 years". -No the world won't become another Venus because of global warming. Simply if the models are true the most notable change will be radically different weather as we know it and a rise in sea levels that should put some cities like New York under several ft of water. Why radically different weather? Without a polar ice cap you won't have arctic air masses sweeping down from the north until the water over the pole freezes solid first. Global warming would predict that with less ice covering the arctic ocean, fall and early winter temperature averages should rise significantly in our region. With the huge melt of arctic sea ice last summer I'd take a bet that fall temperatures will be warmer this year. This is a trend that should continue. -When consensus statements are made critics usually attack anything but the issue. This time we hear about the scientists tricked into lending their name to the statement and the bucket load of scientists who believe we are going through solar system warming cycle. Can they not simply stick to the facts and if they believe their position to be right form a bigger consensus? The size and quality of scientists within a consensus does matter. -Only the loony Neocons of the US could come up with such a dopy theory that global warming is a fake issue created so that the UN can collect taxes from the world to be used by UN bureaucrats to control the world. Only those true US patriots and all those who love freedom can save us! Look out. Kofi Annan is coming to confiscate your handgun. The US hates the UN...and doesn't even pay most of it's dues. The UN is seen as being a feckless body. The EU has difficulty staying together, and free trade is shaky also...this in the developed northern countries. Yet all of Asia, Africa, the Americas, and Europe is supposed to be ruled by one world body that has authority over everything? Open your eyes, it ain't going happen in our lifetime. Edited October 22, 2007 by scuro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holdfast Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Hey I just started a new job. Im now the proud employee in the Sanitation Dept. Daughter wanted a drive to school so Im showed up with the Garbage truck. Woo Hoo she RAN to school. My part for cutting pollution and global warming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Gotta admit, I'm loving the global warming, it's been a beautiful fall so far. And if we get another winter like last year, I'll be doing more than my part on cutting back. I only used half of a tank of oil to heat my house last year, as oppose to 1 1/2 to 2 tanks the previous years. Living up north only has advantages for us, so bring on the global warming. As for the cause of it, I agree to disagree, I haven't seen any proof man is causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Bass Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Hmmm.... Now you've gone and done it, You've sucked me back into this thread! Some people can never have their questions answered to their satisfaction. So I guess you are correct they have still to be answered... and forever will... So in the spirit of giving you an answer and hopefully helping others to think for themselves here goes: A good portion of the 2500 scientists that the UN reported (the report called the Intergovernmental Panel On Climate Change) earlier this year, as providing their scientific opinion in favor of the man made (read Al Gore made, yes the same guy that invented the Internet) global warming, have publicly come forward and said that they do not agree with the report findings and had their names used without their permission. One has went as far as to threaten to sue the UN to have his name removed (I will get his name and post it). http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financi...d1-5c755457a8af This just proves one thing. Something that I have already stated. Al Gore's video itself is filled with some inaccuracies and is set up to discredit the pro enviornmentalists. It does not state that the UN scientists do not believe humans are responsible for global warming, because they still believe that and I can supply articles of my own. I would have to look up every url address though and it would take time because I know of 50+ articles that support my beliefs. The origional source is Reuters. http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/sgw_read....d=1111163152006 Here is one saying the Neocons tried to shut them up. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-...cientists_x.htm Here is another one. The origional source is Agence France-Presse. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exe...ew.cgi/48/17314 Here is another heading. I will post part of the Article and you google the rest. Australian scientists say they were silenced on climate change SYDNEY (AFP) - Three scientists who worked at the Australian science agency say they were pressured to keep their views on climate change to themselves to avoid clashing with government policy. The government has denied muzzling the scientists, whose claims follow those of a top NASA scientist who last month accused the administration of US President George W. Bush of trying to silence him. Here is another. google the rest.. July 11, 2006 at 15:33:47 Brokaw AND Global Warming Attacked by Gov Paid Media Attack Artist Tell A Friend by Rob Kall http://www.opednews.com In a double hitter, a government paid professional right wing political media hit man has attacked another journalistic leader AND the science of global warming. Outrageously, this is being done under the letterhead of the Senate committee on the Environment and Public Works, under the name of Senator James Imhof, majority chairman of the committee. First Dan Rather, then the New York Times, now Tom Brokaw. The right wing sleaze attack machine is hard at work, aggressively working at destroying the remaining mainstream journalists and media with the courage to continue to tell the truth and confront the massive flood of lies erupting like explosive diarhea from the Bush lie machine. I have LOTS more. Shall I go on? The Elites are not behind the Global warming Phenomina. They are trying to silence it. Here is one supporting that the Media(FOX News) actually covers up Global Warming proof. How important is global warming in Maine? Not important enough for local television. Michael Palmer, the general manager of television stations WVII and WFVX, ABC and Fox affiliates in Bangor, has told his joint staff of nine men and women that when "Bar Harbor is underwater, then we can do global warming stories." Many many very credible scientists have stated that they disagree with the anthropogenic global warming theory and offer a lot of proof that this is a solar system wide phenomenon including some very prominent Canadians. Of course it would be very easy to accuse these academics of being on the "Big Oil" payroll without any proof whatsoever as to that fact, dismissing their professional opinions entirely. Yes I have heard of the theory on how Mars temperatures are up.lol And there are many many more credible scientists that say humans are the cause. http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=55080 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5303574.stm Yet you claim the ones that disagree with your positions are on the NewWorldOrder payroll.LOL http://www.climatechangeissues.com/cci-refute.phphttp://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global...ming073107m.htm http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/l...73-9cedae122bd1 http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/ar...92-fc37d99cbac3 http://newsbusters.org/node/13731 http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...8&Issue_id= http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295 http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0605/S00001.htm http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/McLean/D...bal_Warming.pdf The first two articles you submitted stated greenland and general area is not melting. Well forgive me if I dont believe the US senate.lol And why have all the Eskimos been complaining that the ice is melting and their way of life is being threatened? I have seen footage and it is indeed melting. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/17/...D8FQT0LO0.shtml You have articles and I have seen actual photos and testimonies from inhabitants of the region. Hmmmm, who should I believe? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15003895/ One artical you submitted states cosmic rays are contributing to global warming? Even so.Could it be that polution and not CO2 is destroying our Van Allen Radiation belt?That scientists have been saying for years is what protects our earth from the sun's rays? What I'm trying to do here is get people to open their minds. Think for themselves. Greed plays a powerful roll in getting you to buy into the GW crises. Does anyone really believe that a global tax paid to the UN will "fix" global warming? It won't, it will only go into some obscenely rich elitist's pocket and we will do without whilst their lifestyle goes unhindered. And greed doesn't play a big part of trying to discredit it? I think its you that has to open your eyes. If the tax goes to paying to cutting down emissions than that is fine, but I believe they have enough money to do so them selves but want to spend our money also. Does anyone want to be dictated to about how big their house can be, or how much heat they can have, or how many children they can have, or that they can't eat meat, or that they can only work at certain jobs, or that they can only have electricity for 4 hours a day, or that they can only have a liter of water a day, or to be surveiled and micro managed every minute of their life, or worse yet chipped and stopped at check points if you are allowed and can afford to travel? Or how about only allowing you to live until 30? That is why new energy alternatives should be seeked. They already control the energy sectors and proces of energy have trippled in the last decade. Do you know Americans pay cheaper than us for OUR OWN Natural gas? Because it's already started, most of what I just listed above. Total control of everything you do. Giving up everything you have, and everything you enjoy (I don't know about you, but I like fishing). It has very little to do with "saving the earth". It's like George Carlin says:"Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun? Well if they keep polluting there will be no fish to catch. Are we a threat? Do you know how much damage is donme to our atmosphere through Pollution and the use of nuclear weapons? And you think we are not a threat to the earth? Wake up... The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles, hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice age. And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet... the planet... the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!" Yes the planet has been through alot worse than us and many species DID NOT survive. Most of the so called worse events were affected by events outside the earth, not from within. http://gospelofreason.wordpress.com/2007/0...planet-is-fine/ Now your posting blogs to support your position? There is no evidence to suggest that 4500 years ago the ice caps didn't recede at the same or quicker rate than they are now. Ice core samples can't tell that. And there wasn't satellites or people taking pictures of the arctic back then. It's all based on "Scientific Guesses" just like dinosaurs had green skin. If you do not look, you cannot see. Again, if they did recede as quick as they are doing today, it was not caused by anything within the earth's atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Bass Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Obviously the lie thing works huh? It does seem so. It's funny you should take exception to my post when it wasn't directed at you. (Unless you are Scuro). er... Ok it was directed at you. Are you saying there is a difference between "Natural" and man made CO2? Yes. You can bet your life on it. One is poison and causes things like acid rain and the other is natural. Just as I have pointed out there are 2 types of Cholesterol in the body. One natural and one not. Guess which one is harmful to our bodies and which one is not? I don't see the IPCC attacking NO2 or CO or H2SO4 or H2S or any other chemical concoction being pumped into the air that are TRUE greenhouse pollutants. No, they specifically target CO2, a life byproduct in mammals, and a life sustaining gas to plants. All the other gases mentioned are highly toxic to life, and would account for a lot of early respiratory deaths a year. Just something else that makes you go hmmm huh? Really? Here is some reading up for you to do and who made the ICC the final authority on Climate? Here is some interesting read. A December 20, 1995, Reuters report quoted British scientist Keith Shine, one of IPCC's lead authors, discussing the Policymakers' Summary. He said: "We produce a draft, and then the policymakers go through it line by line and change the way it is presented.... It's peculiar that they have the final say in what goes into a scientists' report". It is not clear, in this case, whether Shine was complaining that the report had been changed to be more skeptical, or less, or something else entirely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC I have avidly read the entire thread, and the links about acid rain. I haven't once refuted that any of it exists. Matter of fact I haven't got a beef about acid rain being man made. Just look at the brown NO2 cloud hanging over TO on any given day and you will know for sure that it's going to change rain PH. Then how can you say that man made polution is the same as natural CO2 emissions? PNAC is just a funny bunch of puppets called "The NeoCons". Agenda21 and the Bilderberg Group, David Rockefeller and his clan, and the Rothschildes are the real threat. Since you didn't comment on any of the other "Official Documents" I gave links to, and you only recognised PNAC, does that mean that you aren't as researched as you claim to be? Obviously PNAC was warm to you, but just the tip of the Iceberg to me. And that iceberg isn't melting. And you are really, really warm with the mention of the Rothchilds. No I did read it but know the rest to be more puppets of bigger players. PNAC is more directly involved with what is going on today. I don't consider any well researched data be it scientific or anecdotal to be lies or conspiracy until I find evidence to the contrary. I too.I also way it with logic. I'm sorry I mistook you for a global warming advocate when really you are a PHD in research and world history, oops and I forgot you hold a masters in sociology and atmospheric studies, with probably at least a bachelors in business. I am merely someone who cares about our enviornment and have done my homework. I on the other hand, do not hold any such credentials, I have not been "indoctrinated" by the system. Neither have I. I do think I have a pretty good handle on what the elite of this planet are up to, and global warming isn't about them just making more money, it is about them taking everything you own and controlling everything you do, and it is about eradicating a huge part of the population to do it. They haven't caused the global warming they are just using a natural solar system wide cycle to their advantage. Do you actually believe that the elites need or want more money? Not at all, it's now a TOTAL control thing. BTW Bill Gates' money is pocket change to these people. If you don't see it, so what? I know what I know (and I know how I know it), and time will show who's right. we might even live through it you and I. Do you think they need global warming for that?lol They can already take everything you own(individually) and control what most people do and think. I believe the elites are trying to take over and have been succesful in doing so up to know and that enviornmentalists threaten their way of life. I agree that their globalization is part of this agenda. Yes I believe the elites actually need and want more money. Yes. Do you think billionares stop at 100 million? And I agree Bill Gates is no where near the richest man in the world and he wouldn't have gotten so far if they didn't already own him. One thing for sure, you can out fish me, and I respect you for that. That's it for me, I'm now out of this thread for good, as I said before... Believe what you want. Gee a compliment. Thanks! Keep digging but remember.... There is misinformation everywhere. Especially on the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Bass Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I just wish you guys could put this much passion into your fishing reports ! I for one try too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I just wish you guys could put this much passion into your fishing reports ! I do put more passion into my fishing reports. You get the sense that some would like to see this thread end, I get that...if I am taking the trouble to put together a major fishing story I don't want to compete with Al Goregasm or "Farmer shoots pet dog". I was asking for the end of this thread about a hundred posts ago. If you want to let political threads live on this forum then basically you should expect this. Politics does bring out passion in people because you are dealing with huge issues. Me personally...I can't stand it when I see disinformation in a public forum without the record being set straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lundboy Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) Johnnybass, CO2 is CO2. It doesn't matter if it's man made or "Natural" as you put it. There is no distinction. The only distinction is what you have created on your own. I challenge you to show the world one single scientific document that can make a distinction between the two that YOU have decided exists. If you want to say that most man made sources of CO2 are also commonly known to produce H2S, NO2, N03, CH4, Mercury, Lead etc. Then fine. But don't try to blow out some nonsense to the public in general about two forms of CO2 and then use the analogy that it's like cholesterol. Whether one of CO2s Pi electrons will go into an excited state in the atmosphere has no bearing on whether it's man made or natural, it will happen to both. "Acid rain" can be made from either. It's called carbonic acid. Grade 10 Chemistry will tell you that, they get you to blow through a straw into a beaker of distilled water until you nearly pass out. Then they get you to test the ph of the water. Guess what... It's carbolic acid and it acidic! Hmmm from natural CO2 who-da thunk it! Must mean exhaling is man made C02 then. In actual fact the majority of acid rain is caused by sulphates (H2S) & Nitrates (NO3) in the atmosphere. CO2 has a role sure, but not nearly as much as the others. Just look at the damage at Sudbury to this day, such high concentrations of sulphates in the lakes and soils that they were dumping calcium carbonate (CaCO3) into the lakes for years to bring up the PH (which incidentally causes a release of CO2). They also had to drop millions of Birch seedlings from helicopters to reforest the place. They used birch because it likes acidic soil. ""Clean" or unpolluted rain has a slightly acidic pH of 5.6, because carbon dioxide and water in the air react together to form carbonic acid, a weak acid. The extra acidity in rain comes from the reaction of air pollutants, primarily sulfur oxides and nitrogen oxides, with water in the air to form strong acids (like sulfuric and nitric acid). The main sources of these pollutants are vehicles and industrial and power-generating plants." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rain If you have found docs that indicate this then whomever published it is trying to blur the line so as to associate the very breath you exhale as being a dangerous pollutant and that's a very slippery slope. Come to think of it.... It would be right up the alley of the elite, and you have fallen for it. So we are arguing the same side. I have not ever denied that GW exists OR that the elite created it, simply that they have used it for their own purposes. They aren't afraid of it, they push it and embrace it google David Mayer de Rothschild. Likewise I have never said acid rain doesn't exist, I have merely tried to point out that you are over-reaching and sensationalizing it. Which is what environmentalists are prone to do. Would you sign a petition to ban the chemical diHydrogen Monoxide (DHMO), which is found is reservoirs, lakes, rivers worldwide and is known to be used in the making of pesticides, explosives, rocket fuels, nuclear fuel? Health and environmental effects are as follows: * Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities. * Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage. * Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects. * DHMO is a major component of acid rain. * Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns. * Contributes to soil erosion. * Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals. * Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits. * Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions. * Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks. * Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S. * Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect. 90% of the environmentalists that signed the petition agreed that it is a horrible chemical pollutant that needs to be banned. They signed a petition without even asking any questions about the chemical. I would bet that after you watched the video you felt kinda weird huh? C'mon You can admit it, but I know you'll deny it. Of course I also know YOU would ask questions before supporting anything. But you see how easy it is to be misled when one is passionate? I will not "debate" you anymore on this since it is obvious it is going nowhere and many have been entertained, if not informed. I have my point of view which I can back 100% with Freedom of Information Act released official documents, by MSM articles floating the popularity of new policies and also letting the cat out of the bag, Alternative Media investigative research and yes even blogs etc., and you have yours which you proclaim you can back 1010%. I'm sure we both are in the same stands watching the same game, but each of us only see the opposite team. The game is so subtle and so old and so incremental that MOST people will never see it. Until it's too late. And we are in the 9th inning bases loaded right now. Trust me, TRUST ME (Better yet look at the proof). GW is the ultimate distraction. It is what will be our downfall if we don't wake up! In any case, we are not experts, we only know what we are allowed to know. I am curious to find out just how much you know about the Elite, their plans, how global warming does fit their agenda etc. OFC is not the forum though. Please feel free to forward your thoughts etc. to me at [email protected] , as I said I am more than willing to entertain any scientific or anecdotal info. Please though, try to stick to the Elite connection, since you have more than covered your GW point of view. For other members that have expressed interest, appreciation and understanding of what I have put forth, feel free to contact me at the above email with questions or thoughts or requests for some of the info I have on hand. Be forewarned though it will change your life, and is quite unnerving. BTW JB, a real living-breathing Elite person was someone I did a lot of work for a few years ago, we keep in touch every now and then to discuss certain news items. He hosted a radio show in T.O. a while back (he ruffled some feathers about the North American Union, and Paul Martin had his show pulled), he still has a web site. He is a real VERIFIABLE source (although eccentric), and has been working AGAINST the NWO for many years. He saved my butt a few times with info that no one that isn't on the inside would have had, and I respect the knowledge he has. If anyone is interested, there is a radio show on M-T 11PM CFRB 1010AM that has basically replaced my friend's show. It's the Richard Syrett Show. So that's it. No really this time. This is it. JB & Scura talk amongst yourselves, someday you will get what I was saying when you get over trying to prove you are absolutely positively right and the epitome of environmentalism, or you are standing in line to get your chip from Nick Rockefeller. Edited October 23, 2007 by lundboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lundboy Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) I do put more passion into my fishing reports. You get the sense that some would like to see this thread end, I get that...if I am taking the trouble to put together a major fishing story I don't want to compete with Al Goregasm or "Farmer shoots pet dog". I was asking for the end of this thread about a hundred posts ago. If you want to let political threads live on this forum then basically you should expect this. Politics does bring out passion in people because you are dealing with huge issues. Me personally...I can't stand it when I see disinformation in a public forum without the record being set straight. No comment. Edited October 23, 2007 by lundboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 If you want to let political threads live on this forum then basically you should expect this. Politics does bring out passion in people because you are dealing with huge issues. Me personally...I can't stand it when I see disinformation in a public forum without the record being set straight. Political threads aren't allowed on this forum..as matter of fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lundboy Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Political threads aren't allowed on this forum..as matter of fact. Irishfield, I just took a look at "The Rules". I don't see any reference to political threads made. Are these rules incomplete? If there is a rule stating this, I apologise and will not participate in political threads going forward. LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 Hey don't let me stop you... I'm not a mod of this madness...nor do I wish to be ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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